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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Feb-07-12
 | | doubledrooks: 15. Nb6+ Nxb6 16. Bf5+ with a discovered attack on the Black queen wins material for White. |
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Feb-07-12
 | | Dionysius1: It's not so much the material advantage, as the mating net starting with Qb4, after the exchange on b6 and the winning of the Q for rook and minor piece. |
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| Feb-07-12 | | newton296: I saw 15.Nb6+ and then 16.Bf5+ almost right away ... but I spent a lot of time looking for something better. (I guess just because its a Tuesday, there is no guarantee of a Queen-sack, followed by a mate.) |
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Feb-07-12
 | | Penguincw: Darn! I'm still mixing up the order. :-\ |
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| Feb-07-12 | | brianhughes: <Patriot ... 15.Nb6+ Nxb6 16.Bf5+ e6 17.Rxd5 Nxd5 18.Bxg4 wins queen for rook.> Actually, 18. Bxe6+ wins the queen for only a minor piece following 18. ... Rd7 19. Bxg4 as white will be able to win the exchange of the pinned Rook on d7. If instead of 18 ... Rd7, Black plays 18. ... Kc7, mate follows quickly with 19. Qa5+ b6 20. Bxb6+ Nxb6 21. Qa7# |
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Feb-07-12
 | | agb2002: White has the bishop pair for a bishop and a knight. The black queen looks a bit compromised. This suggests 15.Nb6+ Nxb6 16.Bf5+: A) 16... Kc7 17.Bxb6+ Kxb6 18.Rxd5 cxd5 19.Bxg4 + - [Q vs R]. B) 16... Qxf5 17.Rxf5 + - [Q vs 2N] (17... Nd5 18.Rfxd5 cxd5 19.Qe6+ Kc7 20.Qxg4, etc.) C) 16... Nd7 17.Rxd5 cxd5 18.Bxg4 + - [Q+B vs R+N]. |
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| Feb-07-12 | | Patriot: <brianhughes> After 16...e6, your line works as well. But to prove the point that a "win is a win", take a look at what Houdini says at 20 ply: 1.  (20.79): 3.Rxd5 exf5 4.Bxb6 Kd7 5.Rdxf5 Be7 6.Bxd8 Rxd8 7.Qb4 Bf6 8.Qxg4 Kc7 9.Rxf6 gxf6 10.Rxf6 Rd7 11.Qf5 c5 12.Rf7 Rxf7 13.Qxf7+ Kd8 14.Qxh7 b6 15.h4 c4 16.Qg8+ Ke7 17.Qxc4 Kf6 18.Kf2 Ke7 2. (14.90): 3.Bxe6+ Qxe6 4.Qxe6+ Nd7 5.Qxg4 g5 6.Rf7 d5 7.Bb6 Bd6 8.Bxd8 Rxd8 9.Qxg5 h5 10.Qxh5 Kb8 11.Qg5 Bc7 12.h4 Nc5 13.Qe7 Bb6 14.h5 Ka7 15.Kh2 Rd7 16.Qxd7 Nxd7 17.Rxd7 Be3 18.g4 Bf4+ 3. (9.46): 3.Bxg4 Qc5+ 4.Kh1 Re8 5.Bxe6+ Kc7 6.Rb3 Qe5 7.Bxb6+ Kb8 8.Qxe5 dxe5 9.Bd7 Be7 10.Bxe8 Rxe8 11.Rd7 h6 12.Ba7+ Kxa7 13.Rbxb7+ Ka6 14.Rxe7 Rd8 15.Ra7+ Kb6 16.Rad7 Rf8 17.Kg1 g5 18.Rxe5 Rf4 4. (8.68): 3.Bxb6 Qe5 4.Bxe6+ Kb8 5.Bxg4 Qxe1+ 6.Rxe1 d5 7.Rf7 h6 8.Kh1 Bb4 9.c3 Bd6 10.Re6 Ka8 11.Bxd8 Rxd8 12.Rxg7 Rf8 13.Bf3 Bf4 14.Ree7 Rb8 15.h4 Bd6 16.Rd7 Bf8 17.Rgf7 Houdini likes 17.Rxd5 best but for a different reason than what I calculated. My point was that simplification proved the line is at least winning--not necessarily best. I believe it was Lasker that said something to the effect, "When you see a good move, look for a better one!" This mostly applies to the move in front of you, but is not necessary when looking ahead. If you can prove a line is winning, there's no need to calculate everything to computer precision. |
