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Magnus Carlsen vs Vladimir Kramnik
World Championship Candidates (2013), London ENG, rd 2, Mar-16
English Opening: Symmetrical. Anti-Benoni Variation Spielmann Defense (A33)  ·  1/2-1/2

ANALYSIS [x]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 9 OF 9 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Mar-16-13  Karposian: Criticizing Kramnik for drawing with Black against Carlsen...beyond words
Mar-16-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  harrylime: <Karposian: Criticizing Kramnik for drawing with Black against Carlsen...beyond words>

Surely not beyond 'dull' and 'boring' ?

Mar-16-13  Travis Bickle: Kramnik would rather draw then win! Another Leko. LOL

<King Radio: <Travis Bickle> so don't watch. Problem solved.> Hey Big Nose who asked you're opinion? ; P

Mar-16-13  King Radio: <Travis Bickle> I dunno, same person who asked yours? :)
Mar-16-13  mrsaturdaypants: I'm a big Kramnik fan. I like the guy and like his play. But it's true that he draws more than his peers. By the (incomplete but representative) chessgames data, this cycle's champion and candidates listed by percentage of decisive games:

Carlsen 56.8%
Aronian 50.2%
Grischuk 49.6%
Ivanchuck 46.9%
Anand 46.8%
Radjabov 46.7%
Swidler 44.9%
Gelfand 43.2%
Kramnik 41.4%

You're much more likely to see somebody win when Carlsen's playing than when Kramnik is. With that said, it's of course smart to play for a draw with black at this level of competition. Unless your opponent messes up, get your wins with white.

I hope that Aronian or Radjabov gets another win soon, and everyone starts to feel like they have to squeeze out wins to have a chance.

Mar-16-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: 6.Bf4 is quite a rare move, which Kramnik characterized after the game as harmless - but requiring some precise play by Black in order to prove that.

First, 8...dxc4! ("If Black just starts to castle, he can be slightly worse in a typical Queen's Gambit manner") - and now, if White doesn't go for 9.Nxc6, Black would exchange on d4 and saddle White with an isolani under unfavorable circumstances. Then 11...Nd5! to exchange pieces (12.Be5 doesn't work because of 12...f6), followed by 12...Nxf4 (taking twice on c3 after White has castled might allow him unpleasant initiative with Bd6 or Rd6) and 13...Bxc3. This last move minimizes White's chances to get at Blackís c-pawn by closing the c-file and getting rid of the knight. Later, after 18.Rxb7, the final touch is 18...a5 - preparing Kd8-c8 to kick out White's rook (by preventing Ba6), followed by Rb8 to exchange rooks and transition into a dead-drawn bishop endgame.

Mar-17-13  WiseWizard: These guys play so accurate they make drawing against 2800s look easy and the fans take it for granted and ridicule even. The endgame Bd7/Rhb8/a5!/Kc8 plan is the most efficient way of solving black's problems, its a beautiful plan, I enjoy these draws for their concise play, Black just plays the strongest moves to systematically destroy White's center, not one wasted move!
Mar-17-13  fgh: When will the administrators create a 5th posting guideline, banning stupidity?

<Karposian: Criticizing Kramnik for drawing with Black against Carlsen...beyond words>

Agreed. Too many idiots. Not trolls, but idiots.

Mar-17-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: <When will the administrators create a 5th posting guideline, banning stupidity?>

I doubt if this is going to happen Ė just think how enormously it would increase their workload; they'll have to delete about half of what's getting posted on this site.

Mar-17-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <Eyal> Half could well be an underestimate at that, I should think.
Mar-17-13  Travis Bickle: Bobby Fischer a pretty fair chess player I think all you geniuses would agree on said many years ago, "The turning point in my career came with the realization that Black should play to win instead of just steering for equality." Maybe Bobby just had balls and these Kramnik types don't.
Mar-18-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  harrylime: <Travis Bickle: Bobby Fischer a pretty fair chess player I think all you geniuses would agree on said many years ago, "The turning point in my career came with the realization that Black should play to win instead of just steering for equality." Maybe Bobby just had balls and these Kramnik types don't.>

Read some of Kramniks' comments on 'modern' chess re the reaction to this game. Whilst I do agree with him I also felt he was being pretty dismissive of the past and former great players.

