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Florian Handke vs Holden Hernandez Carmenates
Capablanca Mem Premier II (2003), Havana CUB, rd 4
Pirc Defense: General (B07)  ·  1-0



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sac: 23.Rxe7 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
May-08-09  DarthStapler: I got the first two moves
Premium Chessgames Member
  jahhaj: Correction to the line I posted earlier about Black's attempt to defend with 25...Qd1 (mentioned by <gofer> and others)

25...Qd1 26.Bxf7 Kxf7 27.Qf6+ Kg8 28.Qg7+?? is not mate (28...Rxg7) but 28.Qh8+ Kf7 29.Qg7# is.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: <Random Visitor> <White's winning move in this game is 22.Bc3!, actually played one move earlier than today's puzzle.>

So, that must mean that 21... Qh5 was the losing move.

21...Qg4 looks better, making 22 Bc3 impossible.

click for larger view

Now, if 22 f3, then 22...Qd7 protects the bishop on e7.

May-08-09  YouRang: I came up with a hair-brained scheme that didn't work. Anyone want to hear about it?

(My recommendation: don't).

May-08-09  Samagonka: Rxe7 was the first move that instinctively came to mind but I dismissed it for something more Bxf7! Then of course I got lost in search for a winning combination, gave up & decided to check. What did I see? Rxe7!!!!
May-08-09  mindmaster: I didnt continue anything about the Rxe7 line.....Rather played 23. Bf6 and considered it the winning move for it wins material in all the variations....

Case I:(Black did not move his bishop or take the bishop) 23. Bf6 Qf5 24. Bxe7 Rxe7 25. Rxe7 wins the Rook

Case II:(Bishop moves back)
23. Bf6 Bd8?? 24. Rxe8#

Case III:(Black takes the Bishop)
23. Bf6 Bxf6 24. Rxe8+ Kg7 25. Qxd6 Kh6 26. Qxf6 wins material

Case IV:(Impressive Black move according to me)
23. Bf6 Bf8 24. Rxe8 wins the rook with strong attacks for White for white for the Black pieces are pinned and Queen dont have a valuable move...

May-08-09  psmith: <gofer>
25 ... Qd1 26. Bxf7+! Rxf7 (or 26...Kxf7 27. Qe6+ and mates) 27. Rxd1 wins.

Don't be so grumpy.

May-08-09  Kasputin: <TheaN: Hm. Maybe THIS is not as obvious as I thought, nonetheless, it bothers me why there are so few people whom considered 23....Be6?! or 23....Rxe7 24.Qxd6 Be6?!. It seems like the better defense to me.>

You are right of course - if it a question of choosing a defensive line that leads to mate versus a defensive line that doesn't lead to mate, then who wouldn't pick the one that does not lead to mate?

But the question is different if it is posed liked this: "there is a defensive line that does not lead to mate but choose it and you end up with a disadvantage" versus "there is a defensive line that leads to mate but if the opponent misses the best line of play then you end up with an advantage."

In that case, some people at least will opt for the latter.

In evaluating the merits of the exchange sac, I thought more about what white could do if black made the "obvious" replies instead of what white would do if black made the less obvious replies. This is not a knock on you <TheaN> because you and <johnlspouge> (as far as I can tell) are the two kibitzers who consistently present the most analysis on these puzzles. (Apologies to anyone slighted by this comment - I know lots of people work hard on these.)

I didn't really think about Be6 on move 23 (and I am not sure if I needed to all that much) but I did think about it on move 24. I didn't write anything down about it because I figured "if this is the best that black can come up with, then it is still worthwhile to play the exchange sac, especially since white is down material in the initial position." Well I didn't really phrase it like that to myself but that is the general idea.

So congrats to you (as always) for doing the real knitty-gritty hard-core analysis. I skipped it this time, doing instead "adequate" analysis. Of course, I know that "adequate" is bound to fail at some point sooner or later and that hard-core will prevail. But this time anyway we both got it right.

May-08-09  mindmaster: I think the same effect as Case IV is observed if play continues as

24. ... Qh6 25. Qxe7 Qf8 Any suggestions....

May-08-09  melv: Can't figure out what black was thinking with 22.c5. It appears white has several ways to win after this move.Rxe6 or simply Bb5.
May-08-09  AxelBoldt: melv, 22...c5 is there to prevent 23.Qd4. The only other way to prevent that move would be 22...Qc5, but then comes 23.Qh6.
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: After <23.Rxe7 Rxe7 24.Qxd6> White has various threats:

25.Qxe7/25.Qd8+/Qf6 depending on Black's 24... are strong ones.

May-08-09  GreenFacedPatzer: Astounding: I got this one fairly quickly (80% anyway. I looked at a different variation for the last move--it doesnt' turn out any differently.)

