< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·
|Jun-10-09|| ||YouRang: I suppose white was worried about ...Qxf1#, and didn't consider counter attack.|
But, knowing that this was a puzzle, and knowing that I needed to give check, I found 26.Ra8+ Kb7 right away.
I admit that at first I was thinking 27.Qd5+? was next, until I noticed black's knight guarding d5. But that only made 27.Qb3+ become obvious, forcing 27...Qxa8 28.Ra1+ ~#
|Jun-10-09|| ||outplayer: I saw the mate.I suppose a 2258-rated player can see this combination rather easily. By the way what happens after 22...Qxd2?|
|Jun-10-09|| ||braimondi: I saw 26 Ra8+ Kb7 27 Ra7+ Kxa7 28 Qxc7+ Ka6 29 Ra1#|
|Jun-10-09|| ||xrt999: <JG27Pyth>
In an actual game, I think immediately seeing that 26.Ra8+ is a forced win in 4 would be a very worthy accomplishment! If you see that, and also see that black has absolutely no defense, then you have won the game and would not then look for other lines, and say "well, I see forced mate in 4, but what if I dont play forced mate in 4, what about this other cool looking move?"
On the other hand, examining every single black response in a "post-mortem" is very beneficial in expanding your chess-playing repetoire.
Furthermore, this is not an actual game, it is a puzzle, so.... you are partly right. I will give you half of half of half credit.
|Jun-10-09|| ||al wazir: <sfm: If 22.-,Qxd2 White wins after 23.a6,b5>? Not clear. Anyway, after 22...Qxd2 23. a6, 23...bxa6 is better. 24. Rxa6 Nf6 transposes into the game line, but the black ♔ can run (24...Kd7) and may be succeed in hiding on the kingside.|
|Jun-10-09|| ||TCS: I want to ask a different question of the forum.
With 25.? and White to play what are your thoughts about 25.Qf7 Qd3?
I've looked at this puzzle several times today and cannot fathom White's thinking. Its obvious that the over-aching plans were attacks on the King on either wing. At move 25.? White is in great shape. Sure 25.Qf7 attacks the Nf6 AND 26.Ra8+ but its clear that this was not in White's mind so what was?
Equally 25...Qd3 is poor. Yes...it threatens Qxf1 and Qxe4+ but really these are easy to see and force White to continue his plans but playing 27.Rfa1 is shocking.
Psychologically the issue may have been that White and Black were so absolutely focused on their own plans that they ignored the other player...and even then didn't look as hard as one would have expected at this level.
Am I being uncharitable? Am I safely hiding behind hindsight? And what is wrong with 25.Ra6-a7 an obvious candidate that puts Black in serious trouble with no way to stop 26.Qb7+? This puzzle is an 'insane' puzzle!
|Jun-10-09|| ||Domdaniel: In real OTB games, where you have a choice of winning methods, it can be strangely disappointing to miss the most efficient one. I had one game that sticks in my memory -- I'd done all the hard work, including a knight sac, and now had an overwhelming position, with a rook on the 7th and raking bishops aimed at the enemy king. I played a move that won a rook and led to mate in about 6 moves, and my opponent resigned on the spot. Then I saw that I'd overlooked a neat mate in 2 ...|
Why is it that a move that forces resignation can feel wrong? Or that I still think I 'spoiled' the game by winning the way I did?
Funny business, chess.
BTW, with these puzzles I usually try to avoid dwelling on what day of the week it is (sometimes I genuinely don't know!). Those people who go "it's Tuesday, so it's probably a forcing sac, not too deep" seem to me to be missing the point.
|Jun-10-09|| ||Pawnage: Poor guy, I feel bad enough when I miss forced mates in skittles blitz and lose because of it. I imagine it must be much, much worse at standard time controls.|
|Jun-10-09|| ||ajk68: I found the 26. Ra8+ Kb2 27. Ra7+ line.
