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Paul Morphy vs Charles Maurian
Odds game (1866) (unorthodox), New Orleans, LA USA, Nov-07
Chess variants (000)  ·  0-1

ANALYSIS [x]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Feb-14-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: Offending moves removed, but it's best to keep a record of them, in case further dispute arises. Another source may turn up, or the extra moves could prove to be analysis.

<30. Nf3 Nc6 31. h4 Rfd7 32. Bf4 Nd4 33. Nxd4 Rxd4 34. Re2 Bc6 0-1>

Feb-14-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: ***

First link refers to a different game, it is this one which also finished on 29 moves. Morphy vs Maurian, 1866

Macon Shibut's book on Morphy has the original moves from here added (moves 30-34) but following the 0-1 adds:

'after some further, unrecorded moves.'

Not saying Macon is correct, the position is resignable, even for a Morphy at move 29 but Macon's note gives the impression the game went on even longer than we originally had. Though I cannot see why. The position is hopeless.

***

Feb-14-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: <Miss Sally>, do you have access to the 1978 <BCM>?
Feb-15-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: ***

Not at the moment, (club closed) might have some loose copies, have a box of about 200 BCM's and CHESS's mixed era's. Which month?

***

Feb-21-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: <BCM - Lawson published "Unknown Morphy Games" in the BCM in August 1978 and September 1979.>

I don't need a list of all the games but if you can give the gist of what he says about the process of acquiring them.

Feb-21-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: ***
Hi,

I'll have a good rack about and see what BCM's I have. Meanwhile you might find something in Lawson's 'Pride and Sorrow. if you do not own a copy there is a full PDF of the book here: (I have not read it yet)

https://xn--80aaa5asd7agcy5a.xn--p1...

He lists his sources. He might give a place you have not searched.

Now off to find and gather all my BCM's and see what I have.

***

Feb-21-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: But these games appeared in the <BCM> two years after publication of <Pride and Sorrow>, of which, yes, I have a Kindle copy. The new games must be a collection he amassed gradually over the years, but there might be something of particular interest.
Feb-21-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jean Defuse: ...

BCM Sep 1979: https://www.mediafire.com/file/g4jy...

<Sally Simpson> The August issue 1978 gave the scores of 53 Morphy games. Is it possible to scan these pages?!

...

Feb-21-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: ***

Hello Again,

Thought the articles were about how he acquired the games for his book. Also link says it's a New Edition printed in 2010 so have to assume the newly discovered games are in there.

Have over 100 loose BCM's only 4, June, July, October and November from 1978 - only one from 1979 (I have about three times as many loose Chess's).

The 1979 BCM is January and gives the 1978 index saying pages 354-367 are 'unknown Morphy games.'. It does not say how many.

Some lock down restrictions may be eased in a week or so. I live 5 minutes from the Edinburgh Club who have bound volumes as well as thousands (no exaggeration) of loose BCM's. I will look then.

A bit odd looking at these old magazines, I can remember some of the 30, 40, 50 year old headlines as if they were last year. The October 1978 introduces it's readers to Kasparov with this game. Kasparov vs A N Panchenko, 1978

I have a lot more CHESS's from the 70's because I played in the CHESS postal chess team and individual events, the magazine published the results so I subbed to them.

***

Feb-21-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: <Thought the articles were about how he acquired the games for his book.>

You thought wrong. It's largely game scores, and I can see from the second article, posted by <JD>, that sources aren't provided for the individual games. But I assumed - and am still hopeful - the August 1978 piece has some degree of introductory text explaining the circumstances of the collection.

<Also link says it's a New Edition printed in 2010 so have to assume the newly discovered games are in there.>

You assume wrong, I'm afraid. This second edition is my Kindle edition. The foreword explains that the games section included in Lawson's book was omitted from this edition because all of Morphy's games are so readily available online.

In other words, you need to get the August 1978 article.

When you say you can't get down to the club for at least a week is that because i) you won't have the keys until then or ii) you do have the keys, but are too afraid to leave the house because the trip could be constituted as non-essential travel?

Feb-21-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: ***
Hello Again,

I'm out everyday (shopping if questioned, but really just walking about enjoying the peace and quiet and wearing a mask means I do not have to shave or put my teeth in!)

The club is closed, We are not allowed in (it's the law, a £1,000 fine)

I would class this as essential travel and but telling the judge the August 1978 BCM holds the key and a possible cure to covid might not work.

I'm still waiting to get another bundle of Aitken books. I was doing them 5 books at a time.

They did not want to give me all the books at once for fear I would lose them like I did the Staunton letters which had the score of a game between him v Morphy. I forget who won. (I left them on a bus) that was years ago and they still go on about it.

I can fully relate to your frustration and eagerness to see what the article says I'll get it to you as soon as I can.

Did some poking about - Charles Whipple (for it is he) was 89 when his book on Morphy was published - https://www.chesshistory.com/winter... l

Kindle?

I was given one of them for Christmas a few years back. Still unused. Books are better. You cannot swot a fly with a kindle.

