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Magnus Carlsen vs Peter Svidler
"White to Lose and Win" (game of the day Apr-20-2013)
World Championship Candidates (2013), London ENG, rd 14, Apr-01
Spanish Game: Closed. Martinez Variation (C78)  ·  0-1

ANALYSIS [x]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 26 OF 27 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Apr-04-13  JPi: Do you think 47.Kc4 is the best. Looks a bit more complex to me. White could dance a lot with the N. Searching for the best square for the King because N couldn't jump to the squares controled by b&d pawns. Why not 47.Ke4 Ne2 48.Ke3 As you noted if Black could save the draw it will be a matter of one tempo. But it's not K + b4&d3 vs K + N which looks draw to me too but with h pawn really I see Carlsen tortures Svidler a lot here.

Just a thought: Imagine the despair of Kramnik seeing this position...

Apr-04-13  Everett: <JENTA: Kasparov in his book "Chess as a model of life" overestimates the importance of the chess game as modelling different kinds of situations of real life>

Of course he does. He would love to be considered the master of both life and chess. What a great way to stroke your own ego.

Apr-04-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: <JPi> 47.Ke4 Ng6 and now Black basically needs five moves to secure his position: Nf8-d7 and three king moves toward the Q-side to support the knight if the white king goes there. I don't see any maneuvering by White that can prevent that (e.g. 48.b5 Nf8 49.Kd5 Kg6 50.b6 Kf7 51.Kd6 Ke8 and now the knight can come to d7).
Apr-04-13  JPi: <Eyal> This is again limit to save Black... <Did you have checked also the position resulting of an exchange of the Queens on c5 or b5?> That means a K in c5 or b5 instead of d5 in your former position after 46.gxh.
Apr-04-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: I don't see how it helps Black - let's say 42.Kc4 (instead of Ke4) 42...Qc6+ 43.Qc5 Qxc5+ 44.Kxc5 g5 45.b4 gxh4 46.gxh4 and now 46...Kg7 47.b5 Nf6 48.b6 Kf7 49.b7 Nd7+ 50.Kc6 Ke8. Kramnik would have said that Black is saved by a miracle/millimeter...
Apr-05-13  JPi: Yeah <Eyal> I tried myself with an exchange on a5 too and Black still draw by one tempo (More than one hour analysis without chess program). Whatever it argues even more on my former feeling. On usual condition I still see Carlsen putting Svidler on the rope. Even on the case "Black saves it by a millimeter.", Kramnik looking at the position would have lost the control on own game. The missing half point would be there. to make the difference.

On general terms it looks that Kramnik is better on the opening phase of the game, Carlsen better on the middle, some rooks ending of Kramnik impress me a lot but Carlsen has also a "natural feel" to handle the ending. More and less I see Carlsen a little bit leading ("My" half point) even Kramnik who was and still is on the top during most of these last 20 years! To say about Carlsen's fantastic talent.

After the World championship I will be please to see a match between these two great chess champions.

Apr-05-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  morfishine: Regarding Kasparov and his book "Chess as a model of life", you guys may be reading a little too deeply into this; The main points he's emphasizing are (1) make plans, (2) do not act on impulse, (3) accept responsibility for your actions & (4) learn from your failed plans to make better plans going forward

Isn't that about it?

Apr-05-13  Xenon Oxide: <morfishine> Well those principles are so self-evident, you don't need to know anything about chess to know them.
Apr-05-13  Dragi: Kramnik was the best in the candidate tournament ...He played best chess and deserved to be contender ... if Carlsen in the meantime does not improve his chess he will defintely loose against Anand ...even though he was my favorite in the candidate tour he did not impress me with his chess neither with his ideas ... At the end of the tournament my sympaties went first to Ivanchuk who probably outplayed both of them because he played without a pressure ...
Apr-06-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  morfishine: <Xenon Oxide> On your comment: <Well those principles are so self-evident, you don't need to know anything about chess to know them> Thats the point: To use chess to help persons who have not been instilled with such principles...
Apr-07-13  strobane: What about 39.Ne4 attacking the pawn on c5?
Apr-07-13  JENTA: I just posted a comment on the game Ivanchuk - Kramnik. Now it seems to me that Ivanchuk could win this game already on the 21. move with a paradoxical move

