< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Jan-14-13|| ||Marmot PFL: White is probably winning in either case. He has the bishop pair and wins either f5 or d6.|
|Jan-14-13|| ||ajile: What's wrong with the simple 18..b6.
If Black is going to grab a pawn with 13..Qxb2 why not keep being greedy?
|Jan-14-13|| ||keypusher: <ajile: What's wrong with the simple 18..b6.>|
|Jan-14-13|| ||Marmot PFL: Looked at the position a bit more...If 21...Rxb8 22 Bb3 Rb2 23 Bf4 Rxg2 24 Bxf5 Nc7 I think white, being Carlsen, would win in the long run, but I agree with you that it was a better chance for black.|
|Jan-14-13|| ||Fanques Fair: Letīs see : 21...Rxb8, 22 - Bd3, Rb2, 23- Bxf5 , Nb8 ( ...,Rxb2 seems bad after 24-Bf4, Be5, 25-Bxe5, dxe5, 26-d6 and wins) White has an extra pawn and bishop pair, but at least Blackīs rook and bishop are active. If now 24- Bd8 , with the idea of attacking both the Knight on b8 and the d6 pawn with Bc7, Black may try ..., Rd2+ , 25- Kc1, Rxg2, 26- Bc7, Na6 , 27- Bxd6, Bb2+, 28- Kd1, Bxa3, 29- Be5, Nb4 , 30- d6, Nc6, 31- d7 , Bb4 ! and Black is still holding ...|
|Jan-14-13|| ||Cemoblanca: White had a very strong move in his pocket: Ba5! The Black N is (still) defending an important square (a4) & without his N Black will be sooner or later lost & the White King can penetrate into the Black's camp. Well, this is "only" a threat, because White must not capture immediately, for example: 33...Bd8 34.Ba5! Kf6 35.Bc2 Bc7 36.Bc3!+ Kg6 37.g4! hxg4 38.hxg4 & the Black King must step back to defend the f7 pawn: 38...Kh7 39.Bxf5+ Kg8 & 38...f6 is not much better: 39.Bxf5+ Kf7 40.g5! Bd5 41.Be6+! Kg6 42.gxf6 Bxf6 43.Ba5! (here it is again) 43...Bd8 44.f5+, etc. White is a pawn up & has a very comfortable game in addition.|
|Jan-14-13|| ||tamar: After 21...Rxb8 Magnus also had the pleasant option of limiting Black's play with quiet play. |
22 Kc2 Be5 23 Bc1 stops all of Black's activity, and still leaves him with an offside knight.
|Jan-14-13|| ||keypusher: <tamar: After 21...Rxb8 Magnus also had the pleasant option of limiting Black's play with quiet play.|
22 Kc2 Be5 23 Bc1 stops all of Black's activity, and still leaves him with an offside knight.>
I would expect 22.Kc2 Rb2+, when I thought 23.Kxc3 Rxe2 didn't look that good for white. But maybe 23.Kd3 is better, e.g. 23....Be5 24.Bc1?
|Jan-14-13|| ||Fanques Fair: tamar, ok, but Black also has the option to invade with his rook anyway > 21-..., Rxb8 22- Kc2 , Rb2+ , 23- Kxc3 , Rxe2, 24- Bf4, Ra2 ! , and , although really Blackīs knight is out of play, he still breathes : 26- Kb3 , Rxg2, 27 - Bxd6 , Rf2, 28- Bf8 , Rxf3 + , 29- Kb2, h5 , of course White still has a great advantage, but itīs possible for Black to put up more resistance .|
|Jan-14-13|| ||DeepTrouble: <A little bit premature to resign here, or? >|
It's dead lost, because white invades on the Q-side and there's nothing black can do to prevent it. And Wely was low on time and he knew that against an endgame player like Magnus, it would be a waste of time to continue.
