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Jan Gustafsson vs Vladimir Kramnik
"Hop on the Bus, Gus" (game of the day Jan-18-2013)
Dortmund Sparkassen (2012), Dortmund GER, rd 2, Jul-14
King's Indian Defense: Orthodox Variation. Gligoric-Taimanov System (E92)  ·  0-1



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sac: 18...Rxe3 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 5 OF 5 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jun-01-13  LJLMETAL: That is a good game! Had anyone tried the Mar Del Plata variation to the KID? That is a great variation.
Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: Black has a bishop for a rook.

White threatens 22.Rxa8 and Nc4.

Black can try to combine an attack against the white knight with the threat to promote the a-pawn. This suggests 21... Rxa4 22.Bxa4 Bd4 23.Kf2 Nb4:

A) 24.Rd1 Nc2 (24... a2 25.Rxd4 a1=Q 26.Rxb4 unclear) 25.Rxd4 (25.Rd3 Bxe3+ 26.Rxe3 Nxe3 27.Kxe3 a2 - +) 25... Nxd4 26.Bc4 Bd7 27.a5 Ba4 28.d6 Kf8 and Black seems to win (threatens Bb3).

B) 24.Rc1 Bd7

B.1) 25.Bb5 Bxb5 26.axb5 Nd3+ and 27... Nxc1.

B.2) 25.Bc4 a2 26.Bxa2 Nd3+, etc.

B.3) 25.Rc4 Bxe3+ 26.Kxd3 a2 27.Rc1 a1=Q 28.Rxa1 Nc2 29.Kd2 Nxa1 30.Kc3 Bxa4 31.Kb2 Nb3 32.Bd1 Nc5 - +.

B.4) 25.a5 a2 - +.

C) 24.Bc4 Nc2 wins material.

Jun-01-13  mistreaver: Saturday.Black to play. Very Difficult. 21?
The position is very tricky. I am not sure but i would say that first move has to be 21... Rxa4
I wanted to go for 21... Nc3 but then i realized that 22 Rxa8 leaves too many things hanging. 22 bxa4 Nb4
23 Bc4 a2
24 Bxa2 Nxa2
and black has 2 pieces for a rook, with equal material. I know there is probably something better, but i don't see the idea. Time to check. ------------
Hmmm, i was watching Bd4 ideas but thought black can always defend with Kf2. For computer, the strongest line is same as mine, except: 23 Bc4 should be met by
23... Bd4
24 Kf2 Nc2
and also
23 Rc8 should be met by
24 Nc2 Bb2
25 Nxb4 Bxb1
Jun-01-13  dick50: From the position it is obvious that Black Pawn on a3 is the decider. Pieces which help or prevent it's promotion are only important. So the key move 21...Rxa4 is pretty obvious. The next steps would be to immobilize white knight and clear the way for pawn by moving the Black Knight. So 22... Bd4 and 23...Nb4.

Incidentally it seems White was after black Bishop from move 13. He accomplished this task by 25th move. But by that time Black a pawn had settled the matter.

Premium Chessgames Member
  offramp: Fantastic chess. This could be one of the three longest combinations I've ever seen. Very very hard as a puzzle.
Premium Chessgames Member
  chrisowen: Be radical zone slice free a knight absolve bank.

Beady rook bishopg7 light at sixes and sevens sees almighty your a genial touch in believe it is a barracuda in ray of hope in sad to see you go a4 black why rising to occasion select nab ko in us bade 0l a 21...Rxa4 alma see feed a beauty in fork knight bang to rights again yah good ascent enterprise advantage it now in don't quibble bad ok made affabled aim in eg good game a4 one delight in rich again really a,

key rook knight club a fine maneovre gg in bus tore down light a clean in good bishop a pawna3 will promote am why not ballot free dutiful shine on gauging back to back 21.ra4 Rxa4 own in jab binds ok in 22.bxa4 aim a youth in b4 or guessed d4 both am crickey alleviate ne3 i calm d4 journey do i envision yeah one coned off capital 3e in knight cuffed bold oomph emaciated a jug carafe 13.rc1 a5!

Line in no time like a rook would drain off syphon be lad 23.Kf2 nb4 and top brass a flurry aeon a3 seem in.

Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: The very dangerous pin of white's knight combined with the passed pawn on the a-file,make white's forces busier than a dog chasing TWO squirrels.
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: Could it be that white resigned too soon? I see an ending of Q+4P vs R+B+4P? Isn't that about equal?

That after...28 ♖xd4 a1=♕ 29 ♔xe3.


Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: I wonder if it's best for white to give up the piece with 23...Bc4.

click for larger view

Then after 24...Bxe3+ 25 Kh1 Nb4 26 Ra1 you end up with this messy position, with white taking the passed pawn next move.

click for larger view

Jun-01-13  Illogic: <kevin86> After that, Qg1+ and black will get to munch some pawns.
Jun-01-13  Coigach: Strange puzzle.

21...Rxa4 seems obvious, forcing Then it appears either ...Bd4 or ...Nb4 will win for B on move 22.

22...Nb4 23.Bc4 Bd4 and the White Knight is lost (24.Kf2 Nc2). Black will then have two Bishops for a Rook, with the advanced a-pawn soon likely to cost White more. I can't see how this is any weaker than 22...Bd4 which Kramnik played.

What a wonderful game, though.

Jun-01-13  Patriot: Does black have a lot of choices here? Currently white is up the exchange and threatens 22.Rxa8. 21...Rxa4 looks pretty much forced:

21...Rxa4 22.bxa4 Nc3

23.Kf2 Bd4 24.Bc4 a2 25.Ra1 Nd1+ 26.Rxd1 a1=Q 27.Rxa1 Bxa1 - It seems white may have a slight advantage here.

Black just doesn't seem to have a choice on the first move. The rest doesn't seem to matter much.

Jun-01-13  vajeer: <Jimfromprovidence:> I was thinking about the same idea, but then black can play 25...Nc3 allowing him to support the pawn with Bc5.
Jun-01-13  James D Flynn: I was not satisfied that I had a clear win so I did not post before seeng the game.However, in my analysis I exoected the clearly 24.Bc4 superior instead of 24.Rc1 so I may as well post as far as I got. \Black is down the exchange but has a dangerous passed pawn on a3. His immediate problem is the R on a4 threatens to take his R on a8 and if that R simply moves to b8 22.Rxa3 loses the precious pawn. If instead 21…..Ra6 22.Bxa6 loses a second exchange in addition to the a3 pawn; consequently 21…..Rxa4 appears forced. 21……..Rxa4 22.bxa4 Bd4 23.Kf2 Nb4(now the a pawn can advance supported by the B and N) 24.Rd1(to force the B off the long diagonal and support the advance of his own passed d pawn) Nc2 25.Rxd4 Nxd4 26.Bc4 Bd7(not Bf5 30.Ba2 preventing Bb1 supporting he pawn) 27.a5(united passed pawns on the Q-side cannot be allowed) Ba4(now the threat is Bb3) 27.d6(threat d7 in reply to Bb3) Kf8 28.Nd5(renewing the d7 threat) Ke8
Jun-01-13  James D Flynn: Jimfromprovidence your idea of Bc4 immediately after Bd4 did not occur to me but after 24....Bxe3+ 25.Kh1 Nc1 instead of your Nb4 looks much better: it appears White must lose the exchange at least and more likely a 2nd piece because Black can move his K to stop the d pawn and play Bf5 followed by Bb1 to support the advance of the a pawn.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: <vajeer> <James D Flynn> I think that you have to play 24... Nb4, below, after 23 Bc4 Bxe3+ 24 Kh1. (Sorry about the earlier errors in my line).

click for larger view

The point is black has to be able to play 25...Nc2, below if white follows with 25 Re1.

click for larger view

Otherwise black has to move the dark-squared bishop and white will follow with Re8+, winning the bishop on c8. His bishop on c4 prevents promotion after ...a2.

Jun-01-13  Dr. J: <jim et al>:

23 Bc4 Bxe3+ 24 Kh1 Nb4 25 Ra1 Nc2 26 Ra2 Bf5. Now 27 Bb3 loses to 27...Nd4 28 Rxa3 Bc1, so best is is 28 d6 (threatening d7) giving his Bishop more room, but Black wins by 28...Kf8 29 Bb3 Nd4 30 Bd5 Bc1 31 Bxb7 Bb2, an any counter-threats are too slow.

