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Rainer Knaak vs Juan Carlos Fernandez Gonzalez
Halle DSV (1978), Halle GDR, rd 12, Nov-??
King's Indian Defense: Saemisch Variation. Normal Defense (E81)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Aug-23-09  Athamas: Old Wolf... what is better than Ng3 for black? I saw nothing active for him unless he wanted to try f5?
Aug-23-09  DarthStapler: I was a bit distracted by the fact that the link to the game was purple, indicating that I had visited this page recently, so instead of trying to solve it I tried to remember the answer instead. I didn't, however.
Aug-23-09  cyclon: A great FINAL phase, though PREVIOUSLY under `obscure` circumstances. Black could have improved somewhere between moves 15. to 21. ( `Got a feeling`.)
Aug-23-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: <Athamas> <Old Wolf... what is better than Ng3 for black? I saw nothing active for him unless he wanted to try f5?>

Try 24...Qd7. It bottles up the position pretty well.


click for larger view

Aug-23-09  RandomVisitor: After 6.Be3 white appears to have a commanding center, but Rybka claims that Black can equalize:

1: Rainer F A Knaak - Juan Fernandez, Halle 1978


click for larger view

Analysis by Rybka 3 :

<[+0.05] d=22 6...Nfd7> 7.h4 h5 8.Qd2 c5 9.Nge2 Nc6 10.0-0-0 Qa5 11.Kb1 b6 12.f4 cxd4 13.Nxd4 Bb7 14.Be2 Nc5 15.Bf3 Nb4 16.a3

Aug-23-09  RandomVisitor: <patzer2><Just curious as to how Rybka evaluates 20. Bxc5!! I'm not sure if it wins with best play, but figure it's got lots of winning chances and is certainly not losing.>After 20.Bxc5! Nxd5 there is:

1: Rainer F A Knaak - Juan Fernandez, Halle 1978


click for larger view

Analysis by Rybka 3 : <15-ply>

<1. (2.84): 21.Nxd5> Nxh1 22.Ne7+ Kf7 23.Qb4 Qxd1+ 24.Kxd1 Rab8 25.Qe1 Rfe8 26.Bd3 Rxe7 27.Bxe7 Kxe7 28.Qxh1 f5 29.Qe1 Bc6 30.b3 Ra8 31.Qa5 Kd7 32.Ke2

2. (1.98): 21.Bxf8 Nxh1 22.Nxd5 Qxf8 23.Nb6 Ng3 24.Nxa8 Bxa8 25.Qa5

3. ± (1.08): 21.cxd5 Nxf1 22.Rhxf1 Rf7 23.d6 Rc8 24.Ba3 Qd7 25.Kb1 Rc4 26.Qd3 Rd4 27.Qe2 Rh4 28.Rh1 Rxh1 29.Rxh1 f5 30.Bc5

Aug-23-09  obender71: Insane puzzle
20 Bxc5 Bxd5
21 Bxb6 Qxb6
22 Qd5+ Rf7
23 Qxa8+ Rf8
24 Qd5+ Rf7
25 c5 Qb8
26 Bc4 Qf8
27 Qx7+ Qxf7
28 Rd8#

25 ... Qb7
26 Qd8+ Rf8
27 Bc4+ Qf7

---

20 Bxc5 Nd7
21 Ne7+ Kf7
22 Qxd7 Nxh1
23 Nc6+ Qxd7
24 Rxd7+

---

20 Bxc5 Nc8
21 Bxf8 Nxh1
22 Ne7+ Nxe7
23 Qxd8 Rxd8
24 Rxd8

---

20 Bxc5 Re8
21 Bb6 Qb8/Qc8
22 Rh3 Nxf1 and White is a solid piece up

---

20 Bxc5 Nxh1
21 Bxb6

a) Qc8?? Ne7+
b) Qd7?? Nxf6 and Qxd7
c) Qd6 c5 Qe6? Bc4 Qb8 Ne7+ Kf7 Bc4+ and mate follow d) Qb8 Ne7+ Kf7 Qd7 Rd8 Bxd8 Qxd8 Qxb7
e) Qe8 c5 Rf7 Bc4 Ng3 (Rc8 Nc7 Qe7 Bxf7+ Kxf7 Rxh1 ) Nc7 Q(e7) Bxf7+ Kxf7 Nxa8 Bxa8 Qd7 a quality up and a double on 8th rank incoming

