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| Oct-25-08 | | alicefujimori: <M.D. Wilson><The only man who can judge Kramnik at this very moment is Anand, not a group of ignorant, boring kibitzers.>This logic is wrong. One does not need to be "qualified" to express their personal feelings towards a particular player. Anyway, referring back to this game this is really a game that many players can learn from in terms of a GM thought process. Many amateurs will just keep calculating moves like in situations before 21...Rg6 and before the Rd3+Qd4 plan. But Anand shows how a typcial GMs arrive at these moves. Kramnik's remarks on why he took the perpetual instead of playing the Kh3 plan is also worthy of note. |
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| Oct-25-08 | | M.D. Wilson: Yes, Alice, you can have a personal opinion regarding Kramnik, but when people make churlish statements regarding a player's performance (you know the stuff that gets posted here, surely), it gets pretty boring. Certainly Anand is in a better position to make reasoned, sensible statements regarding his opponent's performance, not anonymous kibitzers. If people want to insult Kramnik, then so be it, but it doesn't do them any favours. |
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Oct-25-08
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click for larger view<Gypsy: <Eyal: <GM Renier Gonzalez: The main poroblem here is that I dont see any promising plan from any player.> Don't you think Ref1 followed by f5 might give something to White? > White has a solid position, spatial advantage, and structural edge into the endgame. It seems to me that White can just play and play, exchange a piece here and there, if appropriate, and the play could thus eventually turn into a real grind... >
<GM Renier Gonzalez: <gypsy> How can white have a space advantage without controling any of the important open files and havign any piece after the 3 rank?> 20.Kh1 Kf8 21.Ref1 Rg6 22.g3 Kg7 23.Rd1 Rxd1+ 24.Nxd1 Kh8 
click for larger view<GM Renier Gonzalez: Qc2!/ with the idea of Rd2> It is now a moote point, but if that came to pass, say 25.Qc2 Rg8 26.Rd2 Qb6 ...,
click for larger viewthat spatial edge of White would have become more transparent,
would it not? |
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| Oct-25-08 | | baptiste187: Any opinions on Kramnik avoiding the catalan this game. |
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| Oct-25-08 | | alicefujimori: <M.D. Wilson>Anand's opinion on Kramnik's performance will certainly carry more weight than an average kibitzer's opinion, but that doesn't mean that they are right or wrong. Performance is a relative thing and different people have different standards on it. It is like a student who frequently scores an A in exams but suddenly gets a B. Some students believes that the A student's performance is "pathetic", while some students will believe that B is still a very good grade. This is all about personal feelings and standards. I personally believe that Kramnik's play in this match is no worse than in his match against Kasparov. The only difference being is that Anand is much better prepared than Kasparov in terms of openings and strategy which allows him to drag Kramnik out of his confort zone and force him to play positions that he doesn't prefer. |
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Oct-25-08
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click for larger view
<Gypsy: <Eyal: <GM Renier Gonzalez: The main poroblem here is that I dont see any promising plan from any player.> Don't you think Ref1 followed by f5 might give something to White? >White has a solid position, spatial advantage, and structural edge into the endgame. It seems to me that White can just play and play, exchange a piece here and there, if appropriate, and the play could thus eventually turn into a real grind... >
<GM Renier Gonzalez: <gypsy> How can white have a space advantage without controling any of the important open files and havign any piece after the 3 rank?> 20.Kh1 Kf8 21.Ref1 Rg6 22.g3 Kg7 23.Rd1 Rxd1+ 24.Nxd1 Kh8 click for larger view
<GM Renier Gonzalez: Qc2!/ with the idea of Rd2> It is now a moote point, but if that came to pass, say 25.Qc2 Rg8 26.Rd2 Qb6 ...,
click for larger view
that spatial edge of White would have become more transparent, would it not?> You know, I was wondering about that the moment it was suggested. After 25.Qc2, can Black play 25....f5? with the idea of 26.exf5 Qd5+ 27.Kg1 Qxf5 28.Qxf5 ef5 and now, if 29.Ne3 then 29...Nd4? |
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| Oct-25-08 | | alicefujimori: <baptiste187><Any opinions on Kramnik avoiding the catalan this game.>Personally, I think Kramnik avoided the Catalan possibly for two reasons: 1) He knows that Anand will be well prepared against it. 2) He is only prepared to play against the Slav and Semi-Slav. |
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| Oct-25-08 | | Eyal: <kamalakanta: After 25.Qc2, can Black play 25....f5? with the idea of 26.exf5 Qd5+ 27.Kg1 Qxf5 28.Qxf5 ef5 and now, if 29.Ne3 then 29...Nd4?> Instead of allowing Black a move like Nd4, White can improve by 29.Rd2! and Black's game would become very passive by having to defend his pawn weakness, e.g. 29...Re6 30.Kf2 Kg7 31.Ne3 Kg6 32.Rd5 Ne7 33.Rd7/d8. Maybe Black can hold this, but I don't think it would have been a good idea to enter such an endgame against Kramnik. |