***

Feb-22-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: <I would class this as essential travel and but telling the judge the August 1978 BCM holds the key and a possible cure to covid might not work.>

If I offer to buy that edition for the cover price of about £0.60 or so, you would then be classed as an essential retailer.

Strange that there should be two <C Whipple>s in chess history. C H Whipple

<I was given one of them for Christmas a few years back. Still unused. Books are better. You cannot swot a fly with a kindle.>

The experience is much better since they put out an app allowing you to use it on a tablet.

Feb-22-21  sneaky pete: Lawson in his introduction to 53 Unknown Paul Morphy Games in the August 1978 issue of BCM: "Most of the games hitherto unpublished were found in the notebooks of Charles A. Maurian ..." and "They [the notebooks] were begun late in 1853 ..."

He gives 15 games with Maurian. The present game is not one of those, it may have been published in the September 1979 issue, missing from my library.

Some of the other games (with Schulten, Löwenthal and others) had been (re)published before, some not. One of the Löwenthal games is a phony and several games contain apparent clerical errors.

Feb-22-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: ***

Thanks Sneaky,

I'll scan in the pages of both BCM's when I get access.

***

Feb-22-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: <Jean Defuse> already provided a kosher link to the September 1979 issue.

<Some of the other games (with Schulten, Löwenthal and others) had been (re)published before, some not.>

Some of them had appeared in the games section of Lawson's book, but without the original edition to hand, I know not which.

Feb-22-21  Z 000000001: Lawson's 1976 book originally contained a section of 60 games, in a Part II, as mentioned by Thomas Aiello in the 2010 edition.

It seems unfortunate to me that Aiello elected to delete the games from his modern edition, as mentioned in "A NOTE ON THE TEXT" intro by same.

So, I guess the kindle edition would also be lacking Part II.

Am I wrong then to think most of the games were in Lawson's 1976 edition, and were republished (with/without corrections?) in the Aug 1978 and Jan 1979 BCM?

Like <Jean Defuse>, I would greatly appreciate having the Aug 78 scan of the games.

Does Shibut also have the games in his edition, again, with/without corrections?

Also, does anybody list the original sources for the games? I don't think Lawson does from the material I've seen.

.

Feb-22-21  Z 000000001: Correction: Jan 1979 -> Sep 1979 ?
Feb-22-21  sneaky pete: Lawson in the August 1978 BCM: "With the exception of a very few, given in recent years to small magazines, and a few more appearing in the recently published biography of Paul Morphy, none of these games, bar two, were ever re-published."

So only a few of the 1978 BCM games were published in the Pride and Sorrow book.

The <re-published> refers to games that had been published in newspapers and magazines (around) a century earlier and had been dug up by Lawson. the <bar two> may include the phony game with Löwenthal, that was erroneously included in the 1909 reprint of Löwenthal's collection of Morphy games.

Feb-22-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: Am I right in thinking that Shibut's book is both an analysis of Morphy's play and intended to be a complete games collection?
Feb-22-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: ***

Just reading the back of the book blurb.

"The first collection in English of all 413 of Morphy's known games."

However he does admit on page 337 'Addendum' that he did not know about the games published by Lawson in the 1978 and 1979 BCM's.

He then gives the score of an extra 53 games - the main part book stops at game 413. The extra 53 are not counted in the back of the blurb.

***

Feb-22-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <However he does admit on page 337 'Addendum' that he did not know about the games published by Lawson in the 1978 and 1979 BCM's.>

Publisher Dale Brandreth sniffs in a postscript, <Morphy did indeed play many more causal games than are presented here, but in many cases it is unlikely that any records were kept....Naturally, it is questionable how much value there is in lop-sided routs of weak neophytes.> So call off the search dogs, I guess.

Feb-23-21  Z 000000010: Z 000000001: Here's a screenshot of <Sally>'s info:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon...

* * * * *

Speaking of calling off the dogs, can anybody tell me why <Z 000000001> should be on restricted kibitzing?!

The guy was never on Rogoff, nor even posted a political message once on <CG>? Maybe there's an anti-Z bias on <CG>?

.

Feb-23-21  Z 000000010: Oh, bad link, let's try again:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon...

.

Feb-23-21  Z 000000010: For completists, one might suppose <batgirl> would deliver, and indeed she does:

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/ge... (use wayback to resolve)

References a stale link to her PGN collection of Morphy games:

<This file contains all known games of Paul Morphy, carefully scutinized for accuracy. A great many of the games are annotated with relevant historical commentary.>

<CG> has 461 Morphy games,
<batgirl> has 474.

Perhaps she included stubs, or maybe some of the more questionable games <CG> reclassified (though I"m sure Sarah noted the dubious as such)?

Has anybody reconciled the collections perchance?

Oh, and does anyone know if her collection has moved elsewhere on the web?

.

Jun-19-21  paulmorphy1969: i controlled Lawson in Unknown Paul Morphy Games dont have any game whit date 1966.
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