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| Feb-07-12 | | James D Flynn: I don't see my last post in the list so I assume I failed to submit it: 15.Rf5 Qb8 16.Qa5 e6 17 Nb6+ Nxb6 18.Bxb6 Be7 19.Qa8+ Kd7 20.Qxb7+ Ke8 21.Qxc6+ Rd7 22.Qc8+ Bd8 23.Bb5 Nf6 24.Rxf6 g9xf6(Ke7 holds out longer but Bd4+ and Black's K is chased up the board by the bishops) 25.Qxd7+ Kf8 26.Ke8# |
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| Feb-07-12 | | CHESSTTCAMPS: I don't see anyone claiming to have beaten Crafty EGT using the link provided by <David2009>. I have to concur with David that this is much harder than it looks, as we have found for other POTDs. In my first post, I failed to find the best defense, found by Crafty, that gives black 2 minor pieces + P for a Q and dynamic counter chances with the central pawns if white does not play with a high level of accuracy. |
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| Feb-07-12 | | James D Flynn: I now realize my 15.Rf5 doesn't force the Q to g8 because Black plays Nge5. I now think the game continuation is best. An example of the KISS principal. |
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| Feb-07-12 | | BOSTER: Because the <POTD> position is so beautiful, and you can't get such gift everyday I'd play 15.Bb6 , expecting the reply like Re8 (natural), Qh5 or Nge5. Ths is only one line.
15...Re8 16.Bf5 Qxc4 17.Ra3 e6 18.Ra8+ Nb8 19.Rd4 and white win. |
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| Feb-07-12 | | njchess: 11. ... Qxd4+?? What was Black thinking?! |
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| Feb-07-12 | | King Death: < njchess: 11. ... Qxd4+?? What was Black thinking?!> Black has 67 games in this DB and by my count 21 losses in 25 moves or less. There are probably a whole lot of "what was he thinking?" moments. |
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| Feb-07-12 | | stst: The interesting and "easy" part is the position of the Black Q, which will be lost anyway:
15.Nb6+ NxN
16.Bf5+ e6
17.R(d1)xQ ..
of course, this is one variation, but the other lines will be giving up the Q as well.... |
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Feb-07-12
 | | Gypsy: <Once: There isn't really a word for it ... ... So I am going to suggest a word coined by the late great Alfred Hitchcock. Let's call them macguffins. ..> Well, <macguffin> works just fine. But a hundred years ago or so, they would just say that White has a big lead in development... |
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Feb-07-12
 | | LIFE Master AJ: The game (position) itself was interesting ... and provided a lot of fuel for the analysts. However, Black's opening play was simply terrible ... and 2100 and a 1600? Where are the twits who said that my games (vs. low-rated players) were corrupting the DB? Half of the opponents that I play managed to make a better game than Black did here! <David2009> It took many tries ... I finally beat Crafy without the help of any engines ... I got to a Pawn down ending, but it was easily won, as my King wound up on d6, abd Black's was on b7. |
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| Feb-07-12 | | M.Hassan: "Easy" White to play 15.?
White is up by a Bishop for a pawn.
