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Later Kibitzing> |
Feb-01-13
 | | al wazir: <rilkefan>: SON OF A GUN!!! You were right! There really is a Mozart canon entitled "Leck mich in Arsch," KV 231. I'll never doubt your word again. |
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| Feb-01-13 | | Shams: <One's education never stops, as Sherlock Holmes was wont to say.> Henry Adams too. |
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Feb-01-13
 | | HeMateMe: You, sir, are but one more item on my Dollar Menu! |
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| Feb-01-13 | | Abdel Irada: <HeMateMe: You, sir, are but one more item on my Dollar Menu!> Prices being what they are, that *might* buy you a doughnut. |
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| Feb-01-13 | | cocker: Not much discussion of the position today! White could have won more quickly with 20 Qd3, threatening mate on h7. |
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| Feb-01-13 | | patzer2: For today's Friday solution 15. Ndxe6!!, White's demolition sham sacrifice gives him two pawns for the Knight and a decisive attack (i.e. King pursuit) after 15...fxe6 16. Nxe6 Qd6 17. Rhe1!  .Black's decisive blunder appears to be 14...N7b6?? One alternative is 14...Nc5 when 15. Rhe1 Nxd3 16. Qxd3 Qa5  leaves Black, though at a clear disadvantage, still in the game. An earlier improvement might be 7...Qc7 as in I Hausner vs Hracek, 2006, which the Opening Explorer indicates has favored Black in practice (i.e. 12 wins for Black, one win for White and 8 draws in the OE database). |
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| Feb-01-13 | | morfishine: Black's position looks like he tried to save time by postponing castling; Exciting when it works, disastrous when it backfires The Knight-sac on e6 is begging to be looked at, so I'll run through that first. (1) <15.Nfxe6 fxe6 16.Nxe6> Tempo attack on the Black Queen; A side-threat is if Black's DSB moves, then Nxg7+; <16...Qd7> Planning Qa4; 16...Qd6 is possible (1a will look at this continuation); <17.Bxb6> Clears the e-file <17...Nxb6> Not forced, but probably best since this protects the Black Queen <18.Qf2> Attacks the Knight with the dual threat 19.Bg6+ winning the Black Queen or 19.Rhe1 <18...Rc6> Defends the Knight plus threatens Rxe6 <19.Bf5 Rd6 20.Rxd6 Qxd6 21.Re1 Kf7 22.Ng5+ Kf6 23.Re6+ Qxe6 24.Bxe6 Kxg5 25.Qxb6> This looks winning for White:
click for larger viewBTW: Here's another famous game with Knight sacs on e6 with both White Knights also starting from d4 & f4: Pillsbury vs Lasker, 1896 (1a) <16...Qd6> Shores up b6; <17.Bxb6 Qxb6 18.Rde1 Nc3+ 19.Ka1 Qa5> Black's primary threat against a2 <20.Nc5+ Be7 21.Bg6+ hxg6 22.Qd7+ Kf8 23.Qxe7+ Kg8 24.Qe6+ Kh7 25.Nxb7>
click for larger view
Threatens the Black Queen plus 26.Qh3+ Kg8 27.Qxc8+
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PM: I was on the right track, but in both continuations, felt 17.Bxb6 clearing the e-file was best, when Rhe1 was better; plus at the end of #2, Black has 26...Qh5, but in that case, White can finally play bxc3 after the exchange of Queens winning a piece |
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| Feb-01-13 | | newzild: If White don't play 15. Ndxe6, then he aint a chess player. |
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| Feb-01-13 | | morfishine: <rilkefan> Yes, IMO, There's Mozart, then there's Vivaldi, then there's all the rest...no offense of course, thats just me... |
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Feb-01-13
 | | Oxspawn: Friday is well outside my comfort zone so I will play it as I would play it over the board, in a non-judgmental fashion – without knowing it is ‘difficult’ (chess is always difficult). In my game, which probably differs quite a bit from yours, White’s moves are somewhat optimistic and black’s moves are very much so (from the point of view of white).White’s moves are sub-optimal; black’s are frankly poor. This is to be expected from a poor player (not you Yanovsky; my Vlad is never going to impale anyone on an awkward fork). Unexpected moves, especially unexpectedly ‘good’ moves, are not to be expected, and will therefore simply be ignored on medical grounds. 15. N(d4)xe6 gxe