---

20 Bxd5 Nxd5
after
21 cd Rc8 critical
22 Bxf8 Nxh1 there is nothing, only the pawn gained on c5

let's see
22 b4 Nxh1
23 Bc4 Ng3
24 d6+ Rf7
25 d7 Ra8
26 Qd6 Nf5!
27 Bxf7+ Kxf7
28 Qf8+ Qxf8
29 Bxf8 both Rxf8 and Kxf8
30 d8Q and there are the two bishops hanging and the black pawn in h7 that should fall ... AAAARGGH!

Surely I missed something. Really insane puzzle. So many variations and so difficult lines if really Bxc5 is the move.

Aug-23-09  obender71: Really obscene puzzle. I spent some hours on it, cause didnt wanna fail trhee day on a row. Yep, "thinking on notepad" is not the most fluid and speedy way to calculate such difficult variations. But without it I would not be able to calculate with linear order, rather many passes for each sub-line.
Aug-23-09  Athamas: Thanks Jim, didn't really consider Qd7 since you give all the material back after Rxh1 but definitely better than Ng3.

Interesting that Nxd5 is the best move by so much. Cxd5 seems so natural to the plan of clearing space, promoting a pawn and attacking the weak diaganol. Guess that's why I'm just a patzer

Aug-23-09  chessenthus: when i saw the puzzle,i considered so many moves like:Ne7+ or Nxb6 and Bxc5.For me ,i would play Bxc5 as the other 2 moves were losing.Bxc5 was so tempting.Didnt see the continuation after that!
Aug-23-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: Material is even. Black threatens 20... Nxh1, 20... Nxf1 followed by 21... Nxc4, and probably plans ... Rb8, ... f5, ... e4, etc. However, his king lacks mobility and the diagonal a2-g8 could be exploited after removing both c pawns (this reminds me of yesterday's puzzle Portisch vs A Deze, 1971). Therefore, 20.Bxc5:

A) 20... Nxh1 21.Bxb6

A.1) 21... Qb8 22.Ne7+ Kf7 23.Qd7 (threatens 24.Nc6+) Qe8 24.Qxd7 Rb8 (24... Qxe7 25.Rd7) 25.Qd5+ Kxe7 26.Bc5#.

A.2) 21... Qe8 22.Nc7 Qc6 23.Nxa8 Bxa8 24.c5 with various threats. For example, 24... Ng3 25.Bc4+ Rf7 26.Qd8+ and mate next, or 24... Qe6 25.Qc3 Bd5 26.Rxd5, etc.

A.3) 21... Qd7 22.Nxf6+ + -.

A.4) 21... Qc8 22.Ne7+ + -.

B) 20... Nxd5 21.cxd5

B.1) 21... Nxh1 22.Bc4 Ng3 23.d6+ Rf7 24.d7 with the idea Qd6 followed by Bb6 or Qe6.

B.2) 21... Qc7 22.Bxf8 Nxh1 23.d6 Qc6 24.Be7 with various threats.

C) 20... Bxd5 21.Nxd5

C.1) 21... Nxh1 22.Bxb6 looks similar to A.

C.2) 21... Nxd5 22.cxd5 looks similar to B.

Not very satisfied but I have other things to do.

