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Alexander Grischuk vs Hikaru Nakamura
Tal Memorial (2010), Moscow RUS, rd 9, Nov-14
Dutch Defense: Semi-Leningrad Variation (A81)  ·  1/2-1/2

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 20 OF 22 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Nov-14-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  tamar: <Shams> lol

Home schooling are you?

Nov-14-10  rilkefan: I recommend Sakurai's text if the goat has a good grounding in math (physics calculus, linear algebra, some group theory), otherwise _Quantum Mechanics_ by Griffiths is good.
Nov-14-10  Shams: <rilkefan> Are those available in audiobook? The paper editions don't last long, for reasons you can guess.
Nov-14-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  tamar: Goats pick up Chaos Theory even when very young.
Nov-14-10  extremepleasure2: Domdaniel,

If it's so easy why is that we don't see any GMs doing the same thing on ICC and beat Rybka? Why is that the other players are not allowed playing with ''preloaded'' moves as well? Isn't this cheating?

Nov-14-10  extremepleasure2: hedgehog,

Let's wait until Tuesday and see it.

Nov-14-10  Jim Bartle: I have seen no evidence presented that Nakamura cheats on ICC except that he is able to play extremely quickly. That <may> be evidence against him, but it's not enough by itself.

Is there any other evidence against Nakamura?

Nov-14-10  Shams: <Jim Bartle> That evidence would be awfully thin. All the bullet players pre-move on ICC these days.

Of course, there is the testimony provided by Goldsby, to the effect that Nakamura cheated, based on the fact that (are you sitting down?) Nakamura beat Goldsby. Really a mountain of evidence we're piling up here.

Changing the subject, who would be a good trainer for Nakamura?

Nov-14-10  Jim Bartle: I think any trainer for Nakamura would have to be somebody who would not try to change Nakamura's basic approach to playing (try to mold him into acting and playing like other type players), yet would have enough standing not be a pushover and would stand up for his ideas when Nakamura disagreed.

No idea who that might be.

Nov-14-10  Shams: Yeah, even up until a couple years ago I might have said disagreed with you and suggested that maybe Nakamura <did> need to retool his game, perhaps dramatically. But clearly you are right.

We need a "Team Nakamura" that goes beyond the kid himself and his AI guru buddy.

Nov-14-10  BTO7: <extremepleasure2> Takes one to know one. Doubt very much a Super GM has to cheat....maybe you need the video of Naka spanking Magnus just after Magnus won the world blitz last year or is that video been modified and some how manipulated so we couldnt see Naka's cheating. You obviously dont play chess.
Nov-14-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: <Shams> -- < When you're done with that, I have a goat out in the yard for whom you can attempt to explicate quantum physics.>

Heh heh. As long as it's not a flat-Earther goat I might have a better chance.

Nov-14-10  hedgeh0g: I imagine it would be quite difficult to play 270+ moves in 3 minutes while constantly referring to an engine. Not to mention that if Nakamura WAS cheating, what better engine to use than the one he was playing against?
Nov-14-10  Open Defence: < Kazzak: For those wanting to relive the tragedy. The video is still up, and Naka starts making the fateful Qf3 move at 21:52 http://video.russiachess.org/browse...; the somebody get me a bucket look...
Nov-14-10  iamsheaf: <FYI no player can make 90 moves within 1 minute as this's physically impossible in the first place> Really!?
Nov-14-10  iamsheaf: <He makes 270 reasonably strong moves within 3 minutes that can force such a formidable player like Rybka to resign.> There is no rule which forbids you to think on your opponents time. Moreover, cheating requires more time than simply playing OTB. Finally how do you cheat rybka?! with Crafty I bet :-)
Nov-14-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: The goat balks at the uncertainty principle. If I understand its bleats correctly, it also says that photons cheat by acting like waves when everyone knows that they are particles.
Nov-14-10  MWYOUNG: Nakamura does not cheat on ICC. The people that think this must never play on ICC, or other chess sites. You can play many move on these site using no time on your clock by using PREMOVE!

