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Pia Cramling vs Edson Kenji Tsuboi
Manila Olympiad (1992), Manila PHI, rd 14, Jun-24
Gruenfeld Defense: Exchange. Classical Variation (D86)  ·  1-0

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Feb-20-11  David2009: <al wazir: <David2009: This is the best week I have had for some time, sooring 6.5/7 on the classical scale, 1+2+3+3+3+4+4= 20/28 on the <al wazir> scale> Well, now that you mention it, I had a fairly good week myself (1+2+3+4+0+4+4). If I hadn't rejected 25...Qh3 on Friday, I would have broken the 20 barrier.>

Alas I have failed to break 20 after all. <Once> is back in top form: P Cramling vs E Tsuboi, 1992 (extract) <34. Kf1? Now Fritz is tut-tutting. "Zis is a mistake!" he cries. "Ze sauce is curdled, zere are bones in ze raw fish. Vot about Kh1?" Or in chess terms, the eval has fallen from over +9 to just +1.2> So I lose a point for preferring Kf1.

The wrong Crafty End Game Trainer link was given in my first post (P Cramling vs E Tsuboi, 1992) - the right EGT link is http://www.chessvideos.tv/endgame-t... After 30. Rc8 <Now Fritz recommends a plain side dish of 30...Rxd7 31. Rxd8 Rdxd8 32. Ra1. Nutritious for white, but hardly exciting.> This time the EGT decides to live dangerously and go down the 30...Qxd7 route. Computers are so unpredictable aren't they? Enjoy demonstrating the win remembering to play Kh1 and not Kf1 when checked - and no, I don't understand why the EGT gives up that further N in the main line either...

Feb-20-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  Once: My favourite almost-sushi story is about the sea cucumber. It's a marine animal which is apparently difficult to cook, expensive and has little taste of its own. So when you cook it you have to add a flavour with the spices and sauces that you use. About the only two things going for the sea cucumber are that it has a gelatinous texture and may (just "may") have medicinal properties.

Now, I freely admit that I was brought up in the provincial north of England where the closest we got to a cosmopolitan culinary experience was putting horseradish sauce on our roast beef. And serving roast beef without Yorkshire puddings was considered a heinous crime punishable by excommunication to the softy south.

But I have to say that I just don't get the sea cucumber. Paying more for something just because it is rare and difficult to cook, but it doesn't taste of anything?

Tried it <once> and ... there won't be a second time. The aforementioned "gelatinous texture" was more of a drawback than an advantage.

Feb-20-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <Once> I have a possibly related story. I’ve known this sushi chef for at least 25 years. He knows that I will try anything, so when I went to his place I just sat and he served me without my having to order. Occasionally those around me would wonder how come I was being served without ordering anything, and how come what I was being served was “different” from what they were being served.

One time the sushi chef gets a little brown bottle with Japanese writing on it and serves me some of its contents in a little cup. The man sitting to my left asked me what it was and I said (as it often happened) “I have no idea”.

So he asked the sushi chef and the chef at first ignored him. The man persisted and the sushi chef then said it was “special”. The man still persisted and the sushi chef finally said that it was the inner lining of a sea slug.

The man then turned to me and said “Buddy, I used to think of myself as an adventurous eater, but you are way out there!”

I tried to find out if a sea cucumber is the same as a sea slug. At least in the USA there seems to be some controversy as to whether they’re the same or not. I also found some recipes for sea cucumber of which the following is sure to be your favorite:

“Put it in a poly bag, tie at the top, and the put it in the garbage.”

Feb-20-11  Harvestman: <AylerKupp> If the US uses the same nomenclature as the UK, then a sea cucumber is related to starfish, and a sea slug is related to snails and octopus. Completely unrelated animals.
Feb-20-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: A position from a Queen's Gambit, perhaps.

White has the bishop pair for a bishop, a knight and a pawn.

The black castle has many weak points. In particular f6 can be further weakened with 30.Rc8:

A) 30... Qxd7 31.Bxf6+

A.1) 31... Rxf6 32.Rg8+ Kh6 33.Qxf6 (threats 34.Qh4#)

A.1.a) 33... Be7 34.Qg7+ Kg5 (34... Kh5 35.Qxh7+ Kg5 36.Qxg6+ and mate next) 35.Re5+ Kf4 (35... Kh4 36.Qh6#) 36.Rf8 Qf5 37.Rfxf5+ gxf5 38.Qg3#.

A.1.b) 33... Qf5 34.Qxd6 + - [R vs N].

A.1.c) 33... Kh5 34.g4+ Kh6 35.Qh4#.

A.2) 31... Kh6 32.Qe3+ and mate in two.