Not done with a computer, so please check this.

Jun-01-13  whiteshark: Gusti's school of hard knocks.
Jun-01-13  Abdel Irada: <kevin86: Could it be that white resigned too soon? I see an ending of Q+4P vs R+B+4P? Isn't that about equal?

That after...28 xd4 a1= 29 xe3.


That might be considered statically or theoretically equal, but in practice, in this position, it is far otherwise.

Black's queen can pick off white pawns at will, but White must be cautious in reciprocating for fear of forks (which can be hard to avoid with an exposed king), and Black will wear down his defenses over time.

Jun-02-13  vajeer: <Dr. J:> In your line how would you answer 27. g4

<Jimfromprovidence:> I was too consumed by Ra1 and overlooked Re1 earlier. I think in your line white's best continuation would be 26. Rd1 threatening advance of his own passed pawn. ( If 26. Re2 then 26...Bf5 27. g4 a2 28. Bxa2 Bd3 looks good for black)

In 24...Nc1 line suggested by <James D Flynn:> play may continue as 25. Re1 a2 26. Bxa2 Nxa2 27. Rxe3 Kf8.

It's not very obvious whether Nb4 or Nc1 is better for black. Would be interesting to see what computers have to say.

Jun-02-13  Dr. J: <me: 23 Bc4 Bxe3+ 24 Kh1 Nb4 25 Ra1 Nc2 26 Ra2 Bf5.>

<vajeer: <Dr. J:> In your line how would you answer 27. g4?>

By losing. Your suggestion is surprisingly effective, and may refute the whole conception. So I took another look and got the weird idea of NOT playing 23...Bxe3+, and instead trying 23...Nb4. So I set up Crafty EGT here: and played 23 Bc4, and wonder of wonders, Crafty indeed played 23...Nb4, and I could find no way to save White. [Time to find 23...Nb4: me: ~1 hr.; Crafty: 4 sec.]

Premium Chessgames Member
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <FSR....Half of Black's moves look like they were played by a madman.>

Nothing special here--just the usual tactics which every KID player must resort to in order to stay on the board a great deal of the time. Even Kramnik, that most devoted slayer of King's Indian devotees, knew the score! (laughs)

Aug-21-17  cormier: <13...a5 The idea of ​​this move, as I understand it, is to ... force the exchange of queens. After all, the only real idea behind whites, in my opinion, here is the withdrawal of the queen to b3, then the black pawn, moving from a5 to a4, and asking him to decide. <Back the strongest figure of white will not go, so only the exchange with the win of the pawn d5 ... <[Earlier Gustafsson was playing against 13 ... Nc6 (Gustafsson, J (2647) - Maze, S (2559) / Aix-les-Bains 2011).] <["Weak-power" 13 ... a6 led the blacks in the Handke, F (2413) - Atalik, S (2575) / Cappelle la Grande 2000 series to the big problems: 14.Qb3 dxe4? 15.fxe4 Rf8 16.Rxf7! Rxf7 17.Rf1 Bf6 18.e5! Kg7 And now after 19.exf6 + Rxf6 (At 19 ... Kf8 you can even "firnut" by 20.Qxf7 + Kxf7 21.Bc4 + Kf8 22.Bh6 + Ke8 23.f7 + etc.) 20.Qc3 !! Black with a calm heart could surrender. However, the Whites were not only forgiven, but even lost ...]>>>>
Aug-22-17  cormier:

click for larger view

Analysis by Houdini 4

14.b3 Na6 15.Kh1 Qe7 16.Qd2 Qb4 17.Qd3 dxe4 18.fxe4 Rd8 19.Rcd1 Nc5 20.Qc2 Ne6 21.Nb5 Bd7 22.a3 Qe7 23.Bb6 Rdc8 24.Qd2 Be8 25.Nd6 Rc3 26.Bc4 a4 27.Bxe6 fxe6 28.Bd4 = (0.19) Depth: 29

<14.b3> Na6
= (0.11 --) Depth: 30

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