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Jiri Jirka vs Vladislav Ivanovich Tkachiev
European Club Cup (2009), Ohrid MKD, rd 1, Oct-04
Modern Defense: Fianchetto. Azmaiparashvili Variation (A42)  ·  0-1

ANALYSIS [x]

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Given 45 times; par: 29 [what's this?]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Feb-11-10  Marmot PFL: Black has several elements to work with - R and N attacking Be3, Bg7 attacking Nc3, white K exposed on 2nd rank. A fork with Ne3+ is sure to win material so 30...Rxe3 and 31...Qc2 are fairly easy to find. 19 f4? appears to be a bad mistake, weakening e3 as well as the white king position (already weakened by the missing fianchetto B).
Feb-11-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  johnlspouge: Thursday (Medium)

J Jirka vs Tkachiev, 2009 (20...?)

Black to play and win.

Material: Even. The White Kg2 has 4 legal moves and is vulnerable to Nxe3+ or Qe4+. The White Nc3 protects e4, but Bg2 can capture it, indicating one possible candidate. The White Be3 is attacked by Re8 and Ng4, burdening Qd2, Re1, and Ng5. The Black Ph6 can deflect Ng5, indicating another possible candidate. The Black Kg8 is vulnerable to 21.Qd5+.

Candidates (20...): Bxc3, h6

20Bxc3 21.Qxc3 [else, drop the N]

21Rxe3 22.Rxe3 [else, drop the B]

22Qc2+

(1) White can accept the sacrifice:

23.Qxc2 Nxe3+ forks Kg2 and Qc2, winning a N, then escaping

White can decline the sacrifice:

(2) 23.Kg1 [or Kh1] Qxh2#

(3) 23.Kf3 Nxh2#

(4) 23.Kh3 Qxh2+ 24.Kxg4 Qh5# (Dovetail #)

(5) On interposition of Qc3, Re3, or Rf1, Black captures and mates as above.

Feb-11-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  chrisowen: A sac will catch I eventually presume him out. Then Vlad frees Rxe3 (Bxc3 is not drack, you largely think it is still quite the impaler no?). The gory details..Qxc3 Rxe3 Rxe3 Qc2+!. He draws first blood..Rxe3 Rxe3 Qc2! the devilish follow-up..Re2 Qxd2 Rxd2 and Ne3+ the material does revamp, I rest my case.
Feb-11-10  Marmot PFL: <NoTimeToCheck> Black simply trades queens and white has no to time to recover the piece.
Feb-11-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  johnlspouge: < <dzechiel> wrote: I hope this move order still works. >

Toga evaluates the dual solution 20...<Bxc3> as better than 20...<Rxe3>. (Humans can improve near the end of the complete computer variations.)

[ply 15/38 value (to White) -2.54]

20...<Rxe3> 21.Rxe3 Qc2 22.Qxc2 Nxe3+ 23.Kh3 Nxc2 24.Nd5 Re8 25.Rf2 N2b4 26.Nxc7 Re7 27.Nge6 Na6 28.Nxa6 Rxe6 29.Nc7 Re1 30.Nd5

[ply 15/46 value (to White) -3.18]

20...<Bxc3> 21.Qxc3 Rxe3 22.Rxe3 Qc2+ 23.Qxc2 Nxe3+ 24.Kf2 Nxc2 25.Ne6 Rc8 26.Rd1 Kf7 27.Ng5+ Kg7 28.Ne6+ Kf6 29.Ng5 h6 30.Ne4+ Kf5 31.Nc3 N2d4 32.Nd5 a4 33.Ne3+ Ke4

It might be noted that the difference in value (approximately 0.5 P) adds up to a whole P in just 2 moves ;>)

Feb-11-10  JG27Pyth: This is one of those positions in which I was aided greatly by knowing it was a chessgames Thursday puzzle. Live OTB it would have been an entirely different story, but sadly today I followed the non-chess principles of position solving:

1. If there's an exchange sac to be played, by all means play it.

2. If there's a N check available, there's a N fork to be created with some unlikely deflection.

Applying my cheez-ee thinking process brought me the solution in about 10 seconds, far less time than it takes to melt cheese in a conventional toaster oven. I then calculated for another minute or two double checking to make sure I hadn't missed any defensive resources, which brought the full solution as played in the game.