Sure chess has been revolutionized by silicon . But if former giants of the game were around now they'd be squeezing the most out of the latest programmes too ... Being around now putting all the 'extra' work in does'nt make you a great. Other factors decide that.

As for Fischer. He was unique. A 20 year old Bobby given a lap top and access to all the silicon chess programmes would devestate the current chess world. It would be carnage.

Mar-18-13  Everett: <Travis Bickle: Bobby Fischer a pretty fair chess player I think all you geniuses would agree on said many years ago, "The turning point in my career came with the realization that Black should play to win instead of just steering for equality." Maybe Bobby just had balls and these Kramnik types don't.>

I dunno, quitting seems to be a big turning point.

Mar-18-13  RookFile: This is a perfectly good game by Kramnik, as we his other draw with black against Svidler.
Mar-20-13  Travis Bickle: <Everett: <Travis Bickle: Bobby Fischer a pretty fair chess player I think all you geniuses would agree on said many years ago, "The turning point in my career came with the realization that Black should play to win instead of just steering for equality." Maybe Bobby just had balls and these Kramnik types don't.> I dunno, quitting seems to be a big turning point.> Yes quitting as WCC!
Mar-23-13  JAMES FRANCIS: Being just an amateur with a rating somewhere around 1800, it appears to me that even I could have held my own in this game. Donít get me wrong, I do like Kramnik, but I just donít see any fight here; both sides. I do believe Fischer would have squeezed out a better strategy. As he said, not psychology, but better moves. Overall, I can not criticize either player, but to enjoy and learn. No one has the right to assume their own perfection is not prone to scrutiny.
Mar-23-13  ACEchess: To take is a mistake... some of the time. I like 17.♖fb1!
Mar-23-13  ACEchess: http://www.chess.com is another good website! I like their Tactics Trainer very much.
Mar-23-13  John Abraham: <James> I agree with you, most of the moves in this game are quite clear and straightforward. The players seemed intent on exchanging pieces and liquidating the position as quickly as possible
Mar-23-13  Just Another Master: Fischers brain was mush after 1972, he was mentally sick sadly and could not have won a match vs Russian Random more or less Karpov, he was losing his mind and someone else told him he was that he believed and that was the end of Fischer.
Mar-27-13  Guitar1352: Can someone please tell me why, on move 12, Black played Nxf4 instead of NxC3? Because Black would then have been up a Pawn, right? Because;

12 ... NxC3
13 BxC3
13 ... BxC3

Did Kramnik decide to keep the game even, or did he generally make an error?

Mar-28-13  Cyphelium: <Guitar1352> 12.- ♘xc3 13. bxc3 ♗xc3 might be playable, but white has compensation for the pawn and black is very passive. There are no forced lines, but after, say, 14. ♗d6 and then ♖d3 and ♖b1, black cannot easily entangle. Probably Kramnik decided against this unclear-but-difficult-to-defend line on seeing that 12.- ♘xf4 equalized.
Mar-28-13  RookFile: It's not like white is going to have any difficulty winning his pawn back. Why put your head into the lion's mouth?
Aug-27-13  Dragi: Robert James Fischer is best ever.

He achieved everything alone.

It could not be done by a man without a strong character , discipline , virtue and iron will ..

Look at his scores against chess luminaries of his time ...look at those NAMES ...Perhaps only with Geller he had a negative result ...

He crushed Soviet Chess machine all alone ... best ever

Jun-24-14  Chris321: Fischer was unique full stop..!another full stop..!
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