< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Nov-07-10|| ||azax: <OBIT>, 89. g4+ Kg5 90. Qd8+ Kh6 91. g5+ Kh5 92. Qe8+ Kg4 93. Qa4+|
93. ...Kh5 Qd1+ and 94. Qf3.
93. ...Kxg5 94. Qc6.
Where the perpetual is stopped, or
89. g4+ Kg5 90. Qd8+ Kg6 91. Qg8+ Kh6 (...Kf6 92. Qh8+) 92. g5+ Kh5 93. Qh7+
93. ...Kxg5 Qg8+ and 94. b8=Q
93. ...Kg4 94. Qh3+ Kxg5 (...Kf4 95. b8=Q+ Qxb8 96. Qg3+) 95. Qg3+ and 96. b8=Q
As I'm pretty tired, there's a reasonable chance there's some mistake in my lines, but I hope not. I'll work on any that get pointed out.
|Nov-07-10|| ||OBIT: I think I managed to solve 89. g4+ Kg5 90. Qd8+ Kg6: |
91. gxf5+ (I see <azax> posted some analysis with 91. Qg8+) and now:
(a) 91...Kxf5 92. Qf8+ followed by b8=Q
(b) 91...Kf7 92. Qc7+ Kf6 93. b8=Q Qxf2+ 94. Kh3 Qf3+ (94...Qf1+ 95. Kh4 and the checks soon run out) 95. Qg3 Qh1+ 96. Qh2 Qf3+ 97. Q8g3 Qh5+ 98. Qh4+, ho ho...
(c) 91...Kg7 92. Qc7+ Kh6 (92...Kf6 93. b8=Q transposes to line b) 93. Qh2+ followed by Qg3+ and b8=Q
(d) 91...Kh7 92. Qh4+ followed by Qg3+ and b8=Q
(e) 91...Kh6 92. Qh4+ followed by Qg3+ and b8=Q
(f) 91...Kh5 92. Qe8+ Kh4 (92...Kg5 93. Qg6+ followed by Qg3+ and b8=Q) 93. Qe4+ Kg5 (93...Kh5 94. Qf3+ Kh6 95. Qh3+ followed by Qg3+ and b8=Q) 94. Qxe3+ Kxf5 95. Qg3 Qxb7 96. Qf3+ Qxf3 97. Kxf3
I'd imagine there are some shortcuts in these lines :)
|Nov-07-10|| ||OBIT: <Azax:> After 89. g4+ Kg5 90. Qd8+ Kh6 91. g5+ Kh5 92. Qe8+ Kg4 93. Qa4+
Kxg5 94. Qc6, Black still has a perpetual with 94...Qxf2+ 95. Kh3 Qh4+ 96. Kg2 Qf2+ etc.|
|Nov-07-10|| ||Nostrils: 89. g4+ Kg5 90. Qd8+ Kg6 91.gxf5+ Kf7
seems to be blacks best line.
|Nov-07-10|| ||Once: Doncha just hate it when somebody foils your plan? Well, doncha?|
I wake to find that today's puzzle has been well and truly solved by m'learned colleagues. It's like an orange that has been sucked dry til all that is left is the soggy plashy stuff in the middle. <rilkefan>, <phony>. <jim>, <OBIT> and <azax> have pretty much nailed this one. Excellent analysis there, fellas!
So where did white go wrong? Like yesterday's puzzle we have a strong position but we need to avoid a perp. Black threatens Qxf2+ followed by Qf1+, Qf2+, Qf3+, repeat until bored.
So white needs a plan. And a man in need of a plan is a dangerous thing.
Well, I left Kentucky back in '49
An' went to Detroit workin' on a 'sembly line
The first year they had me puttin' wheels on cadillacs
Every day I'd watch them beauties roll by
And sometimes I'd hang my head and cry
'Cause I always wanted me one that was long and black.