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| Oct-25-08 | | you vs yourself: <Eyal> Can you take a look at L'Ami's idea posted in the game 7 page? Thanks |
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| Oct-25-08 | | Ulhumbrus: At move 25 Dennis Monokroussos gives 25.Qc2 Rg8 26.Rd2 Qb6 27.Qc3 Kg7 28.Ne3 ; 25.Rf3 Rg8 26.Rd3 Qc4 27.b3 Qc5 28.Qb2. Here is a link to his website: http://chessmind.powerblogs.com/
In the first variation Monokroussos does not say what happens after 28...Rd8. On 29 Ng4 Rxd2 30 Qxd2 Qd4 defends f6 and contests the d file. In the second variation above on 25 Rf3 Rg8 26 Rd3 Monokroussos does not say what happens if Black tries to contest the d file as in the first variation by 26... Qb6 eg 27 Qd2 Rd8. On 28 Rxd8 Qxd8 29 Qxd8 Nxd8 it is possible that this ending is a draw despite Black's doubled f pawn. |
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| Oct-25-08 | | Eyal: <Ulhumbrus: At move 25 Dennis Monokroussos gives 25.Qc2 Rg8 26.Rd2 Qb6 27.Qc3 Kg7 28.Ne3 ; 25.Rf3 Rg8 26.Rd3 Qc4 27.b3 Qc5 28.Qb2 [...] In the second variation above on 25 Rf3 Rg8 26 Rd3 Monokroussos does not say what happens if Black tries to contest the d file as in the first variation by 26... Qb6> Maybe 27.Qh5. |
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| Oct-25-08 | | KingG: <Personally, I think Kramnik avoided the Catalan possibly for two reasons: 1) He knows that Anand will be well prepared against it. 2) He is only prepared to play against the Slav and Semi-Slav.> Anand will be well prepared against almost anything. Kramnik is the world's leading expert in the Catalan, and should have been able to come up with some interesting ideas in his preparation. If Kramnik has only prepared for the Slav and Semi-Slav, then I would consider that to be a shocking failure of opening preparation on his part. Anand has played the Nimzo, QID, QGD and QGA plenty of times in his career, so I don't see how Kramnik could just ignore those openings. Anyway, Kramnik's opening preparation in this match has obviously been a disaster, and for that reason alone he deserves to lose. |
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| Oct-25-08 | | Ulhumbrus: <KingG> The Slav avoids the Catalan |
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| Oct-25-08 | | Ulhumbrus: <Eyal: <Ulhumbrus: At move 25 Dennis Monokroussos gives 25.Qc2 Rg8 26.Rd2 Qb6 27.Qc3 Kg7 28.Ne3 ; 25.Rf3 Rg8 26.Rd3 Qc4 27.b3 Qc5 28.Qb2 [...] In the second variation above on 25 Rf3 Rg8 26 Rd3 Monokroussos does not say what happens if Black tries to contest the d file as in the first variation by 26... Qb6> Maybe 27.Qh5.> Then 27...Rd8 eg 28 Rxd8 Qxd8 |
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| Oct-25-08 | | kp2q: Doesn't Kramnik have a winning attack at the end with 39 h4 planning h5 and h6 with mate on g7? I don't see why he settled for a perpetual |
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| Oct-25-08 | | slomarko: its too slow because black can play Rd3. |
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| Oct-25-08 | | Eyal: <Ulhumbrus: <Eyal: <Ulhumbrus: At move 25 Dennis Monokroussos gives 25.Qc2 Rg8 26.Rd2 Qb6 27.Qc3 Kg7 28.Ne3 ; 25.Rf3 Rg8 26.Rd3 Qc4 27.b3 Qc5 28.Qb2 [...] In the second variation above on 25 Rf3 Rg8 26 Rd3 Monokroussos does not say what happens if Black tries to contest the d file as in the first variation by 26... Qb6> Maybe 27.Qh5.> Then 27...Rd8 eg 28 Rxd8 Qxd8> 27...Rd8?? loses to 28.Qxf7, of course; Monokroussos' suggested 26...Qc4 is probably the best. |
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| Oct-26-08 | | Eyal: In his commentary at the official site, Amador Rodriguez continues this line as follows: 25.Rf3 Rg8 26.Rd3 Qc4 27.b3 Qc5 28.Qb2 Kg7 29.Ne3 Rd8
30.Rxd8 Nxd8 31.Ng4 Qe7:
click for larger viewand White maintains some pressure.
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| Oct-26-08 | | Ulhumbrus: <Eyal: <Ulhumbrus: <Eyal: <Ulhumbrus: At move 25 Dennis Monokroussos gives 25.Qc2 Rg8 26.Rd2 Qb6 27.Qc3 Kg7 28.Ne3 ; 25.Rf3 Rg8 26.Rd3 Qc4 27.b3 Qc5 28.Qb2 [...] In the second variation above on 25 Rf3 Rg8 26 Rd3 Monokroussos does not say what happens if Black tries to contest the d file as in the first variation by 26... Qb6> Maybe 27.Qh5.> Then 27...Rd8 eg 28 Rxd8 Qxd8> 27...Rd8?? loses to 28.Qxf7, of course; Monokroussos' suggested 26...Qc4 is probably the best.> On 28 Qxf7 Black has 28...Rxd3. |
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| Oct-26-08 | | Eyal: <Ulhumbrus: On 28 Qxf7 Black has 28...Rxd3.> Surely 29.Qf8# should give White some edge... |
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| Oct-26-08 | | Ulhumbrus: <Eyal: <Ulhumbrus: On 28 Qxf7 Black has 28...Rxd3.> Surely 29.Qf8# should give White some edge...> Then Black's R is tied to the back rank. Black may have to delay 27..Rd8 and try 27...Qe7 first. |
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| Oct-26-08 | | Eyal: The queen is on b6 in this line, it can't go to e7. |
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| Oct-27-08 | | KingG: <Ulhumbrus> <The Slav avoids the Catalan> I know, but Anand didn't play the Slav in this game. |
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| Oct-27-08 | | Ulhumbrus: <Eyal > I mean 27...Qc7 |
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| Oct-27-08 | | Ulhumbrus: <Eyal > I mean 27...Qc7 <KingG: <Ulhumbrus> <The Slav avoids the Catalan> I know, but Anand didn't play the Slav in this game.> My mistake. Kramnik could indeed have played a Catalan by 3 g3. |
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Kibitzing