Aug-23-09  RandomVisitor: After 20.Bxc5!:

1: Rainer F A Knaak - Juan Fernandez, Halle 1978


click for larger view

Analysis by Rybka 3 : <15-ply>

1. (2.84): 20...Nxd5 21.Nxd5 Nxh1

2. (3.48): 20...Nxf1 21.Rhxf1 Nxd5 22.Nxd5 Rb8 23.Bxf8 Qxf8 24.Nb6 Re8 25.Kb1 e4 26.Qd7 Re7 27.Qd8 exf3 28.Qxf8+ Kxf8 29.gxf3 f5 30.Rd8+ Re8 31.Nd7+ Kf7 32.Rxe8 Kxe8 33.Nc5 Bc8 34.Kc2 Bd4 35.Re1+ Kf7

3. (4.00): 20...Nc8 21.Bxf8 Qxf8 22.Nc7 Rb8 23.Ne6 Qe8 24.c5 Nxf1 25.Rhxf1 Ne7 26.Qd7 f5 27.Qxe8+ Rxe8 28.Rd8 Rxd8 29.Nxd8 Bc8 30.Rd1 Bf6 31.Kc2 Bg5 32.Nd5 Nxd5 33.Rxd5 e4 34.fxe4

4. (4.84): 20...Qe8 21.Nxb6 Rd8 22.Qxd8 Qxd8 23.Rxd8 Rxd8 24.Rg1 f5 25.Bf2 Nxf1 26.Rxf1 e4 27.Ncd5 exf3 28.gxf3 Re8 29.Be3 Kf7 30.Rd1 Bc6 31.c5 Be5 32.Kc2 Bc7 33.Nc4 Bb8 34.Kb3

5. (5.12): 20...Bxd5 21.Bxb6

6. (5.15): 20...Rb8 21.Bxb6

7. (5.27): 20...f5 21.Ne7+

Aug-23-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: <athamas> 24...Qd7 is better because it (obviously) keeps the pawn off of the 7th rank.

But it also does a couple of other things. It prevents the forced response 25...Rxc5, which opens up the b file for white's queen to attack the unguarded bishop. Position below is after 27 Qb2.


click for larger view

With the queen on d7 after black's 24th,the b file remains closed and the bishop is protected by the queen.


click for larger view

White gains about a pawn in this position.

Aug-23-09  Athamas: Yes, just seems to go against my nature to passively wait for the end after Qd7. You basically have no active pieces in 2nd diagram, even if it's much stronger position
Aug-23-09  PinnedPiece: 28 ? would have been enough of a puzzle to defeat me.

.

Aug-23-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: Way to hard for me.
Aug-23-09  wals: [Event "Halle"]
[Site "Halle"]
[Date "1978.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Rainer F A Knaak"]
[Black "Juan Fernandez"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "E82"]
[WhiteElo "2484"]
[BlackElo "2396"]
[Annotator "Rybka 3 1-cpu (30m)"]
[PlyCount "55"]

{E82: King's Indian: Sämisch:

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5.
f3 O-O 6. Be3 a6 7. Qd2 b6 8. O-O-O c5 9. dxc5 bxc5 10. e5 Ne8 11. exd6 Nxd6 12. Nd5 Nd7 (12... Nc6 13. Bxc5 $11) 13. Bg5 $11 f6 14. Be3 (14. Bf4 e5 15. Nc3 Rb8 16. Qxd6 exf4 ) 14... Nf5 (14... Rb8 15. h4 f5 16. b3 ) 15. Ne2 (15. g4 Nxe3 16. Qxe3 Rf7 ) 15... e5 (15... e6 16. Ndc3 Qa5 ) 16. h4 Bb7 16... Rb8 17. h5 ) 17. h5 Nb6 ♗lack threatens to win material: ♘b6xc4 ( 17... Nd4 18. Nec3 (18. Bxd4 cxd4 (18... exd4 19. Nef4 Bxd5 20. Nxd5 ) 19. hxg6 hxg6 )) 18. Nec3 Ng3 (18... Rc8 ) 19. h6 Bh8 ? (19... Rf7 20. hxg7 Nxh1 ) 20. Bxc5 Nxd5 21. cxd5 (21. Bxf8 Nxh1 22. Nxd5 Qxf8 ) 21... Nxh1 ? (21... Rf7 22. Bc4 Nxh1 ) 22. Bc4 (22. d6 Qd7 23. Bc4+ Rf7 24. Qc2 (24. Rxh1 Rc8 2 Qe3 f5 )) 22... Rc8 ? (22... Rf7 23. d6 Qd7 ) 23. d6+ Rf7 24. b4 (24. Na4 Nf2 25. Qxf2 ) 24... Ng3 ?? (24... Nf2 25. Qxf2 Qd7 ) 25. d7 Rxc5 26. bxc5 Nf5 (26... f5 27. Qd6 Bg7 28. Bxf7+ Kxf7 29. hxg7 Bxf3 30. Qf8+ Qxf8 31. gxf8=Q+ Kxf8 32. d8=Q+ Kg7 33. Rd7+ Kh6 34. gxf3 a5 35. c6 Nh5 36. c7 e4 37. c8=Q a4 38. Rxh7+ Kxh7 39. Qh8#) 27. Qb2 Ne3 ( 27... Kf8 praying for a miracle 28. Bxf7 Nxh6 ) 28. Qb6 (28. Qb6 Qf8 29. d8=Q Nd5 30. Qxf8+ Rxf8 31. Rxd5 Bg7 32. Rd7+ Bd5 33. Bxd5+ Rf7 34. Bxf7+ Kh8 35. Qd8+ Bf8 36. Qxf8#) 1-0

The above may be of interest to those seeking help.

Aug-23-09  David2009: Sunday's puzzle R Knaak vs J Fernandez, 1978 White to play 20? Difficult

Material is even. White has a Rook en prise. I was tempted by 20 Bd3 hoping for 20..Nxd5 21 cxd5 Bxd5 22 Bxg6 Nxh1 23 Qc2 Qd7 24 Nxd5 hxg6 25 Nxf6+ Bxf6 26 Rxd7 and wins. This is a six-move combination beyond my reliable calculating powers, and it has a large hole: 20 Bd3 Nxh1 21 Bxg6 hxg6 (Black is B and R ahead) 22 Qc2 f5 and Black wins. Try instead 20 Bxc5 Nxd5 21 cxd5 Nxh1 22 Bc4 threatening mate and giving a powerful attack whatever Black plays. It is now 23.40 local time, check quickly:
============
I got the first three moves. The position and solvers' comments will still be there in the morning. Off to bed.

Aug-23-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  johnlspouge: Sunday (Insane):

R Knaak vs J Fernandez, 1978 (20.?)

White to play and win.

Material: Even. The Black Kg8 has 1 legal move, to f7, because Ph6 cramps the Black K-position. Black is essentially a piece down with Bh8 and 2 defensive pieces down with Ng3. Black threatens 20…Nxh1. The White Bf1 requires activation. The White Kc1 is secured from check, except the pointless 20…Ne2+.

Candidates (20.): Ne7+, Nxf6+, Bxc5, Nxb6, Bd3

20.Bxc5 (threatening 21.Bxb6 or 21.Bxf8)

Black must capture to avoid material loss.

(1) Black can accept the passive sacrifice of Rh1:

20…Nxh1 [Nxf1 21.Rhxb1 drops a P]

21.Bxb6 (threatening 22.Qe1, trapping Nh1)

Black cannot counter-attack the White center to save Nh1, because Nc3 can reload Nd5, the protector of Bb6, and because the base Pc4 is stable (e.g., Pb2-b3). Black loses 2N+P for R, a strong advantage against the cramped Black Kg8.

(2) 20…Bxd5 21.Nxd5 Nxd5 [else, the threats in Variation (1) ensue]

22.cxd5

With Bb7 exchanged for the passive Nc3, Variation (2) is worse than Variation (3).

