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The World vs Natalija Pogonina
"Flat Earth Society" (game of the day Feb-01-2011)
Chessgames Challenge (2010) (exhibition), chessgames.com, rd 1, Aug-31
Indian Game: Anti-Nimzo-Indian (E10)  ·  1/2-1/2

ANALYSIS [x]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 220 OF 1069 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Sep-15-10  whooops: whooops: I run an analysis of 8. ... b6 over night. Right now Ne5 is in front. In the line black protects c6 with the LSB, white exchanges on d5 :-( and then plays Ne6 attacking Q and BSB. So black exchanges on c6. And voila, we have the B-pair. The continuation of the line is not impressive tough and leads to an evaluation of +0.12 (current standing).

Still, I just love the B-pair. With a good plan to exploit it we might increase the pressure.

Sep-15-10  hms123: <DPLeo> posted this comment:

<After 8.Qc2 this is what the Huge Book opening database has for the main line: 8...b6 9.Bf4 Bb7 10.Rd1 Nbd7 11.Nc3 Rc8>


click for larger view

I found 27 games (both players above 2500) with <+9 -3 =15>.

4.2 Moves from the report position

Move ECO Frequency Score AvElo Perf AvYear %Draws

1: Ne5 19: 70.3% 60.5% 2604 2680 2005 58%

2: b3 4: 14.8% 87.5% 2003 25%

3: Rac1 3: 11.1% 33.3% 1999 67%

4: e4 1: 3.7% 50.0% 2001 100% ________________________________________________-
_______________
TOTAL: 27:100.0% 61.1% 2594 2687 2004 56%

The position after <12.Ne5> was reached 28 times (some by transposition) with a score of <+8 -4 =16>. The position after <12.b3> led to a score of +5 -1 =3> (again, some transpositions). <12.Rac1> led to +0 -1 =2> and <12.e4> led to <+0 -0 =1>.

There is much to like about reaching this position if we can.

There were only 4 games with both players above 2600. They were <+2 -1 =1> White played <b3> and <Ne5> in the two wins, and played <Ne5> in the loss ( Beliavsky vs Yusupov, 1997 )and the draw.

Sep-15-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  WinKing: <hms123> love the stats partner keep em' comin'. Always had a weakness for numbers whether relevant or not & I think these are quite relevant for the team.
Sep-15-10  hms123: <WinKing> Thanks. My goal is to educate everyone as to the possibilities and the relevant data. I am generally not advocating for a particular move (or line), although I do use the data to help me decide on my vote.
Sep-15-10  whooops: < hms123, DPLeo After 8.Qc2 this is what the Huge Book opening database has for the main line: 8...b6 9.Bf4 Bb7 10.Rd1 Nbd7 11.Nc3 Rc8>

cool stuff

if we get to that position <b3> looks like the move. b3 now does not look that good, why? How about the deviation of Ba6?

Sep-15-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: I like the approach Razuvaev uses in this Catalan game.

He centralizes his pieces and keeps them centralized throughout while probing for weaknesses.

Once he hits on the right idea, he quickly pounces for the kill and wins:

Razuvaev vs Eingorn, 1986

Sep-15-10  YouRang: From <RV> forum:

<<8.Qc2 b6 9.Bf4>

[+0.06] d=26 9...dxc4 11.Bxb8 Rxb8 12.Nxc4 c5 13.dxc5 Bxc5 14.Rac1 Bb7 15.Rfd1 Qe7 16.Nfe5 Rbc8 17.Qb3 Rfe8 18.e3 h6 19.Nd3 Red8 20.a4 Ba6 >

Interesting that OE doesn't show any games where black plays <9...dxc4>. Anyone know why?

BTW, I have a hard time getting excited about playing Bf4 just so we can exchange it for the Nb8 (as shown in <RV>'s line), which arguably helps black by putting his rook on a better square.

So, I'm currently looking at the variant where it continues:

<10.Nbd2 Nd5 11.<Nxc4> Nxf4 12.gxf4>


click for larger view

While I don't like opening the g-file so much, it does look like black's development is suffering relative to white's. I'll let the engines stew on this a while...

Sep-15-10  hms123: <<<Announcement>>>

<<<Rinus Award>>>

<<<Please nominate a <non-premium> member who is making a significant contribution to the World Team. There are many who are, so we hope that you will take a moment to nominate as many of them as you wish. You may post nominations at my forum User: hms123 between now and October 1. We will announce the winner of a one-year premium membership some time during the first week of October. Thank you.>>>

After Peter started this effort, User: zanshin headed it up for a while with help from User: kutztown46, me (User: hms123, and others. User: zanshin asked me to take on the leadership of this effort. I, in turn, asked User: WinKing to join us.

