Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing
Magnus Carlsen vs Vladimir Kramnik
Dortmund Sparkassen (2009), Dortmund GER, rd 3, Jul-04
Nimzo-Indian Defense: Classical Variation (E32)  ·  1/2-1/2



Get this game explained with Decode Chess
explore this opening
find similar games 67 more Carlsen/Kramnik games
PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: Help with kibitzing features can be found on our Kibtizing Help Page.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jul-04-09  parisattack: <acirce: Exactly <AgentRgent>. Most players would have avoided gxf6, going for dynamic compensation for the knight... but Drawnik of course allows the perpetual as the Drawnik he is.>

WT...? I looked in 10 minutes ago and thought 'Wow, a Nimzo-Indian and an unblanaced position. Maybe a new Kramnik!'

NOT good for classical chess...

Jul-04-09  Knight13: Yeah pretty messed up.
Jul-04-09  acirce: <parisattack> I hope you do understand it was a joke... All theory, btw. It's already been played in Erdos-Saric 2008 but with 14.Qg4+ Kh8 15.Rd2 Nc6 and then White going for the perpetual although taking a few more moves, throwing in Ng5 too.
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: <AgentRgent: <Don't you know, whenever there's a draw, it's Kramnik's fault! In fact Kramnik's even responsible for a draw I played yesterday!>> LOL, more worse he is responsible for all draws that have been played and also for all draws that will ever be played from now on.
Jul-04-09  Chess Carnival: It is my dream to shake hands with Drawnik someday... lol ;)
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: Well, after this 3 round game Carlsen is still leading with .5 points and with Naiditsch and Bacrot he's having the 'easiest' schedule until the end.
Jul-04-09  drnooo: This game is no reflection on Krammnik at all. The mirror has to be held up to Carlsen entirely. And from here it seems that Carlsen is clearly afraid of Krammnik. This is not his style to go into such early draws, unless he was not aware that this was a prepared line, otherwise we have to assume he wanted no part of Krammnik. It seems to me that still the two best players of chess on the planet right now are Krammnik and Anand. Carlsen knows it. Its that simple.
Jul-04-09  rogge: A lot has changed since your post during Linares (March 1st), I can tell:

<drnooo:... right now Carlsen could just be the best player on the planet, Topo Anand notwithstanding>.

Jul-04-09  Gambitor: Carlsen had a 0.5 point lead. I think he made the right move with his short draws against Leko and Kramnik. Some people has to understand that competitive chess is not about playing beautiful games, but winning tournaments. Its impossible to play for a win every single game and at the same time have good torunament results (even kasparov made these boring draws) If in the second half of the tournament, Carlsen need to get the full point from Leko and Kramnik, he will play for a win for sure, but it is better to take risks against, for example,Jakovenko and Naidistch who are may be 70 or 80 points overrated... think about it.
Jul-04-09  acirce: What's up with the "Krammnik" spelling anyway? I don't know if that one is better or worse than "Kramnick"..
Jul-04-09  rogge: Right...

Anyway, I'd say in a tournament between Topalov, Anand, Carlsen, Aronian and Kramnik to decide who's "best", any one of them could win. (Even though I can't remember a great tournament performance by Kramnik since Tal Memorial 2007)

Jul-04-09  percyblakeney: <I'd say in a tournament between Topalov, Anand, Carlsen, Aronian and Kramnik to decide who's "best", any one of them could win. (Even though I can't remember a great tournament performance by Kramnik since Tal Memorial 2007)>

It's been quite a while since Kramnik played well (with his standards), losing points in every event after Tal Memorial 2007. 12 draws in the last 13 (most of them against much lower rated opponents), and one win against Short. It may change already tomorrow, but he hasn't felt really sharp since 2007.

Jul-04-09  acirce: Don't worry, he's just saving energy for the Candidates.
Jul-04-09  rogge: <he's just saving energy for the Candidates>

I hope he'll get there. But how? Is he relying on receiving the wild card? He should make an effort to improve his rating, imo.

Jul-04-09  percyblakeney: <He should make an effort to improve his rating, imo>

When asked about his goals he mentioned reaching #1 on the rating list first, but he will need a bit more than he has showed lately to do that, it's still well over 50 points up to first place.

Jul-04-09  acirce: <rogge>

Well, I was obviously joking, but I think he is pretty likely to get there either by rating or by wildcard as long as he plays at a decent level (better than 2008, not necessarily as well as in 2007). Of course there is no guarantee at all and yes he must clearly make an effort.

Jul-04-09  parisattack: <acirce: <parisattack> I hope you do understand it was a joke... All theory, btw. It's already been played in Erdos-Saric 2008 but with 14.Qg4+ Kh8 15.Rd2 Nc6 and then White going for the perpetual although taking a few more moves, throwing in Ng5 too.>

I understand, but it's no joke to me. I've been playing and following chess for almost 50 years and the deterioration because of computers and games like this clearly threaten the future of the game - what future it has left.

I doubt it is a joke to whoever is footing the tab - to see these guys whack out 19 moves and head to the biergarten - or to the bathroom as may be the case for Kramnik.

