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| Feb-18-10 | | YouRang: <OBIT: OK, it appears the line that determines whether this position is truly won for White is 20. Rxf7 Kxf7 21. Qh5+ g6 22. Qf3+ Ke8 23. Qf6 Kd7 24. Qg7+ Kc8 25. Qxh8+ Kc7 26. Qxh7+ Rd7 27. Qxg6 Qxb2. And, I'll just say I could not find a way to beat Crafty from here using the link from <David2009>. If anybody can find a way to beat Crafty, I'd be very interested to see the continuation.> I managed to win vs Crafty, but I have to say that Crafty blundered. Continuing from where you left off (after 27...Qxb2): 
click for larger view
I played:
28.Qb1 Qxd4
29.Qe1 Qxe5?
30.Qxe5 Nxe5
31.Bf4 (pinning N) Rd5
32.Re1 Kc6
33.Bxe5 (winning N) Rd2
34.g4 Rxa2
35.g5 Rf2
36.g6 Rf5
37.g7 Rg5
38.Rg1 Rxg7
39.Rxg7 (winning R) Kd5
Here, I assumed Crafty would resign (down R+B for 2 pawns) |
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| Feb-18-10 | | cyclon: This is actually more like a difficult puzzle. 20.Rxf7 Kxf7 [ -Nxd4 21.Qh5 g6 22.Re7+ Kd8 23.Rxh7+ wins/ -Nxe5 21.Re7+ Kf8 22.Qf2+ Kg8 23.Re8X/ -Qxd4 21.Rxg7 Kf8 [[-Nxe5 22.Re7+ Kf8 23.Qf1+ Kg8 24.Re8+ Kg7 25.Qf6X]] 22.Qf3+ Kxg7 23.Qf6+ Kg8 24.Qxe6+ Kg7/f8 25.Bh6X ] 21.Qh5+ g6 [forced] 22.Qf3+ Ke8 [-Kg8 23.Rf1 mates] 23.Qf6 Kd7 [-Qxd4-Nxd4-Rf8 24.Qxe6+ wins] 24.Qg7+ Kc8 [-Ne7 25.Bxe7 wins by the threat of discovering check - also Rh8 hangs ] 25.Qxh8+ and I prefer Whites chances. |
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| Feb-18-10 | | wals: Analysis by Rybka 3 1-cpu: 3071mb hash: depth 15 :
(+0.79)
20...Kxf7 21.Qh5+[] g6[] 22.Qf3+[] Ke8[] 23.Qf6[] Kd7[] 24.Qg7+ Kc8[] 25.Qxh8+[] Kc7 26.Qxh7+ Rd7 27.Qxg6 Qxb2 28.Rf1 Qe2 29.Rc1 Rxd4 20...Rd7 (+4.49)
Rd7 (+4.49)
(, 19.02.2010) |
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| Feb-18-10 | | cyclon: Okay, an excellent play by White. I didn´t consider a defence 20. -Rd7, which White seems to handle splendidly. |
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Feb-18-10
 | | scormus: <YouRang> Qb1! great find, looks better to me than Rc1 or Rf1. What was crafy thinking about with 29 ... Qxe5? why not 29 ... Qg4 and I don't know who's winning |
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| Feb-18-10 | | YouRang: <scormus> I just plugged it into my computer only to discover that 28.Qb1 wasn't even among the top 5 moves, lol. It seems to think (and I can't argue) that the best idea is 28.Rb1! and then start pushing the h-pawn for all its worth. I guess I'm happy to accept Crafty's blunder. :-) |
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| Feb-18-10 | | David2009: <YouRang> Congratulations! <scormus: What was crafy thinking about with 29 ... Qxe5?> This is an example of the 'event horizon' effect in computer chess. Crafty analyses about 5 or 6 moves ahead. It plays 29...Qxe5 expecting 30.Qxe5 Nxe5 31.Bf4 Rd5 32.Re1 Kd6 with no loss of material and allows for 33.g4 b5 34.g5 b4 end of analysis.
