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Feb-14-10
 | | sbevan: < dzechiel: White to move (18?). White is down a bishop. "Insane." <sigh>, insane. Is it Sunday already? I must be time to sacrifice the queen. So, the double check looks like a good way to start. I'm thinking... 18 Nf6+
A double check. The king must move.
18...Kh8
Of course not 18...Kh6 19 Qxf4#.>
I agree except I kept looking at the Nxg5 move and I came up with the followingHow about:
19 Nxg5
Black has
19...fxe3
19...Bh6
19...Qg5
19...fxe3
20 h6 and I see no good defense
19...Bh6
20.Qf3 20.Qg5
20.Rg1 with threat of Nxh6 and Rg6
So
19...Qg5
20.h6 anyway
I'm probably missing something |
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Feb-14-10
 | | chrisowen: Hey pal is time it or did he just get outplayed? Is that a viable state black can hold? White is railing against Ng5+, the rushing in of the knight is too hasty, h6 gets the beers he bargained for. Dxe4 Bxe4+ Kg8 Qd3 is like mountain dew refreshing the attack. Whilst black does plod onwards 14.g4 is gold dust. Wrestling an angel like Gofshtein requires patience yet Tseitlin's pieces are a rabble ringed in the queenside. White rampages like a lion in zion, you tell a vivid picture via 10.h4 of spring. |
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| Feb-14-10 | | cyclon: A fabulous puzzle (again)! With little work I came into following conclusion: A) 18.h6 (more like an 'intuitive' -it "sounds" good - start) -dxe4 and now (are you ready?) 19.QXE4+ (only and I mean only so!) -Bxe4 20.Bxe4+ Kg8 21.hxg7 KF7 ( -Kxg7 22.Rh7+ Kg8 23.R1h1, mates) 22.gxf8Q+ Qxf8 23.Rh7+ Ke8 24.R1h1 Nd7 25.Bxa8 (Rh8?) -Qf5 26.Bc6 and in this position I quit analyzing - it seems that White is prevailing. B. 18.h6 Bxh6 19.Nf6++ Kg7 20.Rxh6, wins as you can analyze. C. 18.h6 Kg8 19.hxg7 fxe3, couple of choices > 19. -Kxg7 20.Nf6 Rxf6 21.exf6+ Qxf6 22.Rh7+ K- and White can afford to play 23.Qe5 concretizing/19. -dxe4 20.gxf8Q+ Qxf8 21.Qe2 (quite) and either -f3 22.Qe3, or exd4 22.Qxg4+ both should win/ 20.gxf8Q+ and NOW: -Kxf8 [ -Qxf8 21.Nf6+ Kf7 [[-Qxf6 22.exf6 exf2 23.f7+ wins]] 22.Rh7+ Qg7 23.R1h1 exf2 24.Nxg4 Whites clear edge f.e.-Ba6? 25.Rxg7+ Kxg7 26.Rh7+ White wins material] 22.Rh8+ Ke7 23.Rh7+ Kf8 [-Ke8 24.Nd6+ wins] 24.R1h1, mates. Some other continuations to 18.h6 are -Kg6 19.Nd6+ Kg5 [-Rf5 20.Qxf4] 20.QH3 gxh3 21.Rdg1+ Kh4 22.Bf1, wins/18. -Rf5 [worth considering] 19.hxg7+ Kxg7 20.Qe2 I prefer Whites chances though position is unclear/18. -Bxe5? 19.Ng5++, followed by 20.Qxe5/18. -Bh8?? 19.Nf6X. My analysis are non-pc- assisted/checked, so there might be mistakes. I would be most pleased if someone could point out some major flaws if there's to be found, but no problem if no-one bothers! It's really interesting to ANALYZE. |
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Feb-14-10
 | | Jimfromprovidence: I made an error in my original post. Here is the correction. <There is a fantastic solution waiting for kibitzers to figure out after 18...<Rf5> (instead of the text 18...dxe4).>
click for larger view |
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| Feb-14-10 | | David2009: Regarding Z Gofshtein vs M D Tseitlin, 1991 and the best defence 18.h6 Kg8, I am still not able to win as White against Crafty. Best for White seems to be 19.hxg7 fxe3 20.gxf8Q+
and now 20...Kxf8 (instead of 20...Qxf8 given by other kibitzers) seems to hold. 21.Rh8+ gives at most a draw (see my last post): 21.Nf6 keeps things alive. Crafty replies 21...Qc8 22.Rh8+ Ke7 23.Rxc8 Bxc8 24.fxe3 Ba6 25.Bxa6 Nxa6 
click for larger view (Gofshtein vs Tseitlin 18..Kg8 variation 26?)
