< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Jun-28-08|| ||offtherook: <how <do> you beat a 2600+ who has White, appears to have no other aim than to avoid losing, and knows how to do it?>
If I knew that, I wouldn't be a patzer. Frankly, I'd be happy to pull a draw against a 2600+, and I suspect that most of the people bashing Kramnik so vociferously wouldn't be able to draw the games he draws, much less reproduce his wins.|
|Jun-28-08|| ||ajile: <Eyal>
ya too much excitment here for me too.
|Jun-28-08|| ||tal lover: i dont think Ivanchuk, Carlsen or especially Morozevich would go to a draw this fast as Kramnik goes in this game. Even if the opponnent is white and a 2600+. Kramnik needs balls|
|Jun-28-08|| ||square dance: again, im going to keep pointing out the stupidity of posts like <tal lover>'s. btw, wasnt tal more of a draw master than even kramnik? |
saying the guy who took the title away from kasparov needs balls is stupid. anand couldnt do it. karpov couldnt do it. someone like shirov who is such a brave, fighting player can barely even sit across the board from kasparov. if kramnik doesnt have balls, then who does?
saying the guy who won a must win last game against leko to retain his title needs balls is stupid. you couldnt show up and win that game if you didnt have them.
saying the guy who gave point and color odds to #1 ranked veselin topalov needs balls is, yet again, stupid. even the great fighter, viktor korchnoi, says he wouldnt have continued the match!
i dont know if <tal lover> is entirely stupid, but his statement <Kramnik needs balls> sure was. metaphorically speaking, not only does kramnik in fact have "balls", but i'd guess, based on his resume, that they're pretty sizeable. :-)
|Jun-28-08|| ||Bryce101: lololol. <tal lover> you got shut dowwwwn! lol, great post <square dance> you hit the nail on the head i agree with you 100%.lol--<metaphorically speaking, not only does kramnik in fact have "balls", but i'd guess, based on his resume, that they're pretty sizeable. :-)>
|Jun-28-08|| ||offtherook: <SD> I won't speculate on how "well endowed" Kramnik might be, but I agree that <TL>'s post was pretty dumb. What else was Kramnik supposed to do? At a certain level, if you really want to draw with White, you usually can. Especially since it's not like Kramnik is going to start playing unsound, speculative lines to avoid draws as Black. A draw is better than a loss.|
|Jun-28-08|| ||Hesam7: Kramnik's mistake was that he thought his opponent was not this cowardly.|
It is well known theory that 8.Bb5+ does not achieve anything, White could have easily gone for much sharper play with 8.Rb1. And that would have been very interesting because Kramnik used to kick ass from White side of that variation!
|Jun-28-08|| ||Marmot PFL: Easy draws with black are great. You can save your energy for winning with white.|
|Jun-28-08|| ||samikd: Kramnik played the Grunfeld (is this the first time ? I was really surprised !) so we can't really accuse him for playing for a draw. It was Gustaffson's fault for choosing a drawish line, as <acirce> pointed out. But then he can't be be blamed too much for being happy with a draw against worlds No 2|
|Jun-28-08|| ||notyetagm: <samikd: ... It was Gustaffson's fault for choosing a drawish line, as <acirce> pointed out. But then he can't be be blamed too much for being happy with a draw against worlds No 2>|
Yes, the problem is that they let a 2603-rated player into this "supertournament".
Topalov, on the other hand, almost certainly would not have played a drawish line with the White pieces against the Grunfeld (Topalov vs Shirov, 2007, Topalov vs Shirov, 2008).
|Jun-29-08|| ||Hesam7: <samikd: Kramnik played the Grunfeld (is this the first time ? I was really surprised !) so we can't really accuse him for playing for a draw.>|
Here is what Mig Greengard has to say:
<Vladimir Kramnik played the Grunfeld for the first time in his life in a serious game. (For a minute on ICC Chess.FM GM Nick de Firmian and I were wondering if they live games broadcast had accidentally swapped the names with the Ivanchuk-van Wely game.) Gustafsson didn't press the issue and they agreed a draw just a few moves beyond a game Kramnik played against Svidler with white last year. Was Kramnik hoping for a win with black against the lowest-rated player or was he just messing with Anand's head? If he trots out the Najdorf later in the event we'll know it's the latter.>
|Jun-29-08|| ||cade: Kramnik is rated 185 points higher than this guy and he plays theory to a draw? I don't get it.|
|Jun-29-08|| ||suenteus po 147: This was definitely a smoke screen by Kramnik to keep his actual preparation for his match with Anand under wraps. The interesting thing about the Grunfeld is that it shows Kramnik's interest in playing for something more. From what I've read though in the aftermath, Gustafsson dug deep and pulled a solid equal line out of an otherwise problematic opening.|
|Jun-29-08|| ||cade: No suenteus, this whole game is theory. Kramnik played this exact game (minus the last 2 moves) from the white side last year.|
|Jun-29-08|| ||suenteus po 147: <cade> All the more reason to see it as a means to cover his preparation for the match later this year.|
|Jun-29-08|| ||Hesam7: <cade: Kramnik is rated 185 points higher than this guy and he plays theory to a draw? I don't get it.>|
As I said before with 8.Bb5+ White practically forced a draw.
|Jun-29-08|| ||percyblakeney: <Kramnik's mistake was that he thought his opponent was not this cowardly>|
It's maybe understandable that Gustafsson has nothing against an effortless draw against the big favourite in his first game in these surroundings.
This is Kramnik's 14th Dortmund start, and it's not often he loses in classical chess in the tournament, apart from his illness year 2005 it has only happened once: Adams vs Kramnik, 2000
|Jun-29-08|| ||HSOL: A bit ridiculous blaming a player ranked outside top 100 for being satisfied with a draw against a top 5 player. A bit like blaming Malta for a boring game when they get a 0-0 draw vs Germany in football.|
|Jun-29-08|| ||acirce: <Hesam7> Yes, it would have been extremely interesting to see how Kramnik would have handled the Black side of those critical lines. Mainly, I think he expected 7.Bc4 since that is what Gustafsson always (?) seems to have played earlier. I would of course not call Gustafsson's approach cowardly. It makes good sense to play a safe and drawish line against a much stronger opponent, especially when surprised by the opening choice. I would do the same thing. Some might, of course, have taken the opportunity to make a game with a chess legend like Kramnik a learning experience, but there is no right or wrong here.|
|Jun-29-08|| ||dexterious: <They've repeated Kramnik vs Svidler, 2007, and then continued for 2 more moves before agreeing to the draw. A truly exciting and original game.>|
|Jun-29-08|| ||Hesam7: <acirce: I would of course not call Gustafsson's approach cowardly. It makes good sense to play a safe and drawish line against a much stronger opponent, especially when surprised by the opening choice.>|
You are right, I was intentionally harsh to make the point that the outcome had nothing to do with Kramnik.
|Jun-29-08|| ||tal lover: my post was compulsory deleted... i feel like i cant express my opinions in this site|
|Jun-29-08|| ||square dance: perhaps if you had some opinions worth expressing...|
|Jun-29-08|| ||Akavall: <my post was compulsory deleted>|
Great! Maybe cg.com is stepping up its anti-trolling policy.
|Jun-29-08|| ||DukeAlba: I don't blame Kramnik for getting a draw against Gustafsson....|
I was surprised at the amount of people of people who betted on black to win... considering the fact that gustafsson hasn't lost a match as white in 2 years....
The majority of the people are just upset that they lost money on a match that they thought was supposed to be easy for Kramnik.
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