This is the original announcement from <chessgames.com>:

(Chessgames Challenge: M Umansky vs The World, 2009 ) chessgames.com: <The Rinus Scholarship>

For several years, User: chesstoplay (Peter) devised and managed "The Rinus Scholarship", an effort designed to give premium memberships to people who contribute to the World Team's success. The Rinus Scholarship is named in memory of the Chessgames member User: rinus who passed away in August of 2008. Rinus was the first recipient of this award, and remains a shining inspiration to the World Team.

Sadly, due to health problems Peter can no longer continue this effort. Fortunately, some members stepped forward to take over the job. To help ensure its success, we have now incorporated the Rinus Scholarship directly into our website, allowing anybody to donate a premium account directly to the fund. This fund will then release premium accounts to members of the World Team, at the judgement of the new managers.

From time to time you'll be seeing a small banner ad to the left of the board soliciting donations. The proceeds from donations made to this fund will not only purchase a premium membership for a deserving user who may not otherwise be able to afford one, but also will go into a special account used to finance future Chessgames Challenges. In this way, we hope to hire the very finest grandmasters in the world to step forward and take the challenge. So each dollar donated serves two purposes: you put a smile on somebody's face today, and in the future you put a smile on thousands of people's faces when a new Chessgames Challenge begins.

If you are able, please consider donating to worldwide chess learning through the Rinus Scholarship. Either click on the banner ad when it comes around, or better yet, click on this link right now to make a donation: Gift Membership Page .

Sep-15-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  Hugin: I struggles with motivation in this game.
Not sure why...Perhaps just tired. Perhaps it was a mistake for me to continue the game after the horrible start....Whatever u are plenty that can do the hard work. I quits the game. Best of luck to the team.
Sep-15-10  weisyschwarz: <chancho> I like that game too. We need to develop a multi-move strategy to dictate the momentum as did Razuvaev. Move-by-move popularity can only go so far.
Sep-15-10  TheFocus: Looks like Pogo can resign in this position. That attack by White that is coming will force her into early retirement. We ought to be ashamed for doing that.
Sep-15-10  LIFE Master AJ: < <Sep-15-10> RandomVisitor:> <LMAJ> <Bad news. Some kind of technical problem.>> <When a PC runs all the time doing chess analysis, the processor can get quite hot. Hot enough to cause your machine to stop working.>

<You might try to download some software to tell you what the temperature of your processor is. If it is too hot, you might need to put an external fan on your processor. At one point I had fans running on all my PCs.>>

<I water-cool one of my PCs for this very reason.>

<By the way, keep up the good work - I am impressed with your input to this game.>

Thanks.

Sep-15-10  Zendokun: So we moved Qc2 huh? So now she will respond with either b6 or dxc4.She could also play Nbd7 but it doesn't seem to do anything to solve the LS Bishop problem. Have any Queen moves been played here by Black?
Sep-15-10  CLAUSECHECS: IF:8...Nbd7, then: 9. Bf4!
Sep-15-10  Garech: <LMAJ>

in the event of the desired 8. ... b6 and your recommendation of 9.Ne5 what do your engines give as best play, just out of interest? Anything along the lines of:

9.Ne5 Bb7 10.Rc1 Nbd7 11.cxd5 Nxe5 12.dxe5 Nxd5 13.a3 Bc5 14.Nc3 Qb8 15.Ne4 Be7 16.f4 Rd8 17.b4 Rc8 18.Bf3 c5 19.Qb3 cxb4 20.axb4 Rxc1+ 21.Rxc1

Stockfish 1 8 JA : +0.12. Depth: 24. ♘odes: 512.4 M

?

Sep-15-10  Thanh Phan: I hope <chesstoplay / Peter> are doing ok, it all times hard to hear of others having problems, ~take care Mr. chesstoplay / Peter
Sep-15-10  LIFE Master AJ: <<<<<<Sep-15-10> Domdaniel:> <LMAJ>>

What RV says is *so* true.> I've had a couple of comps burst into flames that way.>

BTW, I'm also very impressed by your analysis of the position. You know your Catalan.>

Thanks - again.

I have been curious about "water-cooled" systems. But to convert mine to that would take a ton of cash, I'm afraid.

My tower has about six to eight fans, and each "thinking chip" also has its own (little) fan. I try to keep the house cool and I have a fan in my living room that blows on both me and my computer ... we are both hot-natured I guess.