16. Nxe6 Qd2
17. Nxf8 Rxf8
18. Bxb6 Nxb6
19. R(h)e1+ and that’s it, he says optimistically |
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Feb-01-13
| | Oxspawn: Well, the first two moves is not bad for Friday. The actual game seemed a bit cruel, shooting bits off black who ran about the board like a headless chicken and ended up kebabbed and kippered. |
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Feb-01-13
| | Oxspawn: Not a nice combination. |
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| Feb-01-13 | | Abdel Irada: <Oxspawn>: Don't knock kippered kebabs. If you were hungry enough, I imagine you'd find them palatable. |
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| Feb-01-13 | | Patriot: Material is even. Black's king is still in the center so 15.Nxe6 makes some sense. 15...fxe6
Here I thought it could make more sense to capture with the d-knight (15.Ndxe6) since 16.Bxb6 is possible but I'm not sure what that does. 16.Nxe6 hitting the queen and threatening 17.Rhe1. Perhaps 16.Bxb6 did make sense to clear the e-file so that either 16...Qxb6 or 16...Nxb6 could be met with 17.Nxe6. I'm sure there are quite a few variations which I don't have time to calculate this morning. |
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Feb-01-13
| | beenthere240: Start the puzzle after 16... Qd6 and it's a lot harder since the key is a quiet move. |
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Feb-01-13
 | | chrisowen: Looks like nincompoop engaged better the knightb6 a loon i bate again dutifuls crumble the carpet in dilemma read knight a first 15.ndxe6 fxe6 16.Nxe6 open all sort of avenue in give the finger to do the math aim I damage 16...qd6 ever alert rook comes across to pin queen if a he elect recapture knightblack is a dead duck i hearing 17.rhe1 things get trickly it now in head quarter do it is milking f7 looks hazardous again as white will bottle him in g8 after ng5+ cained aint worth a nxe3 or even c3+ hoop dream can in effect write black off instead he chooses a minding 17...Kf7 18.ng5+ now ledge all whites piece in coming good game a foot find knight out just the felony ticket a castigates 19.bf5 first look heading off rook changing whilst infer d2 has right to freedom in d2 ray it is lake in c4 lackey together on i black eyes e3 the door in sat i light mission to have ar good 20.Qd4 instave off would 20.Qd3 prove adequate? |
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Feb-01-13
| | chrisowen: Am more just f5 angle g5 threaten win of queen in e6 the temptation church of reason in, winding up ply at o 21.be6+ forced queen take in
slide away desert mass in e6 22.Nxe6 Nxd1 23.Rxd1 dangle us ace success pinch punch e6 it double in as tender mighty tight in d and e colom alive in absolve it her d4 in yeah a versatile 19.bf5 nc4 go building some gain knight phat in common key to believe ride again gone for castle knight and queen over-whelming king and loose queen sidehook in
difficult you reign down one for b6 i noodle a find in e6. |
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| Feb-01-13 | | Marmot PFL: 15 Nxe6 fe6 16 Nxe6 Q moves 17 Re1 I would play without too much analysis with 2 pawns for the piece and black's king very exposed. As black in such positions if I had not castled I would at least have played Be7 (probably on move 11) and been ready to castle. |
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| Feb-01-13 | | kevin86: The knight sac leads to a prolonged king hunt...mate in nineteen! lol |
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| Feb-01-13 | | mistreaver: White to play. Friday. Difficult. 15.?
I am in a hurry, and unforunately i don't have time for serious analysis.