B) 30... Rxd7 31.Rxd8 Rdxd8 (31... Rfxd8 32.Bxf6+) 32.Ra8

B.1) 32... Bc7 33.Qe7+ Rf7 34.Bxf6+ Kg8 35.Qe6 with many threats (36.Bxd8, 36.d6, 36.Rc1, etc.).

B.2) 32... Nc4 33.Rxa6 again with several threats (34.Bxf6+ Rxf6 35.Ra7+, 34.Ra7+ and 35.Rb7, etc.).

B.3) 32... Bb4 33.Qxa6 trying 34.Rxa5 and 34.Qxb5.

Feb-20-11  DarthStapler: I at least considered the first 3 moves but I didn't see that the rook on f6 would be hanging and I also thought that black could escape with Kh6 after Bxf6+
Feb-20-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sneaky: This is astoundingly deep even though the variations are mostly forced. I wonder, do computers have trouble solving this or do they get it very quickly?
Feb-20-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  johnlspouge: < <Sneaky> wrote: This is astoundingly deep even though the variations are mostly forced. I wonder, do computers have trouble solving this or do they get it very quickly? >

Hi, Sneaky. Toga agrees that the combination is astoundingly deep. It took 2 sec to decide on 30.Rc8. For a computer program, that is an eternity.

Feb-20-11  Brandon plays: I saw the first 3-4 moves for white. Beyond that I did not see this out to completion.
Feb-20-11  morfishine: <AylerKupp> & <Once> I can't help but add my 2 cents here on Sushi. Having lived in Japan for 39 months I can tell you the "conveyor" system sushi restaurant is very popular there too. Stateside, one must try a variety of places to find the best quality and price, I guess like anything. And there is a big difference in quality. In Orlando Florida, we go to only 3 or 4 places and there's over 100 to choose from.
Feb-20-11  stst: Not at all insane, the moves are quite logical and forcing.

Since 30. BxP+ is by brute force, there should be a better way.

30. Rc8 is the logical choice to attempt to win the exchange, and since QxR would be too heavy a loss to Black, 30... QxB is again logical and forced. Then White, in order to maintain enough pressure, cannot exchange Q, hence 31. BxP+ RxB.

Now is the critical digression, 32. Qg8 + looks forceful, but the Black King got an escape square h6, then the White Q at g8 would either be forced to exchange (which White doesn't want,) or trapped, or needs more moves to get out to be useful in the attack. Hence 32. Rg8+ instead, and after 32...Kh6, 33. QxR.. White got an easy game, and the rest follows naturally.

The apparent look of complicated sequences after 30.Rc8 might award this game about 3-4 stars, but is not at all insane!

Feb-20-11  TheBish: P Cramling vs E Tsuboi, 1992

White to play (30.?) "Insane"

It took me awhile to see the winning idea, then a little longer to work through to a winning endgame.

30. Rc8! Qxd7 31. Bxf6+!

This is the key move that makes this line work.

31...Rxf6 32. Rg8+ Kh6 33. Qxf6 Bc5+ 34. Kf1 (Kh1) Qxd5

(White wins brilliantly after 34...Be7 35. Rxg6+! hxg6 36. Qh8+ Kg5 37. h4+ Kf4 38. Qe5#.)

35. Qh4+ Qh5 36. Qxh5+! Kxh5

(White wins back the piece, thanks to 36...gxh5?? 37. Re6#.)

37. Re5+ Kh4

(Or 37...Kh6 38. g4! (threatening 39. Rh5+ gxh5 40. g5#) Be7 39. f4 and mate can't be stopped. In this line, Black last longer with 38...Rg7 39. g5+ Kh5 40. Rxg7, but that's hopeless too.)

38. Rxc5 Nb3 39. Rd5 and White should have no trouble winning the endgame. Black will be forced to trade his rook to stop a mating attack, and Black's weak king position will make the win easy.

Feb-20-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <<Sneaky>: This is astoundingly deep even though the variations are mostly forced. I wonder, do computers have trouble solving this or do they get it very quickly?>

<johnlspouge> is right, this puzzles causes the engines to calculate for an “eternity". I’m running a “tournament” using the Sunday puzzles to find out how quickly various engines can find the winning move in Infinite Analysis mode since I think that this may be a better way to assess various engines’ relative performance in analysis rather than look at ratings or rankings based on engine tournaments at finite time controls. And I consider not only how long it takes the engines to find out the winning move, but to determine that the move indeed represents a winning advantage, with I define as an eval greater than [2.00] (Arena GUI’s threshold is [1.50]).

I’ve only run 6 puzzles prior to this one and most engines can find the winning move and determine that the player has a winning advantage in about 10–15 plies in less than 2 secs. But on this puzzle Rybka 4 didn’t find 30.Rc8 until almost 32 secs at d=7, with an eval of only [+0.73]. After 7.5 mins at d=21 Rybka’s evaluation never reached higher than [+1.19].