(3) 20…Nxd5 21.cxd5 Nxh1 [else, drop a P]

22.Bc4 Rc8

23.b4 Ng3 [else, drop Nh1, for little position improvement]

24.d6+ Rf7 25.Nd5 (threatening 26.Nf7+ 27.Rc8)

I returned today from a vacation, so I had no time to complete the analysis. I thought that despite the material deficit, however, the sacrifice 20.Bxc5 led to an overwhelming position. Given the game, and particularly the next move (25...Rxc5), Black obviously agreed with the assessment.

Aug-23-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  johnlspouge: <RandomVisitor> corrects my Variation (2) with his Variation 5 (which I saw, but then promptly forgot!?). To complete it by memory:

20.Bxc5 Bxd5 21.Bxb6 Qd7 [Qxb6 22.Qxd5 Rf7 23.Qxa8+]

White wins at least a B.

Aug-23-09  gofer: 20 Bxc5

This not only attacks Rf8, but also frees up the c pawn to move forward and allow the deadly Bc4 or at least the threat of Bc4. Nxh1 isn't an option (it seems to lose very quickly to Bxb6), but Nxf1 maybe playable, but then black is already on the back foot having lost a key pawn. If black swaps off on d5 then the pawn will move to d5 and then d6 causing real problems, allowing the Nc3 to go to d5 and then e7. There are also threats of swapping off on d8.

I haven't done the analysis as I am on holiday... ...in Oz. But its time to check...

Aug-23-09
Premium Chessgames Member
  johnlspouge: < <Athamas> wrote : [snip] 23.d6+ Only 1 move. >

You are right, of course. Toga values 23.d6+ at about +6.5 P, although my 23.Nd5 still gets about +1.4 P. After 23.d6+, Toga gives some fatal variations where the White Qd3 replaces Bc4 after Bxf7+, and the Black K takes a stroll off the plank on the K-side, hence Black's panic-stricken sacrifice of the exchange.

Aug-23-09  patzer2: <RV> Thanks for the analysis. Looks like the clear winning line is 20. Bxc5!! Nxd5 21. Nxd5! Nxh1 22.Ne7+ Kf7 23.Qb4 , practically trapping the Queen.
Aug-23-09  WhiteRook48: I got 21 Nxf6+?? Qxf6 22 Bxc5??
Aug-23-09  RandomVisitor: 20.Bxc5!! Nxd5 21. Nxd5! and now:

1: Rainer F A Knaak - Juan Fernandez, Halle 1978


click for larger view

Analysis by Rybka 3 : <19-ply>

1. (3.21): 21...Re8 22.Ne7+ Kf7 23.Qe1 Qb8 24.Qxg3 Rxe7 25.Bxe7 Kxe7 26.f4 Qc7 27.fxe5 f5 28.Qa3+ Ke8 29.Qd6 Qe7 30.e6 Qxd6 31.Rxd6 Bc8 32.c5 Be5 33.Rb6 Ke7 34.Bc4 Ra7 35.b4 Bc7

2. (3.59): 21...Bxd5 22.Bxf8 Kxf8 23.Rg1 f5 24.Qxd5 Bf6 25.Kc2 Qe8 26.Qd6+ Be7 27.Qxe5 Qa4+ 28.Kc1 Bg5+ 29.f4 Bxh6 30.Qd6+ Kf7 31.Qd5+ Kf6 32.Qf3 Nxf1 33.b3 Qe8 34.Rgxf1 Bf8 35.Rfe1 Qc8 36.Qd5 a5

3. (4.00): 21...Nxh1 22.Ne7+ Kf7 23.Qb4 Qxd1+ 24.Kxd1 Rfb8 25.Qe1 Rd8+ 26.Kc2 f5 27.Bd3 Bf6 28.Nxf5 Rxd3 29.Kxd3 gxf5 30.Qxh1 Rd8+ 31.Ke2 Ke6 32.Qe1 Rd7 33.Be3 e4 34.Qb4 exf3+ 35.gxf3 Kf7 36.Qb6 Re7

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