and I cannot win this ending, e.g. 26.Rh1 Rf8 27. Nxg4 Rf7 28. Nf6 Rg7. I have real problems in getting my King into the game safely unless I exchange Rooks and if I do this Black seems to hold the N ending. Can anyone do better starting with the Crafty link to this ending? :
http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t... <sbevan: [snip] 18 Nf6+ Kh8 19 Nxg5 19...fxe3 20 h6 and I see no good defense> 20...Bf6 (see Craft link in my previous post). |
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| Feb-14-10 | | RandomVisitor: <jimfromprovidence>I see it but I will wait a bit to post so that others can find it :) |
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Feb-14-10
 | | scormus: Now I know why Sunday is insane. Glad its only once a week. My first thought was, all those attacking possibilities, double checks and all, this will be over in a couple of moves. WRONG! With the chances of white saccing the Q for a quick # I chose 18. h6 and was sure I'd get it easily. The h-pawn is poison but 18 ..... Kg8 19. hxg7 and white is going to win again with a Q sac, surely? WRONG! At this point I look at the text and see 18... dxe4 (which I didn't consider would present anything of a defense) followed by NEARLY 20 MORE MOVES. I ask myself, "how can I get the 1st move right and be so wrong about everything else?" I felt sure there must be an improvement leading to a quick win for white but can't find it <stukkenjager's analysis .. 20. Qe2!> looks to give black more problems than Qc3 but as long as black doesn't take the B I think it goes the same as in the text. After all this I wouldn't be surprised if someone finds a quick win with 19 Nf6++ <remolino .... evident. yeah right> I couldn't put it better myself. |
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| Feb-14-10 | | David2009: <Jim>, <RV> Here's one entertaining false trail after 18.h6 Rf5 (Jim's position):
19.Qxf4 Bxe5 20.dxe5 Rxf4 21.Ng5+ Kh8 22.Nxe6 Qe7 23.Nxf4
click for larger view So near and yet so far! Black to play and win. I still haven't cracked it: meanwhile here is a Crafty link to Jim's position
http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t... for solvers to check their variation. |
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| Feb-14-10 | | johnlspouge: Sunday (Insane):
Z Gofshtein vs M D Tseitlin, 1991 (18.?) White to play and win.
Material: Down a B. The Black Kh7 has 3 legal moves and is vulnerable to 18.Nf6++ or 18.Ng5++, as well as discovered check on any move of Ne4. The Black Pf4 threatens Qe3; the Black Pd4, Ne4. The next 2 moves must therefore be forcing or have defensive qualities. The White Rh1 x-rays Kh7, making 18.Ph6 an interesting candidate. The White Kc1 is secured from check. Candidates (18.): Nf6++, h6
18.h6 (threatening 19.Nf6++ Kh8 20.hxg7++ Kxg7 21.Rh7#) I could not see a distinct advantage after 18…Kg8, although Toga says it is there (+1.6 P). |
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Feb-14-10
 | | OBIT: I'm looking at this the next day after spending some time last night in a discussion about how to do a murder mystery. So, with my brain in Murder Mystery Mode right now, I immediately eliminate the double check as being too obvious. I am ready to accuse 18. h6 based on the continuation 18. h6 fxe3 19. Nxf6+ Kh8 20. hxg7+ Kxg7 21. Rh7#. To stop this mate, Black can either move the f8 rook, the g7 bishop, the king, or he can capture the knight, creating a myriad of possible defenses as befitting an insane puzzle. But, I'd imagine all the tries have been analyzed out by now, so I think I'll just peek at the answer.... |
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| Feb-14-10 | | cyclon: And yes, there it was- an awful mistake! 18.h6 dxe4 19.Qxe4??. I had originally (even on the paper), the 'natural' 19.Bxe4+ Kg8 20.Qd3 (I even considered this to be a good move!), but later gave it up for the "fabulous" 19.Qxe4+??, overlooking -Bxe4 20.Bxe4+ Rf5 -this move puts an end to Whites intentions. Something bothered me in the position whilst walking - could it be that simple? No it wasn't. I can hardly imagine computers to do such mistakes. |
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| Feb-14-10 | | tacticalmonster:
click for larger viewThere is one critical variation I obviously missed.