Therefore i would go for "looks good on first sight" type of move:
15 Ndxe6 fxe6 (declining the sacrifice leaves black in bad position)
16 Nfxe6 Qd7
17 Bxb6 Nxb6
18 Rhe1 and i think white is better.
Unforunatelly i have to check it now and leave this superficial analysis hanging.
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Ok, i think i got the main idea, but its implementation was of course not very precise, i will check on Fritz when i find time. |
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| Feb-01-13 | | fokers13: Got it. |
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Feb-01-13
 | | agb2002: The material is identical.
Black looks almost ready to launch an attack based on Nc4, Qa5, Nc3+, etc. In the appropriate order. The black king is still in the center. This suggests 15.Ndxe6 to open lines: A) 15... fxe6 16.Nxe6
A.1) 16... Qd6 17.Rhe1 (threatening Bc5)
A.1.a) 17... Nc4 18.Bxc4 Rxc4 19.Bc5 Rxc5 20.Nxc5+ and 21.Nxb7 + -. A.1.b) 17... Nxe3 18.Qxe3 Nd5 (18... Be7 19.Bb5+ + -) 19.Nc7+ followed by 20.Nxd5 looks very bad for Black. A.1.c) 17... Kf7 18.Ng5+ Kg8 (18... Kf6 19.Ne4+; 18... Ke8 19.Bxb6+) 19.Bf5 Re8 20.Bc5 looks winning for White. A.2) 16... Qd7 17.Rhe1 is similar to A.1.
A.3) 16... Qe7 17.Bxb6 Nxb6 18.Rhe1 is rather ugly for Black. A.4) 16... Qf6 17.Bg5
A.4.a) 17... Qf7 18.Rhe1 Be7 19.Bxe7 Nxe7 20.Bb5+ axb5 21.Qd8+ Rxd8 22.Rxd8#. A.4.b) 17... Qxe6 18.Rhe1 and white has the queen and two pawns for a rook and two knights but the attack still looks winning. A.5) 16... Nc4 17.Bxc4 Nc3+ (17... Rxc4 18.Nxd8) 18.bxc3 Qxd2 19.Rxd2 Rxc4 20.Nxf8 Rxf8 21.Re1 with many threats (Bc5+, Rd8+ and Rd7+, etc.). B) 15... Qd6 16.Rhe1 seems to transpose to previous lines. C) 15... Nc4 16.Bxc4 Nc3+ 17.bxc3 Qxd2 18.Rxd2 Rxc4 19.Rd8+ Ke7 20.Rxf8 Rxf8 21.Nxf8 Kxf8 22.cxb4 + - [N+P]. |
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| Feb-01-13 | | M.Hassan: "Difficult"
White to play 15.?
Equal materials.
I saw no sacrifice rightaway but so called "normal moves" 15.Rhe1 Nxe3
16.Qxe3 Bc5
17.Nfxe6 fxe6
18.Qxe6+ Kf8
19.Bc4 Qf6
20.Qxf6 gxf6
So far, no advantage for White
21.Ne6+ Kf7
22.Nxc5+ Nxc4
23.Rd7+ Kg6
24.Nxb7
Game can drag on much longer. White is 2 pawns ahead now.
Time to check
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Game line is entirely different line |
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| Feb-01-13 | | jheiner: None of this was decisive, but the line I looked at was: 15.Nfxe6 dxe6 16.Nxe6
and there are a lot of choices for the Q. if 16...Qd5 as in the game, I liked 17.Bc4 pressuring f8. (if 17...Qxe6 18.Re1)
although 18.Re1 is coming regardless. |
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| Feb-02-13 | | mistreaver: It is interesting that my line given above works only because black played Qd7 and has to recapture on b6 with knight and then after Rhe1 Kf7 Qf4+ Kg8 Bh7+ he loses his queen.
But after the text move Qd6 Bxb6 is actually a blunder because after Qxb6 black even stands a little better as there is no queen- rook oposition on open file. Therefore half a point for today. |
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Kibitzing
sac: 15.Ndxe6