Houdini 1.5a wasn’t much better. It found 30.Rc8 at d=12 in less than 1 sec but with an eval of only [+0.48]. After 1.7 mins at d=25 its eval never exceeded [+1.19].

Stockfish 2.0.1 was better but borderline per my winning advantage criteria. It found 30.Rc8 at d=19 with an eval of [+2.02] after 5.5 secs. But at d=20 its eval dropped to [+1.97] and after 16 secs its eval was only [+1.87].

On my computer Toga II 1.4 5c beta found 30.Rc8 at d=13 with an eval of [+0.88] after a little over 3 secs. After 3 mins at d=21 its eval was still only [+1.69] but steadily rising.

Spike 1.4 seemed promising. It found 30.Rc8 at d=11 with an eval of [+1.48] after only 1.2 secs, even faster than Stockfish. But after almost 7 mins at d=27 its eval was only [+1.26] although in between it got as high as [+1.78]

So, yes, a difficult problem for engines.

Feb-20-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: I was in Bath, England, which is sort of south-central, I think. I was able to order prawns at a restaurant. There was a large, very well equipped WWII museum there. Do I have the right city?

Anyway, I was curious as to how you get prawns out of the North Sea. I thought much of the seafood we eat is from warmer climates.

Bill Wyman, ex-Rolling Stones bassist has a fish and chips shop somewhere in England. Is this fish traditionally fried, or can one order it broiled (for health reasons)?

Sushi is addictive. And, there are lots of scam artists out there ready to take advantage of the public's desire for high quality sushi.

Feb-20-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  johnlspouge: < <AylerKupp> wrote: [snip] I’ve only run 6 puzzles prior to this one and most engines can find the winning move and determine that the player has a winning advantage in about 10–15 plies in less than 2 secs. But on this puzzle Rybka 4 didn’t find 30.Rc8 until almost 32 secs at d=7, with an eval of only [+0.73]. After 7.5 mins at d=21 Rybka’s evaluation never reached higher than [+1.19]. >

I have Toga, Stockfish, and Rybka, and (I will say it again, in case you have not read it) my impression is that on puzzles, Toga > Rybka > Stockfish.

Feb-20-11  patzer2: Pia Cramling's 30. Rc8!! prepares a sham sacrifice of the Bishop for a deep pursuit (King Hunt) combination to solve a Sunday puzzle.

Here's a breakout:

<30. Rc8!! Qxd7>

If 30... Rxd7, then 31. Rxd8 Rdxd8! 32. Ra1! Bc5+ 33. Bf2! Rd6 34. Bxc5! Rxe6 35. Bxf8+ Kxf8 36. dxe6 looks sufficient.

<31. Bxf6+! Rxf6 32. Rg8+ Kh6 33. Qxf6> All forced up to this point, and possibly played as an intuitive positional attacking sacrifice.

<31...Bc5+!~> This avoids a forced mate.

If 33... Qf5, then it's mate after 34. Qxf5 gxf5 35. Re6+ Kh5 36. g4+ fxg4 37. fxg4+ Kh4 38. Rh6#.

<34. Kf1!?> This wins, but much stronger is 34. Kh1! which results in an inescapable mating web following 34... Qxd5 35. Qh4+ Qh5 36. Qxh5+ Kxh5 37. Re5+ Kh4 38. g3+ Kh3 39. Re4 Be7 40. Rg7 Bd8 41. Rxa7 .

<34... Qxd5> Maximizes resistance and avoids the quick mate 34... Qf5 35. Qxf5 gxf5 36. Re6+ Kh5 37. g4+ fxg4 38. fxg4+ Kh4 39. Rh6#.

<35. Qh4+ Qh5 36. Qxh5+ Kxh5>

Not 36... gxh5?? 37. Re6#.

<37. Re5+ Kh6?!> This makes it easy.

Putting up more resistance is 37... Kh4 38. Rxc5 Nb3 39. Rd5 Rc7 40. Re8 Rc4 41. Ree5! when White will win slowly and with difficulty, and will wish she had played 34. Kh1! instead of 34. Kf1!? earlier.

<38. Rxc5> This is the obvious "winning" move, but much stronger is 38. g4! Rg7 39. g5+ Kh5 40. Rxg7 h6 41. Rxc5 .

<38... Nc4> This allows White the clever winning move that will force immediate resignation.

Putting up more resistance is 38... Nb3, but White is still winning after 39. Rd5 when play might continue Rg7 40. Ra8 Rc7 41. Rxa6 .

<39. g4!> 1-0 This forces immediate resignation.