One day I devised myself a plan
That should be the envy of most any man
I'd sneak it out of there in a lunchbox in my hand
Now gettin' caught meant gettin' fired
But I figured I'd have it all by the time I retired
I'd have me a car worth at least a hundred grand.
White's plan was pretty simple. He would sac the g pawn to draw the black king into the open, then check him repeatedly until the white queen could take the e3 pawn with check.
But there's a problem with this plan ...
Now, up to now my plan went all right
'Til we tried to put it all together one night
And that's when we noticed that something was definitely wrong.
The transmission was a '53
And the motor turned out to be a '73
And when we tried to put in the bolts all the holes were gone.
So we drilled it out so that it would fit
And with a little bit of help with an A-daptor kit
We had that engine runnin' just like a song
Now the headlight' was another sight
We had two on the left and one on the right
But when we pulled out the switch all three of 'em come on.
The problem for white is that he cannot force the black king onto h6 or g5 and that means that he cannot take the e3 pawn with check. The black king wibbles between h4 and h5 and white cannot make progress.
White needed a more subtle plan. 90. Qh2 would have kept the promotion threat going and allowed white to escape from the perp. Kudos and a big yee-haaah to anyone who spotted this today.
The back end looked kinda funny too
But we put it together and when we got thru
Well, that's when we noticed that we only had one tail-fin
About that time my wife walked out
And I could see in her eyes that she had her doubts
But she opened the door and said "Honey, take me for a spin."
|Nov-07-10|| ||dzechiel: White to move (89?). White's up a pawn. "Insane."
Queen and pawn endings all seem to be "insane" to me. I don't think I even want to try this, but I'll give it a little time.
OK, white does have the extra pawn, and it is about to promote. But black has two threats that must both be dealt with:
1 - Qxb7+
2 - Qxf2+
Now, the white queen currently has no good check on the black king, and some kind of forcing move is definitely in order. The only thing I can see is
This is forcing (a check) and black has limited replies:
Well, first off...
loses quickly to
90 Qg3+ Kg5 91 b8=Q
For the same reason...,
goes down to
90 Qg3+ Kh5 91 b8=Q
It's late and I'm running out of steam. We had a big blitz tournament this evening (21 player round-robin) and I didn't get home until late. Time for me to check and see how this game ended.
|Nov-07-10|| ||OBIT: <Once:>Actually, I think there was still a loose end in 89. g4+ Kg5 90. Qd8 Kh6, so the position hadn't been sucked bone dry just yet. But, I think I can fix that right now:|
Instead of my original suggestion 91. g5+, let's go with the more forcing 91. Qh4+. After 91...Kg7 (or 91...Kg6 92. Qh5+ Kg7 93.Qg5+, transposing) 92. Qg5+:
(a) 92...Kf7 Qxf5+ followed by another queen check and Qxe3. Winning Q + two connected pawns vs Q is reasonably straightforward.
(b) Ditto 92...Kf8 Qxf5+
(c) Ditto 92...Kh7 Qxf5+
(d) 92...Kh8 93. Qxe3 Qxb7+ (93...fg 94. Qe8+ followed by b8=Q+) 94. Qf3 Qany 95. Qxf5
|Nov-07-10|| ||Frankenstein17: Rybka finds 89.g4+ in depth2. Computers are far away greater than humans.|
|Nov-07-10|| ||OBIT: Also, in the 90...Kg6 line, I think <Azax's> 91. Qg8+ is more efficient than my 91. gxf5+. IMO, the key line is 91. Qg8+ Kh6 92. g5+ Kh5 93. Qh7+
Kxg5 94. Qg8+ Kh6 95. b8=Q Qxf2+ 96. Kh3 Qf3+ 97. Qbg3 Qh1+ 98. Qh2 Qf3+ 99. Qgg3 Qh5+ 100. Qh4, and the pin foils Black's perpetual.|
|Nov-07-10|| ||C4gambit: I know everyone here loves to read masterpieces from <Once> or in depth analysis from <Phony Benoni> or <Jimfromprovidence>, and usually don't care about boasting comments like "i cracked it in half a second...". But I always face trouble to find my way out of a Wednesday puzzle and never even bother to give a try at the weekend problems. So when, a rarity, I have found the way out of this perp position for white, I want to scream and let all know I FOUND IT !! Well... almost.. I knew black could always not accept the g pawn, and didn't know how white can win from there... but that is enough insanity for me.|
|Nov-07-10|| ||Brandon plays: Qd1+ e2 Qxe2+ Qxe2 and queens by white with him a pawn up? Probably not then... Oh well.|
|Nov-07-10|| ||rapidcitychess: Thsi is a <much> easier sunday puzzle. Probably because 89.g4+ is the only try for the win.|
|Nov-07-10|| ||David2009: M Socko vs M Dziuba, 2008 White 89?