In some ways it's more intriguing as the knight is also involved the mate.
|Jun-10-09|| ||GoldenKnight: Hmmph, I used to know Dennis Fritzinger, well, I should say I was acquainted with him from Bay Area tournaments when I was a teenager back in the sixties. He seemed a little too high-minded to say more than "hi" to me. I was looking forward to seeing him lose, so I was disappointed. I did spot the win before peeking, though.|
|Jun-10-09|| ||Eggman: Didn't think of 28.Qb3+, so my way was a tad slower: 27.Ra8+ Kb7 28.Ra7+ Kxa7 (28...Kb6, 28...Kb8, 28...Kc8 are all met with 29.Qxc7#) 29.Qxc7+ Ka8 (29...Ka6 30.Ra1#) 30.Ra1+ Qa6 31.Rxa6#|
|Jun-10-09|| ||Major Dude: Glad I got this one :)|
|Jun-10-09|| ||Patriot: <Domdaniel> and <JG27Pyth>:|
You both make great points. I guess I have a very stringent way of thinking.
But it does remind me of something my brother says sometimes when we play and he's threatening to capture a piece for free. I would move the piece to safety and he would say: "I wasn't going to take that piece!" I always laugh and reply: "Maybe...but I can't think that way!"
If I got into the habit of leaving a piece in-take just because my brother says he won't take it, I'm afraid I would start to play that sloppy with everyone else. So I try to be consistent in my thought process--in puzzles and OTB.
|Jun-10-09|| ||ROADDOG: Mr Burkett must still lose sleep over this one. If only I'd played 26 Ra8+........|
|Jun-10-09|| ||Aurora: 26. Ra8+ Kb7 27. Qb3+ Kxa8 28. Ra1+ should have done it for white.|
|Jun-10-09|| ||sexylady: 26. Ra8+ Kb7, 27. Qb3+
|Jun-10-09|| ||WhiteRook48: I knew it was 26 Ra8+|
|Jun-10-09|| ||The Rocket: strange I couldnt see the right move looking at the main page graphics, but when I switched to the java I saw the answer right away!|
anybody agrees that the java graphics are easier to calculate from?:P
|Jun-10-09|| ||Kings Indian: I got it too, and was quite disappointed with my winning line not taken. Max makes a poor choice and was justly beaten. He must have not taken seriously black's threat against his king.|
|Jun-10-09|| ||Hugh the Drover: I've been wanting to collect games of 10 or more moves before a K- or Q-side piece moves and the sedentary side wins. Here, it's 20 moves before Black stirs a K-side piece and he wins (albeit by White's oversight).|
|Jun-10-09|| ||ChessGod999: I have a question about the text continuation. I saw another variation, and it seems to force mate anyway, but I need to know if I'm missing something. Once black plays Qd3, I was thinking... Ra8+, Kb7, Ra7+ (if Kxa7, then Qxf7+, forcing Ka6, then Ra1 forces mate. If King avoids this by K back to c8, then Qxc7is mate. Finally, if black refuses the rook, and moves to b6, the only legal square, Qxc7 is mate) Note the queen would be defended by the rook on a7. Anyway, I saw this variation, and missed the other one, so let me know if I missed something.|
|Jun-10-09|| ||Utopian2020: I'll take 3/4 point. I had 26.Ra8+ Kb7 27.Ra7+ Kxa7 28.Qxc7+ (Ka6 or Ka8) 29.Ra1#.|
|Jun-10-09|| ||Formula7: I found the 26.Ra8+ Kb7 27.Ra7+ Kxa7 28.Qxc7+ Ka8 29.Ra1+ Qa6 30.Rxa6 line.|
|Jun-10-09|| ||openingspecialist: 22. ... Qxd2 would attract 23. Qf7 where the knight isn't protecting the pawn any longer. With no back rank threat black is in bad shape.|
|Jun-11-09|| ||Fezzik: Utopian,
Mate is mate, even if it's one move slower. Chessgames.com gave equal points to both lines. (See page 1)
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