Black surrenders as he must give up ridiculous amounts of material to avoid the threatened 40. Rh5+! gxh5 41. g5#. For example if 40...Rg7, then simply 41. g5+ Kh5 42. Rxg7 picks off a whole rook for an easy win.

Feb-21-11  newzild: <HeHateMe>

I'm a New Zealander, and we do fish 'n' chips in the English fashion. I'm sorry to tell you that traditionally, it's deep-fried.

It's a bit like McDonald's. Eating it seems like a good idea at the time, but you're guaranteed to feel like McCrap afterwards.

Feb-21-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: deep batter fish, huh? cheaper to make, but not so healthy. I always have fish broiled.

I would think island nations like England and NZ would have such an abundance of fish, that you could have it broiled, and cut down on the cholesteral.

Feb-21-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  Tabanus: <patzer2: If 30... Rxd7, then 31. Rxd8 Rdxd8! 32. Ra1! Bc5+ 33. Bf2! Rd6 34. Bxc5! Rxe6 35. Bxf8+ Kxf8 36. dxe6 looks sufficient.>

If 32...g5, e. g. 33.Rxa5* Rfe8 34.Qg4 h5! 35.Qd4! (35.Qxh5 Rh8 36.Qg4 Rxh4 =) 35...gxh4 36.Ra1


click for larger view

White should probably win in the long run (Rybka: +0.60)

*Or better 33.Bf2 Rfe8 34.Qh3 Bb4 35.Qf5 Re5 36.Qb1 Bd2 37.d6 Bc3 38.Qc2 b4 39.Rd1 Nc4 40.Bd4


click for larger view

and Rybka says +1.11

Feb-21-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  al wazir: Why all this talk about sushi? Tsuboi is Brazilian.
Feb-21-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <<johnlspouge> I have Toga, Stockfish, and Rybka, and (I will say it again, in case you have not read it) my impression is that on puzzles, Toga > Rybka > Stockfish.>

Yes, I know of your predilection for Toga. And you may be right. Who knows? There may be even better engines out there for solving puzzles. I don’t know of any systematic study of engines’ performance on puzzles, so I decided to try and find out. And I didn’t know of any objective way to rank them other than speed in finding the winning move AND determining that the move is, indeed, winning. So that’s what I’m trying to do. My biggest problem so far is that the engines are too good and they find the winning move too quickly! A difference between finding the winning move in 0.2 secs vs. 0.4 secs just doesn’t seem to have much practical significance, so I’ll have to figure out a way to present meaningful results (provided there are any) in a reasonable way.

BTW, what version of Toga are you running? I’m running Toga II 1.4 Beta 5c which seems to be the latest and stable, and I’m not sure that earlier versions support multiple cores. Interestingly the Toga site says that they consider Toga II 1.3.1 the strongest Toga to date and refer to the CCRL site. But the latest CCRL site posting (Feb-02-11) ranks all the various Toga II 1.4 versions ahead of the Toga II 1.3.1 versions.

Feb-21-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <<al wazir:> Why all this talk about sushi? Tsuboi is Brazilian.>

You’re right, the discussion (if any) should be about feijoada. In case anybody is interested (and I can’t imagine why anybody would be), see my discussions with <Waitaka> on my forum.

Feb-22-11  newzild: <HeHateMe> We do have lots of good fish in NZ, but my understanding is that the British don't. Most New Zealanders are descended from British, so a lot of our traditional recipes are British. You don't have to eat deep-fried battered fish, though. The only places that cook fish like that are traditional fish 'n' chip shops. You can also get sushi, sashimi, grilled and pan-fried fish in restaurants.
Feb-25-11  TheFocus: Re: Sushi

Here in Hawaii, we have the equivalent of the Soup Nazi, although he is a sushi chef. He has been written up in several articles.

On the door are the words: TRUST ME.

You sit down at the bar and he brings you whatever he wants you to have. You must eat it correctly or else he will kick you out.

You are not allowed to ask questions either. Well,maybe one or two, if you don't annoy him. But, once you annoy him, out you go.

Feb-25-11
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: We had a sushi restaurant in court not too long ago. About a year ago, in the New York area, a man who apparently was in poor health was eating at a Long Island Sushi place. The Sushi chef was out in the open, chopping stuff, moving things around, preparing the food. At one point he chopped something with a tail, and the tail popped up and out, towards this guy's table.

As the tail landed near this guy, he keeled over, had a heart attack and was pronounced dead at the scene (sorry for being a Friday night downer). Anyway, the guy's family sued the sushi restaurant, claiming that the actions of the chef, the shock of seeing this flying object, induced the fatal heart attack. Only in the good 'ol USA, where everyone needs a law degree to protect themselves from frivolous law suits.

The court found the restaurant not liable. I hope the sushi chef is still chopping away.

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