click for larger view
Black is threatening the Pb7 and also to draw by repetition/ perpetual check starting 89...Qxf2+. So try 89 g4+. Now 89...Kxg4 allows 90 Qg6+ Kf4 or Kh4 91 Qg3+ (protecting f2) Ke4 or Kh5 92 b8=Q and wins; so
89...fxg4 If now 90 Qh2+ Kg5 91 b8=Q Qxf2+ 92 Kh1 and there is no perpetual check for Black. The Black Pawn
on e3 obstructs the manoeuvre Qe1+, Qe4+ followed by perpetual check from the squares g1, e4 and h7. Perpetual check can also be given from
e1, f3 and h5 but the Pg5 gets in Black's way. These perpetual checks were discovered by Lolli circa 1760.
[When I first started on this puzzle I was convinced that I had to find something better than Qh2+ Kg5 91 b8Q because of the Lolli draw with Qe1+, Qe4+ etc for Black. So I gave up trying to solve from the diagram and set it up on the chessboard - when all became clear. An example of chess blindness]
Crafty EGT check to make absolutely sure:
http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t... Yes the win
POSTSCRIPT (having now read <Jim>, <Phony Benoni>, <OBIT> and others): "What about Kg5?" - I didn't even consider it and I should have done. Fortunately Qd8+ followed by b8Q and a King walk via h3 to escape the perpetual checks is fairly easy to find. Crafty EGT link with colours reversed: http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t...
|Nov-07-10|| ||azax: <OBIT>, I like your idea of trading down into the 2P up endgame, and as of yet I can't find anything better. I'm hoping I can revive something in the old g5+ idea, but I'm not too sure it'll work.|
<rapidcitychess>, The first move of the line is fairly obvious, but as you can see, we've all had to work together to work out the various sub-variations.
<David2009>, 89. g4+ Kg5 90. Qd8+ Kxg4 91. b8=Q Qxf2+ and there is no walk to h3.
|Nov-07-10|| ||okba12: iwould play king toh3 at move 89 for white|
|Nov-07-10|| ||WhiteRook48: aw man i failed, I said Qf4|
|Nov-07-10|| ||chrisowen: G-four strikes at the heart of black position kh5. Dig yo I love to see black gush queen down. There's gold these 'arn hills. King picks his spot that stand. Pity he against qh2+ and shovels it sideways instead.|
|Nov-07-10|| ||chrisowen: Dude sculpt a rig queen pans for a foothold. Handle checks labour occult. King go heads up stale white sand down leg, boots drilled queen trapping it intensive daze of thunder little head-way, hikes.|
|Nov-07-10|| ||redorc19: my possibilities were Qd1, g4(!) and Qd3. Not particularly analysing the position much, i guessed that Qd1 would also lead to a draw. But g4 seemed unsound to me, even though Black can't escape perpetual check.|
|Nov-07-10|| ||riverunner: [long-winded self-righteous explanation] 90. Qh2 +, as revealed in the annotation to everyone.|
|Nov-07-10|| ||David2009: <azax: [snip] <David2009>, 89. g4+ Kg5 90. Qd8+ Kxg4 91. b8=Q Qxf2+ and there is no walk to h3>. Not immediately, but see <Jim's> post for the refutation of your deferred Kxg4.