No, I'm not proud of myself.

Feb-11-10  Marmot PFL: 10 seconds would be fast for me even on a Monday but who cares about speed? OTB this would be much easier as the move sequence 19 f4 Ng4 is almost a giveaway.
Feb-11-10  NoTimeToCheck: <marmot pfl> hmm, ok say we go qxq, nxq, rae8, exchange rooks and knights, i'd still fancy my chances more here than any other of the above scenarios (but maybe not enough to carry on!)
Feb-11-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: <agb> I know, I know ... several mathematical usages of 'conjugate', a clutch of sexual nuances - I think that's the appropriate collective noun - and so, wearily, on. But I don't find lack of agreement appalling: simply a mundane facet of everyday language.

I made this point, right at the end of the 'definitions' debate on yesterday's game. I think the confusion lies between chess itself (which is logical, rigorous, rule-governed and math-like) and chess *terminology* - which is as fuzzy and inexact as anything in a natural language.

Feb-11-10  beenthere240: The whole point of the combination is to win the knight on c3 by removing the guard. It just takes a while.
Feb-11-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: <johnlspouge: ...
It might be noted that the difference in value (approximately 0.5 P) adds up to a whole P in just 2 moves ;>
) >

As a direct application of the fuzzy law of not-so-large numbers shows... ;-)

Feb-11-10  Eduardo Leon: The first thing I saw was 20...♖xe3 21.♖xe3 ♕c2, which wins a piece and the game.


click for larger view

Some possible continuations are:

A) 22.♕xc2 ♘xe3+ 23.♔f2 ♘xc2 24.♘d5 ♖e8, etc. B) 22.♖e2 ♕xd2 23.♖xd2 ♘e3+ 24.♔f2 ♘xf1 25.♖d3 ♗xc3 26.♖xc3 ♘d2 27.♖e3, etc.

But the objectively best first move is even more forcing:

20...♗xc3 21.♕xc3 ♖xe3!

The reason why this is possible is that, after...

22.♖xe3 ♕c2+!

... white can't move the king, since he would get mated: 23.♔h1 ♕xh2#, 23.♔f3 ♘xh2#, 23.♔h3 ♕xh2+ 24.♔xg4 ♕h5#. Notice that, if there were a safe escape square for the white king, 20...♗xc3 would have actually been a bad move.

23.♕xc2 ♘xe3+ 24.♔g1 ♘xc2


click for larger view

This is line is better than...

A) Because it simplifies more material.
B) Because it doesn't let white grab the open e file.

Feb-11-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: <Domdaniel: <agb> I know, I know ... several mathematical usages of 'conjugate', a clutch of sexual nuances - I think that's the appropriate collective noun - and so, wearily, on. But I don't find lack of agreement appalling: simply a mundane facet of everyday language.

I made this point, right at the end of the 'definitions' debate on yesterday's game. I think the confusion lies between chess itself (which is logical, rigorous, rule-governed and math-like) and chess *terminology* - which is as fuzzy and inexact as anything in a natural language. >

I agree but I have the impression that language issues are not the only or even main reason for disagreement.

Feb-11-10  scormus: A deceptively tricky position. Winning a piece with the comination starting Rxe3 and picking up the B on c3 was easy to find, but there were so many alternate sequences .... some are better than others for black, and some let white win. Hard to find the right order looking just at the static board (important not to delay Qc2) and I failed to see that my choice would let the white Q set up #. I'll pretend that if I was playing it through I would see it in time. Most interesting is the alternative 20 ... Bxc3 looks like a cleaner sequence, and after all the captures it leaves black with a more favourable N position. In the game continuation the best play (I could find) leaves black's N awkwardly placed and white's R active. I see some kibitzers found this improvement, well done! If they saw it straight from the position then I'm out of my depth in this company.
Feb-11-10  David2009: Thursday's puzzle J Jirka vs Tkachiev, 2009 Black 20...? 20...Rxe3 21 Rxe3 Qc2 22 Re2 Qxd2 23 Rxd2 Ne3+ 24 K moves Nxf1 and Black emerges a piece ahead. If 22 Rf2 then Qxd2 23 Rxd2 Bxc3 gives a similar result. Time to check: =====
Yes. Now to digest the kibitzes and the game.
Feb-11-10  Dr. J: <<johnlspouge:> Toga evaluates the dual solution 20...<Bxc3> as better than 20...<Rxe3> ...