1 Qxf4 Bxe5 2 Ng5+ black has three critical candidates:2 Kg6, Kh8 and Kg8 a) 2 Kg6 3 Bxf5+ exf5 4 dxe5 Nd7 ( 4 Qxg5 5 Qxg5+ Kxg5 6 h7  ) 5 h7 Qh8 6 Ne6 followed by Qh6+ and Ng5 b) 2 Kh8 3 Qxf5 exf5 4 Nf7+ Kg8 5 Nxd8 Bf4+ 6 Kb1 Bxh6 ( If 6 Bc8 7 h7+ Kh8 8 Nf7+) 7 Rxh6 c) 2 Kg8 3 h7+ Kf8 ( 3 Kh8 tranpose to b) ( 3 Kg7 4 Nxe6+ Kh8 5 Qxf5 ) 4 Nxe6+ Ke8 5 Qxf5 |
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| Feb-14-10 | | cyclon: One possible line (after 18.h6 dxe4 19.Bxe4+ Kg8 20.Qd3) is: -Rf7 21.hxg7 Rxg7 ( -Kxg7 22.Bxb7 Rxb7 23.Rh7+) 22.Bxb7 Rxb7 23.Qg6+ Rg7 24.Qxe6+ Rf7 25.Qxg4+ Rg7 26.Qe6+ Rf7 and now that g-file is OPEN - 27.Rdg1+, but to find this kind of line originally was spoiled by my stupid hallucination 19.Qxe4+??. |
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| Feb-14-10 | | RandomVisitor: Perhaps 8...Nxg5 9.Nxg5 c5 would be a better plan for black, where we would have: 1: Zvulon Gofshtein - Mark D Tseitlin, Israel 1991
click for larger viewAnalysis by Rybka 3 : <20-ply> <1. = (-0.24): 10.Ngf3> Nc6 11.0-0 Bb7 12.Qe2 Rc8 13.Bb5 Qc7 14.h3 Nd8 15.Nb3 Ne6 16.Qe3 a6 17.Be2 2. = (-0.24): 10.0-0 Nc6 11.Ngf3 Bb7 12.Qe2 Rc8 13.Bb5 Qc7 14.h3 Nd8 15.Nb3 Ne6 16.Qe3 a6 17.Be2 |
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| Feb-14-10 | | David2009: Starting from <Jim's> variation 18 h6 Rf5!, <tacticalmonster> suggests 19.Qxf4 Bxe5 20.Ng5+ Kg6 21.Bxf5+ exf5 22.dxe5 Qxg5 23.Qxg5+ Kxg5 24.h7 from which the game presumably continues Nc6 25.h8=Q Rxh8 26.Rxh8 Nxe5
click for larger view
This is an extremely difficult position for White to win: Black is about to create two passed Pawns supported by his King and minor pieces. The sceptical kibitzer is invited to try to win it against Crafty using the next link:
http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t...
Gofshtein vs Tseitlin 18...Rf5 <tacticalmonster> variation 27? Even if it does not win, <tacticalmonster>'s move 20 Ng5+! is much better than alternatives (which seem to lose). |
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Feb-14-10
 | | Tabanus: <David2009> In that line, probably <22.Qxe5> Qxg5+ 23.Kc2 Qf6 24.Qxf6 Kxf6 25.h7 Nc6 26.h8Q+ Rxh8 27.Rxh8
click for larger viewThis should win easily. |
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Feb-14-10
| | Jimfromprovidence: <David2009> <Starting from <Jim's> variation 18 h6 Rf5!, <tacticalmonster> suggests 19.Qxf4 Bxe5 20.Ng5+ Kg6 21.Bxf5+ exf5 22.dxe5 Qxg5 23.Qxg5+ Kxg5 24.h7> Yes, 20 Ng5+ is the winning move in this variation. We liked (Rybka freeware and I) 22 Qxe5!? better, though. This move seems odd for white because it loses the knight and puts white in check as well after 22…Qxg5+. White then follows with 23 Kc2, below. 
click for larger viewBut white is ahead! He has a mate in one threat with Qg7+ that black has to answer with 23…Qf6. Now, after 24 Qxf6+ Kxf6 25 h7 white’s passed pawn cannot be stopped.
click for larger viewAfter promotion, black loses his rook. White will have an advantage of two rooks vs. the loss of a bishop, knight and pawn. |
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Feb-14-10
| | Jimfromprovidence: I see <Tabanus> beat me to the punch. David and others. I suggest you try the position again after 18 h6 Rf5 19.Qxf4 Rxf4, below. 
click for larger view This position is a lot of fun to figure out as well. |
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Feb-14-10
| | Tabanus: <stukkenjager: 18.h6 and it;s game over, insane seems about right.
18.h6 Kg8 (18...fxe3 19.Nf6+ Kh8 20.hxg7+ Kxg7 21.Rh7#) (18...dxe4 19.Bxe4+ Kg8 20.Qe2! Bxe4 21.Qxe4) 19.hxg7! fxe3 20.gxf8=Q+ Qxf8 21.Nf6+ Qxf6 (21...Kf7 22.Rh7+! Qg7 23.Rxg7+ Kxg7 24.Rh1 exf2 25.Rh7+ Kf8 26.Kd2 f1=Q 27.Bxf1) 22.exf6 Nd7 23.fxe3 1-0> Good to see an old World game warrior! :)
After 18.h6 dxe4 19.Bxe4+ Kg8 20.Qe2!