What's so astonishing about that? Well, this week I got Monday, and completely missed Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday... and had pretty much convinced myself that my talents lie elsewhere. Then comes a Friday puzzle, and I actually get it right. Odd.

Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: So what was Black's last chance to hold the balance?

<RV> indicates White has it won after 22. Bc3! So, I'm thinking maybe 21...Qg4! = is Black's last chance to hold.

One possibility is 21... Qg4! 22. f3 Qd7 23. Bxf7+! Kxf7 24. Qh6 Bf6 25. Qxh7+ Kf8 26. Rxe8+ Qxe8 27. Bxf6 Qe3+ 28. Kg2 Qe2+ 29. Kg1 Qe3+ 30. Kg2 Qe2+ 31. Kg1 Qe3+ = with a draw by repetition.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: <patzer2> <So what was Black's last chance to hold the balance? <RV> indicates White has it won after 22. Bc3! So, I'm thinking maybe 21...Qg4! = is Black's last chance to hold.>

In my County (Ventura) we had a nasty 4.2 earthquake at 1:30 PDT today. We have uncontrolled wildfires raging in the next County over, (Santa Barbara) 35 miles away.

But having my post ignored is too much to bear!

May-08-09  beenthere240: I've been thinking. Perhaps 21...Qg4 offered black drawing chances. Surprised that no one has posted this line before. I wonder what people in California are thinking? Hope the fire isn't distracting them!
May-08-09  TheBish: F Handke vs H Hernandez, 2003

White to play (23.?) "Difficult"

I didn't find this one too difficult for a Friday.

Material: White is down two pawns, but is ahead in development and has more active pieces and the initiative.

Candidate moves: Qxd6, Rxe7 - I knew it had to be one of these!

23. Qxd6 is a nice try, but it fails badly to 23...Be6! and now White has nothing better than 24. Qd3.

23. Rxe7! is the right move, weakening the black squares and specifically the a1-h8 diagonal. The goal is to get the queen to g7 or h8.

23...Rxe7 24. Qxd6 (threatening both Qf6 and Qd8+, besides Qxe7) and now:

A) 24...Re8 25. Bxf7+ Kxf7 26. Qf6+ Kg8 27. Qg7 mate.

B) 24...Be6 25. Qxe7 Bxc4 26. Re1! (26. Qf6 Kf8 27. Re1 Be2 28. Qh8+ Ke7 29. Qxa8 also wins) and Black has no defense to the threats of Qe8+ and Qf6, i.e. 26...Be6 27. Rxe6, or 26...Rf8 27. Qf6 or 26...Be2 27. Rxe2.

C) 24...Rd7 25. Re1! and again there is no defense to the check on the back rank, i.e. 25...h6 26. Re8+ Kh7 27. Rh8 mate.

Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: <jimfromprovidence> Sorry to hear about the earth quake and fires in California. Hope there was no damage to your home.

I see we both conculude 21...Qg4! was the last best chance to save Black's game, but I'm also curious to hear from <RV> on the subject.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: <beenthere240> Love your attitude! I probably would respond similarly.

<patzer2> The tremor was relatively mild, but the epicenter was only 20 miles from my town. Makes one on edge.

The fire, though, is still causing a lot of problems. Still only 10% contained. Here's a good link below, to those interested.

Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: <Jimfromprovidence> In addition to fires and earthquakes, recession and a bad economy, I hear Californians are soon to be hit with higher taxes.

Is it true the sales tax will soon go above 10% in LA county?

May-09-09  MaxxLange: "Boom! Give me a budget and watch me hack it
"Gimme a beat, and I'll show you how to jack it"

"I cut the rich a giant tax loophole
"and leave the poor living in a poop hole

"At a time when AIDS is in a crisis
"I cut health care, and I raise prices..."

Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: White puts an unanswerable quandry to black:Either he must allow an entrance on the back rank or the long diagonal. Either way leads to mate.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: <patzer2> <Is it true the sales tax will soon go above 10% in LA County?>

The current rate is 9.25%. It will increase to 9.75% on July 1 because of recent voter approval of Measure R, which will fund transportation improvements.

A handful of cities in LA County have previously approved local sales taxes increases, so for those cities, rates above 10% on July 1 will kick in.

Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: Does this mean that California and its affiliates should receive more than God?-only slightly joking!
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: <kevin86> <Does this mean that California and its affiliates should receive more than God?-only slightly joking!>

Sales taxes are high because property taxes are held artificially low due to the passage of Prop 13 in 1978.

Overall, California state finances are in shambles. The state has a projected $40 billion dollar deficit over the next 16 months. Five Propositions are on the ballot next week (May 19) to help close thie deficit.

All are currently projected to fail. After that, all bets are off. Stay tuned.

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