[ply 15/38 value (to White) -2.54]

20...<Rxe3> 21.Rxe3 Qc2 22.Qxc2 Nxe3+ 23.Kh3 Nxc2 (etc.)

[ply 15/46 value (to White) -3.18]

20...<Bxc3> 21.Qxc3 Rxe3 22.Rxe3 Qc2+ 23.Qxc2 Nxe3+ 24.Kf2 Nxc2 25.Ne6 Rc8 26.Rd1 Kf7 27.Ng5+ Kg7 28.Ne6+ Kf6 29.Ng5 h6 30.Ne4+ Kf5 31.Nc3 N2d4 32.Nd5 a4 33.Ne3+ Ke4>

John (or anyone), what happens after <Bxc3 21.Qxc3 Rxe3 22.Rxe3 Qc2+> 23. Kh3?

Feb-11-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: <Domdaniel: < a fork-conjugated pair > I don't want to even imagine what conjugal pair-forking might consist of ...>

LOL! And it's been a while since this site has done that for me.

Feb-11-10  dzechiel: <Dr. J: John (or anyone), what happens after <Bxc3 21.Qxc3 Rxe3 22.Rxe3 Qc2+> 23. Kh3?>

23...Qxh2+ 24 Kxg4 Qh5#

Feb-11-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: <Once: <Domdaniel: < a fork-conjugated pair > I don't want to even imagine what conjugal pair-forking might consist of ...>

LOL! And it's been a while since this site has done that for me. >

I had to make an effort to keep the serious tone...

Feb-11-10  cyclon: This is exceptionally nice. 20. -Rxe3 (only so!) 21.Rxe3 Qc2, Black wins immediately material, because besides threat is 22. -Qxd2+, White Queen is ALSO pinned - therefore Qd5+ is impossible. I don't see any reasonable move for White; 22.Qxc2 Nxe3+/22.Rd1 Nxe3+/22.Re2 Qxd2 23.Rxd2 Ne3+/22.Rf2 Qxd2 23.Rxd2 Nxe3+ 24.K- Bxc3/22.Rd3 Ne3+/22.Nc/ge4 Nxe3+/22.Nb1? Nxe3+/22.Re8+ Rxe8 - in ALL these instances White loses a healthy piece or more.
Feb-11-10  mrsaturdaypants: I'm trying to look for candidate moves - I swear I am. But I just keep getting drawn back to Rxe3, with the aim of setting up a knight fork on the same square. If that's the wrong start, I'm just not going to find the right solution today.

20...Rxe3 21 Rxe3 Qc2 22 Re2 (22 Qxc2 Nxe3, and black will be up a bishop) Qxd2 23 Rxd2 Ne3+ 24 Kg1 Nxf1, and black will be up a bishop. If 25 Kxf1, then Bxc3.

So the knight on c3, attacked by the g7 bishop and protected only by the white queen, is one of the keys to the position. This is a variation on "loose pieces drop off," and on overloading, but harder for me to see. I can't say that I recognized the c3 knight as vulnerable when I went down this line.

Time to check.

Feb-11-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: I didn't see <21...Qc2!!> It would have knocked my socks off.
Feb-11-10  Dr. J: <<dzechiel: <Dr. J: what happens after Bxc3 21.Qxc3 Rxe3 22.Rxe3 Qc2+> 23. Kh3?>

23...Qxh2+ 24 Kxg4 Qh5#>

Oops.

Feb-11-10  lzromeu: 20 ...Nxe3+ 21.Rxe3.rxe3 22.Qx3.Qc2+
and black win the knight
My way: Material advantage 3

The solution (K for R) material advantage 2

Or I miss something?

Feb-11-10  wals: Rybka 3 1-cpu: 3071mb hash: time 9 min: depth 20:

(-3.86) 20... Bxc3
21. Qxc3 Rxe3 22. Rxe3 Qc2+ 23. Qxc2 Nxe3+ 24. Kg1 Nxc2 0-1

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