Jul-04-09  acirce: <or to the bathroom as may be the case for Kramnik.>

Yeah that's classy, Mr. Pompous. We need more bathroom jokes, been so long since Elista. But can you try to say what exactly you think Kramnik did that was so horrible here? I assume even you think it's acceptable to agree to a draw when your opponent forces one, so what exactly should he have done different? More importantly, why is it even a crime to allow White to force a draw, particularly seeing that an easy draw with Black against your main competitor in the event is a result you can be happy with anyway?

Short draws have been around since long before Kramnik was born, not to mention Carlsen. Chess wasn't killed by Karpov's and Petrosian's 12-move draws - it is more alive than ever. I can assure you it's going to survive this too.

Jul-04-09  notyetagm: Like I have said many times before:


Pick only *one* for your tournament.

Jul-04-09  returnoftheking: I am glad you didn't say that before Tilburg 1997, when Kramnik and Svidler ended shared first with Kasparov ahead of a lot of strong GM's. Both had 5 wins out of 11 games. Leko 4 wins and 1 loss, still ahead of f.e. Polgar, Shirov, Lautier, van Wely and Piket.
Jul-05-09  Ulhumbrus: 8 Qxc4 invites ..Ba6 with tempo following the move ...b6. On the other hand, 8 e3 obstructs White's Queen's Bishop. This suggests 7 Bg5 instead of 7 Nf3, so that on 7...dxc4 8 e3 won't obstruct the development of White's Queen's Bishop.

After 11...bxc5 White has the bishop pair and Black's Queen side pawns are isolated. If White just completes his development, Black will have to struggle to draw for the rest of the game. This suggests 12 g3.

The objection to 13 Bxf6?! is that White has still to complete his development, and because of that he is unable to take advantage of Black's weakened King side. This suggests 13 Qc2 or even 13 Bc1 planning to just complete his development by g3, Bg2 and 0-0.

Jul-05-09  notyetagm: <returnoftheking: I am glad you didn't say that before <<<Tilburg 1997>>>, when Kramnik and Svidler ended shared first with Kasparov ahead of a lot of strong GM's. >

The fact that you have to pick out a tournament from 12(!) years ago simply reinforces my point.

Jul-05-09  shintaro go: I'll have to add this to my game collection.
Jul-05-09  returnoftheking: Notyetagm:

Fair enough:

Corus 2004 then..
No brilliant achievements by the three; but not an excessive amount of draws at all.

Jul-05-09  acirce: I hadn't seen Chessdom's live comments in their entirety (thanks <grkoste>). This is pathetic (is it possible to be more blatantly biased?) but in a way pretty humorous.

After 13.Bxf6:

<Some early fireworks. Typically white's compensation for his lack of development in such lines is that he receives the advantage of the two bishops. Here, Carlsen cashes in one strategic chip for another - now he has broken up black's pawn structure and also opened up Kramnik's king. This is certainly a dynamic opening choice for Kramnik, and a bit of a surprise. Throughout the years we have becomes use to more solid, positional chess from Vladimir. Perhaps Anand's aggressive approach to the black side of 1. d4 in the recent World Championship match has inspired Kramnik. Already we have an imbalance in the game- Kramnik is very active, Carlsen has all of the positional trumps. Carlsen has static advantages while Kramnik has all the dynamic play in his favor. If Kramnik continues to play this way in the opening, he may soon have a new fan.>

After the game ended:

<This display is bad for chess and a good example of why chess lacks some of the more mainstream popularity we wish it had. Who is to blame? Who "forced" the perpetual? Technically Magnus played the moves which cornered black into moving the king back and forth, but likely both players followed a game known to them. 12. ...Qb6 may be the culprit, as it seemed from here black's lead in development dictated white to play for the draw "or else.">

Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 4)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 4 OF 4 ·  Later Kibitzing>

NOTE: Create an account today to post replies and access other powerful features which are available only to registered users. Becoming a member is free, anonymous, and takes less than 1 minute! If you already have a username, then simply login login under your username now to join the discussion.

Please observe our posting guidelines:

  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate, or gibberish posts.
  3. No vitriolic or systematic personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No cyberstalking or malicious posting of negative or private information (doxing/doxxing) of members.
  6. No trolling.
  7. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by moderators, create a false impression of consensus or support, or stage conversations, is prohibited.

Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.

Blow the Whistle

See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a moderator.

NOTE: Please keep all discussion on-topic. This forum is for this specific game only. To discuss chess or this site in general, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of, its employees, or sponsors.
All moderator actions taken are ultimately at the sole discretion of the administration.

This game is type: CLASSICAL. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
E32 1/2-1/2 19
from Carls & Ribbons Cranks Up Fredthebear's Hair ADE by fredthebear
Nimzo-Indian 4.Qc2 O-O 5.a3 Bxc3+ 6.Qxc3 d5, perpetual
from Drawing lines by FSR
Magnus Carlsen's best games
Magnus Carlsen's best games
by shintaro go

Home | About | Login | Logout | F.A.Q. | Profile | Preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | New Kibitzing | Chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | Privacy Notice | Contact Us

Copyright 2001-2021, Chessgames Services LLC