15.Nb6+ and forking Queen
15..............Nxb6
16.Bf5+ Nd7
17.Rxd5 cxd5
18.Qc3# |
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Feb-07-12
| | LIFE Master AJ: <M.Hassan> Suggest you check out the link provided by <David2009> ... try your line there, and report back. |
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| Feb-08-12 | | King Death: < LIFE Master AJ:...However, Black's opening play was simply terrible ... and 2100 and a 1600? Where are the twits who said that my games (vs. low-rated players) were corrupting the DB? Half of the opponents that I play managed to make a better game than Black did here!> The only reason that this player has most of his 67 games in this DB is that they're from the Gibraltar tournaments so they're automatically uploaded. I agree, his play in the ones I've gone through is terrible. |
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Feb-08-12
| | LIFE Master AJ: <<Feb-08-12 King Death: < LIFE Master AJ:...However, Black's opening play was simply terrible ... and 2100 and a 1600? Where are the twits who said that my games (vs. low-rated players) were corrupting the DB? Half of the opponents that I play managed to make a better game than Black did here!> The only reason that this player has most of his 67 games in this DB is that they're from the Gibraltar tournaments so they're automatically uploaded. I agree, his play in the ones I've gone through is terrible. <<<>>> > >You are correct sir, Black's play here was worse than terrible ... I think that my opponent in A J Goldsby vs V Hodgson, 2006, might be able to offer him odds ... Pawn and move, maybe. |
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Feb-08-12
| | LIFE Master AJ: And I fail to understand how he got as high as 1600, around here, most 1000 players would defeat him. (See S Dahlke vs A J Goldsby, 2010 for an enterprising game ... played at a RAPID time clip ... and my opponent still played many times better than Black did here.) |
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Feb-08-12
| | LIFE Master AJ: And I won't offer any more examples and belabor the matter further ... other than to say I am making a web page out of the game. And MAINLY because I like analysis ... there were far too many people opining what was a good move
and what was a bad move ... some (obviously) did not even bother to use a chess engine ... |
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| Feb-08-12 | | drukenknight: you guys ought to come up with a way to debate w/ people taking turns; e.g. parliamentary procedure. This provides for free expression and fairness to all. I would motion to stop dispatching people to other places, the parliament is here... |
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Feb-09-12
| | LIFE Master AJ: http://www.ajschess.com/lifemastera... Above - is the link for my analysis ... |
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| Feb-16-12 | | CHESSTTCAMPS: I complained multiple times about not being able to win the game's final position against Crafty EGT. After several attempts of "trial and error" (and it was mostly error), I finally came up with a clean winning line that was repeatable, starting from the puzzle position: 14.Nb6+ Nxb6 15.Bxf5 Qxf5 16.Rxf5 Ne7! (toughest) 17.h3?! In my first attempt, I found the sharpest move 17.Qe6! (threatening 18.Bb6 winning immediately), but later went wrong against 17... h5!, black's best defensive try, and went on to lose. <LMAJ's> excellent annotation link (most recent post, above) gives the correct continuation. 17... Nge5 18.Be4 e6 19.Bxe5! (returning material to keep things simple) exf5 20.Bxd6 Bxd6 Position after black's move 20:
click for larger viewWhite reaches a clean ending with the significant material advantage of Q vs K+R. It turns out that black must give up another pawn to avoid complete passivity. 21.Rxd6 Rhe1 22.Re6 Rxe6?
In earlier attempts, Crafty played the more energetic 22...Nf6! 23.Re7! Rxe7 24.Qxe7 Re1+ 25.Kh2 (Kf2? turns out to be a subtle error} Rd7 26.Qe6 f4 27.Qf5 winning a pawn and eventually the game. The engine's evaluations of the two lines must be close. Now both R and N are tied down. 23.Qxe6 g6 24.Qf7 Nf8 25.Kf2 h3 26.Ke3 Kg8 27.a4 Kf8 28.b4 Kg8 29.c4 Kh6 30.c5 Kg8 31.b5 g5 32.b6 Nd7 33.Qxf5 Re8+ 34.Kd4 Kc8 35.a5 (now the threat of a6 is decisive) Re5 36.Qxe5 and the K&P ending is easy. |
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Kibitzing
sac: 15.Nb6+