For a more detailed analysis, check out this video by Chessexplained:
|Jan-14-13|| ||tamar: <keypusher> <Fanques Fair> It's just lost. Black is just forcing White into crushing moves 21...Rxb8 22 Kc2 Rb2+ 23 Kxc3 Rxe2 24 Bf4|
The pawn on d6 is gone, and by extension the knight on a6 would then have no moves, and be subject to loss.
|Jan-14-13|| ||Ulhumbrus: 9..Qb6 obstructs the b6 pawn. 11 Nh4 threatens to gain the two bishops and shatter Black's king side by Nxf5. 11...Ne4 avoids this only temporarily and Black has to return the pawn which he wins on b2. This suggests, instead of 11..Ne4, 11...Bg4 and on 12 f3 Bd7. |
After 22...Nd7 Carlsen refrains from the capture Bxf5 for ten moves in succession and when the black king finally defends the f5 pawn, 33 h3 threatening g4 induces resignation.
|Jan-14-13|| ||DeepTrouble: Fanques Fair:
< 21-..., Rxb8 22- Kc2 , Rb2+ , 23- Kxc3 , Rxe2, 24- Bf4, Ra2 ! ... 25- Kb3 , Rxg2, 26 - Bxd6 >
First of all, 22. ... Rb2+ is a mistake (because after Rxe2, white puts his rook on b1 a few moves later, invades black's position and eats up his pawns), and makes it even easier for white to win.
And 26. Re1 is even stronger than 26. Bxd6, because white grabs the important open e-file with his rook, and then attacks on the Q- and K-side via e7. The position is dead lost for black, because the trapped knight is eventually lost.
|Jan-14-13|| ||Cemoblanca: Recap by Magnus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqBm...|
|Jan-14-13|| ||Cemoblanca: ...& Loek: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNhh...|
P.S. 0:18 ;)
|Jan-14-13|| ||keypusher: <tamar> <deep trouble>|
Thanks, it seems I did not evaluate the position correctly after 23.Kxc3 Rxe2 24.Bf4!
|Jan-15-13|| ||ajile: <keypusher: <ajile: What's wrong with the simple 18..b6.>
Good call, didn't see that move.
|Jan-15-13|| ||kingscrusher: I have video annotated this game here:
|Jan-17-13|| ||BUNA: It's a strange decision by van Wely to employ this very old setup against the Averbakh varation without showing any new idea. Shereshevsky had devoted half a chapter to it in his "Engame strategy", noting whites advantage in the endgame. In the early eighties Leonid Yurtaev a couple of times sacrificed his bishop on d5 in order to alter the assessment of the variation.
G Zaitshik vs Yurtaev, 1984
That was way too easy for Carlsen.
|Jan-21-13|| ||jovack: I love how magnus always puts his opponents behind very subtly. The position appears playable sometimes but at top tier chess it is clearly won.|
|Jan-27-13|| ||voyager39: I think the reason why lower rated local players are invited is that they can learn by fighting against the best and also inspire the youngsters.|
Such premature surrender betrays the very reason for inviting such players.
|Dec-28-13|| ||kontoleon: sorry but a double pawn and a little more active piece is enought to resign?|
|Dec-28-13|| ||thomastonk: <kontoleon: sorry but a double pawn and a little more active piece is enought to resign?> White has much more than that. The threat g4 will win a pawn, or black's knight has to protect f5 (via c8 and e7), but then White can invade on the queen's side. So, the position is lost, but it requires only some "technique". No problem for Carlsen.|
|Jan-22-19|| ||paavoh: <keypusher: <ajile: What's wrong with the simple 18..b6.> 19.Be7, right?> |
van Wely could possibly reject 18.-b6 due to this one move, but how about 18.-b6 19.Be7 Re8 20.Bxd6 Nc6!? Knight cannot be taken due to Rd8 pinning the Bishop.
|Jan-22-19|| ||keypusher: < paavoh: <keypusher: <ajile: What's wrong with the simple 18..b6.> 19.Be7, right?>
van Wely could possibly reject 18.-b6 due to this one move, but how about 18.-b6 19.Be7 Re8 20.Bxd6 Nc6!? Knight cannot be taken due to Rd8 pinning the Bishop>|
Looks like you're absolutely right. Instead of Be7 immediately, White should play 19.Rb3 attacking the bishop and getting to the third rank with tempo. Then after the bishop moves 20.Be7 really does win a pawn.
Another strong alternative after 18....b6 is simply 19.Bd3 (SF10).
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