Sep-15-10  Ezzy: <Garech: <Ezzy>

Thanks for those directions - I now have Stockfish operational!>

You're most welcome. Now lets see those winning lines spew from your computer :-)

Sep-15-10  LIFE Master AJ: Razuvaev vs Eingorn, 1986

<Sep-15-10 chancho: I like the approach Razuvaev uses in this Catalan game.

He centralizes his pieces and keeps them centralized throughout while probing for weaknesses.

Once he hits on the right idea, he quickly pounces for the kill and wins:

Razuvaev vs Eingorn, 1986>

Another good game, thanks <chancho> for pointing this out.

I commented on it, not to show off, but to help the site. While its easy to get totally focused on this game, (I have obsessed more than just a little ...); we should remember that - while this game will be over one day - we are always (loyal) CG-dot-com fans and "true believers."

Sep-15-10  LIFE Master AJ: <Sep-15-10 Garech: <LMAJ>

in the event of the desired 8. ... b6 and your recommendation of 9.Ne5 what do your engines give as best play, just out of interest? Anything along the lines of: ... ... ... >

Check the engine room, I have posted a ton of stuff there. (And I am still working on it.) Believe it or not, as soon as we entered the Catalan, I identified this as one of the possible lines of play. We call it the "Bogo-Cat," some early opening books don't even look at it!!!

I was actually doing only my second or third "deep position analysis" (on possible ninth move alternatives - see a few of my earlier posts) when my box had a hiccup. (Had to re-boot. I actually shut down for half an hour ... following RV's <indirect> recommendation to let my tower cool off.)

Sep-15-10  deathdefier: sorry; my last comments were a little bit confusing;

1.) ad <Caruana-Nielsen> (i don't know how to provide a link) and <Aronian-Alekseev>

8. Qc2 Nbd7, 9. Bf4 b6, 10. Rd1 Bb7,
11. Nc3 and now dc4
12. Nd2 Nd5 13. Nc4 Nf4 14. gf4
and just look into the structure!

2.) <Drozdovskij-Karjakin> transposition (QI):
8. Qc2 b6 9. Rd1 Ba6 10. b3 Nbd7
11. a4 and now c5
12. Na3 Bb7 13. Qb2 Ne4 14. Be1 Bf6
15. e3 a6 (its not new) 16. b4 (i think this move is new, but seems to be dubious) ...

Sep-15-10  LIFE Master AJ: <Garech>

From the engine room:
<<<<<Sep-11-10 <LIFE Master AJ:>> After over 10 hours of analysis ... >

[750MB, Fritz-12.] 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nf3 d5 4. g3 Bb4+ 5. Bd2 Be7 6. Bg2 O-O 7. O-O c6 8. Qc2 b6;>

The # 1 move is 9.Nc3 " " +0.47; 29 ply. 4,320 kN/s>

I am continuing to let it run.>

Earlier, I posted that I liked Ne5, Rd1, Bf4, and Nc3 for White. (Move nine.)

Sep-15-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  cro777: <Thanh Phan> Her most probable answer is 8...b6. After that ,in theory, 9.Rd1 Ba6 are considered to be the best line.
Sep-15-10  Garech: <LIFE Master AJ:

Check the engine room, I have posted a ton of stuff there. (And I am still working on it.) Believe it or not, as soon as we entered the Catalan, I identified this as one of the possible lines of play. We call it the "Bogo-Cat," some early opening books don't even look at it!!!

I was actually doing only my second or third "deep position analysis" (on possible ninth move alternatives - see a few of my earlier posts) when my box had a hiccup. (Had to re-boot. I actually shut down for half an hour ... following RV's <indirect> recommendation to let my tower cool off.)>

Aha! Nice one - I checked it out, our engines disagree but you searched much deeper than I, so it's no surprise. I posted my analysis in the analysis tree anyway at the node 9.Ne5 - you may want to update it with your better analysis or it might mislead people.

On that note I'd like to remind everyone of the importance of please posting your analysis in the analysis tree! One of the biggest advantages we have over GMP is our greater computing power - so it's imperative that we use this advantage effectively. Posting in forums is grand but it becomes very difficult to navigate when there are 220+ pages of commentary.

So, if you do some deep analysis - please update the analysis tree; there's a text box where you can cut and paste the line at each node (some may find entering every move to be a little tedious). Just a reminder, thanks!

-Garech

Sep-15-10  Thanh Phan: Sounds good thank you <cro777> will try get my computer looking in that way
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