Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing
Pierre Charles Fournier de Saint-Amant vs Lionel Kieseritzky
Paris (1840), Paris FRA, Feb-02
Italian Game: Classical Variation. Center Attack (C53)  ·  0-1



Get this game explained with Decode Chess
explore this opening
find similar games 2 more Saint-Amant/Kieseritzky games
PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: If you do not want to read posts by a certain member, put them on your ignore list.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.


Kibitzer's Corner
May-11-12  AVRO38: After 33.Qxa7 Qxe6 34.Rxd3 Black has nothing.
May-11-12  Octal: Doesn't white still have some drawing chances in the final position? Assuming he doesn't trade rooks, and also assuming that he just resigned here instead of playing on and we have no documentation of the rest of the game.
May-11-12  AVRO38: Although Black has more chances after 33.Qd7, the win is not at all clear. I suspect the game score is wrong or perhaps the game was abandoned for some reason.
May-12-12  thomastonk: <Octal> The final position is a clear draw because White wins one of Black's queen side pawns by 36. Rd5.

<AVRO38> According to my database of ancient games, the game has been published three times with the given game score, and once with a completely different finish, departing with 31.. a6.

Premium Chessgames Member
  jnpope: The game is given in Le Palamède, v4, 1839, pp88-89, and ends with: <Cette partie a eu encore plusieurs coups insignifiants, elle devait être remise, elle a été perdue par une faute de la part des blancs.>
May-12-12  AVRO38: <thomastonk><The final position is a clear draw because White wins one of Black's queen side pawns by 36. Rd5.>

No question about that. The point is that Black has some play due to his more advanced pawns and king, not enough to win against best play, but White's job is more difficult. For example, after 36...Ke6 37.Rxb5 Rxd7 38.Ra5 g5 White has to be very careful. After 33.Qxa7 however, the path to a draw is much easier.

Mar-26-17  williamschill: I wonder if White rejected 7.Bd5 worrying about 7..Nxf2?!
Mar-26-17  Duracell: He rejected that because it is a non-development move, and that 7...f5 keeps the Knight into play. Besides, 7...Nxf2?! is a bad sacrifice, even if it has miraculously worked (after some White's bad moves) in the famous Hoffman-Petrov available here: F A Hoffmann vs A Petrov, 1844
Mar-26-17  Duracell: Holy correction, Batman!
7...Nxf2 is the only move that holds somewhat the game according to engines. But still White has an edge.
Jun-20-17  sneaky pete: I found a (secondary) source with the alternate score mentioned by <thomastonk>.

31 ..a6

click for larger view

32.Qe7 Rf8 33.Re1 Qd8 34.Qa7 Qh4 35.Rd1 Qe4 36.Qxa6 Qe2 37.Rf1 Re8 38.Qb6 d3 39.Qxb5 Qe3+ 40.Kh1 Rxe6 41.Qb8+ Kf7 42.Qf4(?) Qxf4 43.Rxf4 d2 44.Rd4 Re1+

click for larger view

White resigns.

This score looks more likely to me than what we have here. I think <Le Palamède> messed up. Possibly their reporter Méry lost interest, thinking the game would end in a draw, started drinking and was unable to reconstruct the right final moves afterwards.

It's just a theory. I'm not saying that Méry was a drunkard, but he was a poet. And black played ... d3, .. Rf8 and ... Kf7 at some point, so he had at least that part right.

Aug-31-17  mifralu: <Cinquante parties jouées au cercle des échecs et au café de la Régence / recueillies par L. Kieseritzky, 1846,p.42-43>

has the same score mentioned by <sneaky pete> except for White's 40th move, here <Kh2>

The Date given is February 2, 1840

Premium Chessgames Member
  Sargon: Game score has been updated to comport with that given in the link by <mifralu> and suggested by <sneaky pete>, with the replaced moves noted in the annotation at the end...
Jan-13-18  sneaky pete: If white had really played 40.Kh2 .. as shown in that <Cinquante parties> link, he could have tried 45.Rxd2 .. instead of resigning (and black might have played 43... Rd6).

Page 42 seems to end the game with 43.Rxf4 .. and note 10 (by Lewis) is cut off. I'd like to see page 43 of that <Fifty Games>.

NOTE: Create an account today to post replies and access other powerful features which are available only to registered users. Becoming a member is free, anonymous, and takes less than 1 minute! If you already have a username, then simply login login under your username now to join the discussion.

Please observe our posting guidelines:

  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate, or gibberish posts.
  3. No vitriolic or systematic personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No cyberstalking or malicious posting of negative or private information (doxing/doxxing) of members.
  6. No trolling.
  7. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by moderators, create a false impression of consensus or support, or stage conversations, is prohibited.
  8. Do not degrade Chessgames or any of it's staff/volunteers.

Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.

Blow the Whistle

See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a moderator.

NOTE: Please keep all discussion on-topic. This forum is for this specific game only. To discuss chess or this site in general, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of, its employees, or sponsors.
All moderator actions taken are ultimately at the sole discretion of the administration.

This game is type: CLASSICAL. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

<This page contains Editor Notes. Click here to read them.>

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
The game is given in Le Palamède, v4, 1839, pp88-89
from K Players of Yesteryear by fredthebear
The game is given in Le Palamède, v4, 1839, pp88-89
from Published Games by Year and Unconfirmed Source 1 by fredthebear
The game is given in Le Palamède, v4, 1839, pp88-89
from Short games by masters by rbaglini
sadanand mahajan's favorite games
by sadanand mahajan
The game is given in Le Palamède, v4, 1839, pp88-89
from Short games by masters by Southernrun

Home | About | Login | Logout | F.A.Q. | Profile | Preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | New Kibitzing | Chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | Privacy Notice | Contact Us

Copyright 2001-2021, Chessgames Services LLC