ICC Help: premove
"Premove" is a feature in BlitzIn, Dasher, Jin, and other interfaces. It allows you indicate a move while it's your opponent's turn. As soon as your opponent moves, your interface plays the pre-prepared response (if it's a legal move). In a 1-minute game or a desperate time scramble, this can save a split second over the old technique of hovering with your piece over the square and releasing as soon as you see an expected move. But of course it's dangerous, in that the pre-prepared move might be a blunder, if the opponent does something unexpected.

See the documentation for your interface on how to configure and use premove.

For those who feel adamantly that premove is unfair and who don't want to play against anyone who has premove, it is possible now to put !premove in your formula, e.g. "set formula !premove" and "set useformula 1" before doing "seek". That will block all challenges except from users of older versions of Blitzin, users of a couple other clients that chess server knows don't have a premove feature, and users of Blitzin 2.5 who have premove disabled.

Nov-14-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  tamar: <Domdaniel> I wouldn't start your goat on Dvoretsky right away.

They like to ruminate, but that might be hard to digest.

A big leafy book of mates. Just toss it in the garden. They'll find it.

Nov-14-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jambow: I think 81 ...Qxg3+ 82. Kh1 ...Qf3+ 83. Kh2 or Kg1 ...Qxe4 and whats left but the win for black. Seems I could have brought it home from there and the moves look straight forward.
Nov-14-10  rilkefan: "The goat balks at the uncertainty principle."

You should try telling it about the Feynman (or path integral) formulation of QM, which is a lot less spooky and just-accept-this. If it's upset about indeterminism, there are full-causality papers I could point it to.

Nov-14-10  Akavall:


click for larger view

Of course 88.Kxh4?? would be a terrible blunder 88... Kxh4 Qh1+ 89. Kg4 h5+ 90. Kf4 Qf1+ 91. Ke3 Qe1+ 92. Kf4 Qxe5+ 93. Kxe5 Kg5

Nov-14-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  chancho: Naka after realizing that he blew the game when he played 84...Qf3:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qS7n...

Nov-15-10  Kazzak: My goat went to the original German, and is complaining that "Uncertainty Principle" is vague and imprecise compared to the original Unschärferelation, which the goat says makes perfect sense in the context.
Nov-15-10
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: In addition to the win that he missed after seven hours of play, more than eighty moves, and with hardly any time left on the clock, Nakamura may also regret a relatively easy win that he missed under much more comfortable conditions – shortly after the first time control, following 43.Nh4:


click for larger view

Here, the removal of the knight from f3 allows 43…Qe1! (instead of Qe7) which should win much more easily – it pretty much forces off a pair of rooks (unless White is willing to give up yet another pawn - 44. Ra2 Qf1+ 45. Qg2 Qxc4) under much more favorable conditions than in the game, when Black’s pieces are more actively placed and he can start pushing his a-pawn immediately.

But Grischuk deserves a lot of credit for his stubborn and resourceful defense – with 3 pawns down, he managed to put many obstacle’s in Nakamura’s way, and when Nakamura finally managed to break through them it turned out that he was a bit too tired, or not quite sharp enough, to take full advantage of it. To give one example:


click for larger view

Here (after 44…Rf6) Grischuk played 45.c5! The pawn cannot be captured - 45...Qxc5?? 46.Rd7 R6f7 (46...R8f7 47.Rd8+ Rf8 48.Rd7 etc.) 47.Rxg7+! Rxg7 48.Rxg7+ Kxg7 49.Qg6+ Kh8 50.Qxh6+ and perpetual; but besides posing this rather obvious trap, the move does a couple of important things – it makes it harder for Black to activate his Q-side pawn majority, and it opens the a2-g8 diagonal for threats against Black’s king – a few moves later, 50.Kh2 (removing the king from the way of …Qd5+) threatens a draw by 51.Qa2+ Kh7 52.Qb7, and this made Nakamura play 50…Qe6 and give up the b7 pawn.

This game, as well as the one against Kramnik from this tournament, should be an important experience for Nakamura with regard to how difficult it is to beat the top players, and how important it is not to let opportunities slip when you get the chance to do it.

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