To repeat: 91 Qg8+ Kh4 (if Kh5 or Kg5 then Qg3+ etc as in my earlier post M Socko vs M Dziuba, 2008) 92 b8=Q and h3 is free (but I agree with you that White has to play Kh1 rather than Kh3 to escape the checks). The "walk to h3" is needed in lines where the BK does not take the P: e.g. 89. g4+ Kg5 90. Qd8+ Kg6 (if Kh6 91 Qf8+ followed by Qxf5+) 91. gxf5+ Kf7 92.b8=Q! Qxf2+ 93 Kh3 etc.|
|Nov-07-10|| ||wals: Beyond me.
Rybka 4 x 64
depth: 14 : 4 min :
(+2.01):23...Qd8. Best, a4, +0.79.
depth: 18 : 8 min :
(+2.52):29...Rd7. Best, Rc8, +1.58.
depth: 18 : 2 min :
(+1.58):30.Qc5+. Best, Ng5, +2.52.
depth: 17 : 2 min :
(+2.04):36...d3. Best, Qe5, +1.05.
depth: 21 : 2 min :
(=0.03):45.g3. Best, Qc1, +1.90.
depth: 24 : 4 min :
(+1.13):46...Qh7+. Best, Qc2, =0.01
depth: 25 : 5 min :
(=0.00):58.Qd4. Best, b5, +1.96.
depth: 27 : 16 min :
(+2.33).58...Qb3. Best, Qh5+, +1.70.
depth: 25 : 4 min :
(+2.90):59...Qb1. Best, Qa4, +1.79.
depth: 23 : 5 min :
(+11.87):61...e5. Best, Kf7, +2.90.
depth: 20 : 5 min :
(+2.91):63.Qd5. Best, b6, +11.87.
depth: 25 : 5 min :
(=0.00). Qd8+. Best, Qd7, +2.90.
depth: 22 : 4 min :
(+#22):76...Kg5. Best, Kf6, +3.00.
depth: 25 : 58 min :
(+#80):76...Kg6. Best, Kg4, +#24
depth: 20 : 5 min :
(+2.91):82.Qd8. Best, Qe6+, +#22.
depth: 17 : 2 min :
(=0.00):83.Qd6+. Best, Qb8, +2.90.
depth: 21 : 4 min :
(+#79)83...Kg5 is best.
depth: 21 : 2 min :
(=0.09):90.Qc5. Best, Qh2, +#21.
and the game fizzled out to a draw.
Blunders, Black 10. White 8.
|Nov-07-10|| ||patzer2: For today's Sunday puzzle, the little clearance pawn sham sacrifice 89. g4+! clears the way for a check and a promotion to give White a won game after 89...fxg4 90. Qh2+!|
I lucked into finding this continuation, to avoid the perpetual, but couldn't quite figure how to handle the reply 89...Kg5.
After 89. g4+ Kg5, White gets the decisive advantage after 90. Qd8+! Kxg4 91. Qg8+ Kh5 92. b8Q .
|Nov-07-10|| ||LIFE Master AJ: Extremely complicated ...
I looked at this chess puzzle for about 25 minutes this morning, after feeding my daughter Tater.
I finally decided on g4+!, before going back to bed for a couple of hours.
However, I thought (without the aid of a chess engine) that PxP was a mistake and that Black had to dance with his King.
|Nov-08-10|| ||njchess: I got 89. g4+ readily enough which forces fxg4, but after that, I could do no better than find a draw by perpetual for White.|
I looked at the notes of Qh2+! and still cannot see a win for White e.g 90. Qh2+! Kg5 91. Qg3 e2 92. Qe3+ Kf5. At some point, both advancing pawns will be traded or you might get 93. Qxe2 Qxe2 94. b8=Q and I still see a draw.
In the case of both sides having more than one queen, the side that queens first most likely wins given the advantage in tempo.
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