Only when it is 3 moves down this route does it realise that it has self-pinned all its pieces and so the g pawn will cost it an arm and a leg. Crafty does sometimes blunder at 5/6 move lookahead but, hey, that's part of the enjoyment. If it looked 10 moves ahead it would (a) move much more slowly (b) blunder much less (c) use much more server resources (it's free!) and (d) be much less fun to play. As user you can reset the position to explore different variations. From the Crafty link given earlier, open the link "Chess endgame simulator" on the left-hand side of the Crafty page and then follow the "Create your own ending" link. For example, you can override Crafty's blunder by inputting the Forsythe position with 29...Qg4:
click for larger view Zhigalko vs Obolenskikh 2010 <YouRang/scormus> variation. |
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Feb-18-10
| | scormus: <David> Thanks, I see what you mean. I like to think that everything from 20 Rxf7 up to 27 ... Qxb2 was "best play", so it would be good to know how it should have gone. |
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| Feb-18-10 | | WhiteRook48: found 20 Rxf7 easily |
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| Feb-18-10 | | YouRang: <David2009><For example, you can override Crafty's blunder by inputting the Forsythe position with 29...Qg4: > Okay, I tried that, but it only goes so far:
After 29...Qg4
30.h4 Qf5
31.Qe3 Rd3
32.Qf4 Qxe5? again - oops! ;-) |
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| Feb-18-10 | | butilikefur: <20. Rxf7 Kxf7 21. Qh5+ g6 22. Qf3+ Ke8> 22...Kg8 23. Rf1 mates <23. Qf6 Kd7 24. Qg7+ Kc8> 24...Ne7 25. Bxe7 wins material <25. Qxh8+ Kd7> 25...Nd8 26. Rc1+ Kd7 27. Qg7+ mates <26. Qg7+ Kc8 27. Qf8+ Kd7 28. Qf7+ Kc8 29. Qxe6+ Rd7 30. d5> and if the knight moves then 31. Rc1+ and Black must play 31...Nc6 to avoid mate after which 32. dxc6 and 33. cxd7+ is threatened as well as 33...bxc6 34. Rxc6+ winning the queen; Black never has a tempo for Re1+. |
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| Feb-18-10 | | butilikefur: missed 25...Kc7 which loses White his center pawns. instead it might be stronger to play <24. Qf7+ Kc8 25. Qxe6+ Rd7 26. d5> and Black can't just get out of it with 26...Nxe5 because of 27. Rc1+ Kb8 28. Qxe5+ Ka8 29. Qxh8+ |
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| Feb-19-10 | | eaglewing: <butilikefur: 24. Qf7+ Kc8 25. Qxe6+ Rd7 26. d5> I think, against this Black should defend with 26. d5 Qb5 27. Rd1 (Qf6 Nd8, else Qxd5) Nb4 and both pawns won't be enough for the rook. |
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| Feb-19-10 | | butilikefur: after 26...Qb5 White plays <27. dxc6 bxc6 28. Rc1 Kc7 29. Qf6 Rg8> (29...Re8 30. e6 Re7 [moving the rook elsewhere for example, 30...Rd3 31. Qf7+ Kg6 32. Qxe8 Qxg5 33. Qxc6+ - 30...Rd5 and White delivers a bishop check before taking on e8] 31. Qf4+ wins; also 29...R7d8 30. e6 Rdf8 threatening Rf1 [30...Rhf8 31. Bf4+ (31. e7 Rd1+ 32. Rxd1 Rxf6 33. Bxf6 Qe2 34. Rc1 is probably won) 31...Kb6 32. Kg6 Be3+ and now 33. e7 works as White has Bg1] 31. Bf4+ Kc8 32. Qd4) <30. e6 Rdg7 31. e7> and White is better |
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| Feb-19-10 | | butilikefur: aaaaah. just realized after 27. dxc6 Black has 27...Qxc6 28. Rc1 Kb8 but I would still rather White after 29. Qg4 Qb5 30. a4 Qd3 31. e6 |
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| Feb-19-10 | | eaglewing: <butilikefur>: Misunderstanding! I thought you would refer to a line,
which I've seen, with Qf7+/Qxe6+, where Ra1-f1 has been played already.
Then Qb5 attacks that rook and counters d5.
In your line, with the rook still positioned at a1, Black can answer
to <24. Qf7+ Kc8 25. Qxe6+ Rd7 26. d5> Qxb2 27. Rc1 Qxa2 and the d5 is pinned and soon be lost. Other rook moves at 27. might allow Nd4. |
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| Feb-20-10 | | butilikefur: just play 28. Qf6 and 29. dxc6 |
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| Feb-20-10 | | eaglewing: <butilikefur: just play 28. Qf6 and 29. dxc6> Due to 28. Qf6 Rhd8 29. dc Rd1+ White still loses. Someone remarked Rxf7 is a good line for White, staying passive would mean
getting under pressure with respect to the d4. But it looks like White has to retake the rook on h8 and be satisfied with a small advantage, which is difficult to win. The critical line remains the one with the Crafty-Link. BTW, <YouRang> my old Fritz plays 27. ... Qxb2 28.Qb1 Qxd4 29.Qe1 Rd5 and then wins the pawn. Quite drawish. |
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| Feb-20-10 | | butilikefur: nah eaglewing, the earlier line <20. Rxf7 Kxf7 21. Qh5+ g6 22. Qf3+ Ke8 23. Qf6 Kd7 24. Qg7+ Kc8 25. Qxh8+ Kc7> looks quite won with <26. Qxh7+ Rd7 27. Qxg6 Qxb2 28. Rb1> and 28...Qxa2 or Qxd4 are met with h4. |
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| Feb-21-10 | | eaglewing: <butilikefur> You did win against Crafty or another good computer program? My Fritz played Qxd4/h4/Qxe5 and pushing the h-pawn did result in counterattacks of Black, which stopped the advance. |
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Sep-04-10
 | | LIFE Master AJ: Analysis after 20.RxP/f7! (Maybe even - '!!')
20...Kxf7; 21.Qh5+ g6▢; (</= 21...Kf8??; 22.Rf1+ Kg8; 23.Qf7#); 22.Qf3+ Ke8; 23.Qf6, (This is the point of White's combination, Black is forced to cede material.) 23...Kd7; (Much worse is: </= 23...Rf8?? 24.Qxe6+, Ne7▢; QxN/e7#) 24.Qg7+! Kc8; 25.Qxh8+, "  " and White should win easily. |
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Sep-04-10
| | LIFE Master AJ: Gee, these guys names are awful hard to pronounce ... I wonder if they are Russian? |
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| Sep-04-10 | | acirce: Obolenskikh is Russian, Zhigalko is Belarusian. |
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| Oct-05-12 | | muratski: Black should have castled on move 17. Taking the knight on g5 gave white a lot of play. |
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Dec-26-19
 | | GrahamClayton: 19...exd5 20. e6 is very strong, but Black's attempt to keep the centre closed with 19...♖xd5 is refuted by 20. ♖xf7!. |
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