20...Qg5 21.Bxb7 Bxh6 22.Rxh6! Qxh6 23.Qxg4+ Kg7 24.Bxa8 f3+ 25.Kc2 Nd7 26.Bc6 Nb8 27.Rg1 should win. |
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| Feb-14-10 | | WhiteRook48: I thought it was 18 Nf6??+ Kh8! 19 h6?? Bxf6!
oh, white can still win spectacularly, but not as spectacularly, and it's a rather stupid delay to the brilliant attack w 18 h6 |
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| Feb-14-10 | | tacticalmonster:
click for larger viewa) 19 Qxf4!! Rxf4 20 Nf6++ Kh8 21 hxg7++ Kxg7 22 Rh7+ Kf8 23 Rdh1! 
click for larger viewWhite is down a queen but surprisingly black has no defense! a1) 23 Rxf6 24 Rh8+ Ke7 25 exf6+ Kd7 26 R1h7+ Kc8 27 Bb5!! - black can not stop the promotion of f pawn a2) 23 Qxf6 24 exf6 Bc6 ( if 24 Nc6 25 Rxb7 Kg8 26 Bh7+ Kf8 27 Bg6 Kg8 28 f7+ Kg7 29 f8=Q++ Kxf8 30 Rh8#) 25 Rh8+ Kf7 26 R1h7+
Kxf6 27 Rf8+ Kg5 28 Rg7+ Kh6 29 Rg6+ Kh7 30 Rxf4 - white is up material with mating threat b) 19 Qxf4!! dxe4 20 hxg7+ Kxg7 21 Qh6+ Kf7 22 Qh7+ Ke8 23 Qg6+ Kd7 24 Rh7+ Kc8 25 Qxe6+ Nd7 26 Qxf5 exd3 27 e6 c) 19 Qxf4 Kg8 20 Qxg4 Qe7 21 Nf6+ |
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| Feb-14-10 | | patzer2: For today's Sunday Valentine's day puzzle, Cupid has given us a position (18. ?) where White is down a piece and has two other pieces enprise. Yet White does have a strong potential double discovered check available, but without reinforcements it appears not to be enough to force the win. So how does White exploit this situation? He ignores the threat to his Queen and Knight, and instead plays the surprise 18. h6!! to peel open the h-file, bring his Rook into play and exploit Black's weakened King position. This leaves White's Queen immune from capture due to the threat 18...fxe3?? 19. Nf6+ Kh8 20. hxg7+ Kxg7 21. Rh7#. However, White must still calculate other complications when, in addition to the game continuation, he has to find the difficult win 18... Kg8 19. hxg7 fxe3 20. gxf8=Q+ Qxf8 21. Nf6+ Kf7 22. Rh7+ Qg7 23. Rxg7+ Kxg7 24. Rh1 exf2 25. Rh7+ Kf8 26. Kd2! when play might continue 26...Bc6 27. Bg6 Be8 28. Bxe8 f1=N+ 29. Ke2 Ng3+ 30. Ke1 cxd4 31. Rf7#. |
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| Feb-14-10 | | patzer2: Before 18. h6!!, White set up his winning attack with the previous h-file opening sacrifice 15. h5! . Here an attack on the enprise Knight is ignored to gain a decisive advantage. After 15. h5!, Black's best is 15...g5 as in the game continuation and anlyzed above by <RandomVistor>'s Rybka 3 program. If 15...gxf3, White wins with 16. hxg6+ when play might continue 16...Kg8 17. Bxh6 cxd4 18. cxd4 Qc7+ 19. Kb1 Ba6 20. Nxe4 dxe4 21. Bxe4 Bb7 22. Bxb7 Qxb7 23. Bxg7 Qxg7 24. Rh6 Rf5 25. Rdh1 Nd7 26. Rh8+ Qxh8 27. Rxh8+ Kxh8 28. Qh6+ Kg8 29. Qh7+ Kf8 30. g7+ Ke8 31. g8=Q+ Rf8
32. Qxe6+ Kd8 33. Qhxd7#. |
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Feb-14-10
| | Jimfromprovidence: <tacticalmonster> <18 h6 Rf5 19 Qxf4!! Rxf4 20 Nf6++> Try 20 Ng5++ as well.
click for larger viewThis thread is worth exploring. |
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Feb-15-10
| | scormus: <Jim> 18 .... Rf5. Thanks for suggesting this Byzantine continuation! 20 Ng5++ Nice, White's N and B running riot. It took some finding though. |
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Kibitzing
sac: 16.Nxg5+