<21. Bc5-a7!>

(actually, he did a good move <21. Nd5>)

At least, Kramnik has no winning chances then, unless he sacrifices a piece without substantial attack. Interestingly, in the game Carlsen - Svidler as well there was a strange but very strong move with the bishop missed: <30. Bf6-h8!>

Apr-07-13  shivasuri4: <strobane>, 39...Be5, defending f6, would consolidate Black's position if 39.Ne4 were played. The fork on d4 prevents White from capturing the c5 pawn.
Apr-07-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: <JENTA: I just posted a comment on the game Ivanchuk - Kramnik. Now it seems to me that Ivanchuk could win this game already on the 21. move with a paradoxical move 21. Bc5-a7!>

In fact this only leads to a draw after 21...Nxg2. However, it pretty much forces Black to force that draw in order not to lose, so from a practical viewpoint it could have benefited Carlsen since it would have clarified the situation in that game earlier. But Ivanchuk was playing for himself, not for Carlsen.

Apr-20-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  andrewjsacks: Game titled wittily! Very good again.
Apr-20-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  Check It Out: "White to lose and win" - I like it!
Apr-20-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  morfishine: Nice pun to whoever thought this one up!

As far as the game goes, I thought it was interesting how both sides simultaneously brought pressure and defended the thematic attacks they were being subject to; Very entertaining and instructive

Apr-20-13  Conrad93: <May be Carlsen has to learn Yoga!? or what we call in Japan Zazen...>

The two are not related.

Apr-20-13  Abdel Irada: <Conrad93>: Whether that statement is true or not depends on whether you're thinking of yoga solely as a form of exercise, or also as a mental/spiritual discipline. In that form, it does have clear similarities and probable common historical origins with Zazen, a meditation practice of Zen Buddhism:

<Zen (the name of which derives from the Sanskrit "dhyaana" via the Chinese "ch'an"[note 15] is a form of Mahayana Buddhism. The Mahayana school of Buddhism is noted for its proximity with yoga.[157] In the west, Zen is often set alongside yoga; the two schools of meditation display obvious family resemblances.[158] This phenomenon merits special attention since yogic practices have some of their roots in the Zen Buddhist school.[note 16] Certain essential elements of yoga are important both for Buddhism in general and for Zen in particular.[159]>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoga

Apr-20-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  thegoodanarchist: I watched this game real time. I recall at the time that my engine, Deep Shredder 12, recommended 31.Bd5 and White is somewhat better, e.g.:

31.Bd5 Bxd5 32.Qxc5+

But the line is quite tricky and I don't recall what happens after 32...Kg7

Apr-20-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  thegoodanarchist: <Everett: <JENTA: Kasparov in his book "Chess as a model of life" overestimates the importance of the chess game as modelling different kinds of situations of real life>

Of course he does. He would love to be considered the master of both life and chess. What a great way to stroke your own ego.>

The fact of Bobby Fischer existing kind of refutes the book, no?

Apr-20-13  tivrfoa: Very nice pun.
Apr-20-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  Eyal: <I watched this game real time. I recall at the time that my engine, Deep Shredder 12, recommended 31.Bd5 and White is somewhat better, e.g.: 31.Bd5 Bxd5 32.Qxc5+

But the line is quite tricky and I don't recall what happens after 32...Kg7>

Looks like it should be a draw with accurate play on both sides - I've analyzed this line a few posts ago.

Both 30.Bh8 (which was better than Bh4) & 31.Bd5 are very difficult to find and/or calculate and evaluate correctly in severe time trouble like the one Carlsen was in by this stage. In practical terms, the game started spinning out of his control with 26...Bf3! and the resulting tactical murkiness. He probably should have exchanged bishops on d5 first and only then played 27.Ng4, where White seems to enjoy a pleasant edge without much risk.

Apr-20-13
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: This game meets the paradox that :"neither player could save the game".
Apr-20-13  master of defence: Don't understood the pun. Can someone explain me?
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