< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Jan-15-15|| ||Boerboel Guy: <Steve.Patzer: 32....Rxf5 33. Re8+ has me perplexed.>
|Jan-15-15|| ||onesax: I must confess I didn't see past the first two moves, but then again I don't think that I really had to.|
In looking at the puzzle position for about fifteen seconds, I saw two things: that White is threatening Rxg7+, which could be annoying, but more importantly that on material, Black is a piece up.
That immediately made me want to play 32. ... Rxf5, and if 33. Qxf5 Bd4+ would be my reply.
Has I this position with time on my clock, I would have spent more time on it, but even in a blitz game I would've rattled out the first two moves instantly, and figured I'd find the rest of the combination as I go.
|Jan-15-15|| ||DarthStapler: Over a decade ago when I played on ICC (the Internet Chess Club), Ben Finegold played there often (he was only an IM back then), and he also chatted often. I once PM'd him to ask him why he was so more talkative than any of the other titled players.|
"I know how to type?"
|Jan-15-15|| ||gofer: Black is a 2 pawns down, but a bishop up. It looks like Nf5 is holding white's position together. So we simply remove it.|
<32 ... Rxf5>
Everything seems to lose quickly!
33 Re8+ Kh7 <(NOT Kf7)>
Black forces white to choose one of the options (i.e. option 4) that was available at move 33, but now Re8 is en prise and 34 Qh3+ Rh5 is simply losing...
34 Qxf5 Rxg2+
35 Kh1 Nf2+!
35 Qxf2 Rxf2 (Rxf2 Rg1#)
36 Rxf2 Qxe8
33 Qxe4 Rxf1+
34 Kxf1 Rxe4
34 Qb3? (or similar) Rxg2+
35 Kh1 Nf2+!
36 Rxf2 Rg1#
33 Rxg7+ Kxg7
34 Qxf5 Rxg2+
35 Kh1 Nf2+!
35 Qxf2 Rxf2 (Rxf2 Rg1#)
36 Rxf2 Qb1+
33 Qxf5 Bd4+!
34 Kh1 Ng3+! (34 Rf2 Qxf5 mating)
35 hxg3 Qh6
36 Qh5 Qxh5#
I would say that you need to see the rather beautiful combination
<1 ... Rxg2+>
<2 Kh1 Nf2+>
<3 Rxf2 Rg1#>
to say that this one is solved, because Bd4+ only works in the line that was actually played!
|Jan-15-15|| ||morfishine: Finegold Finds Gold with <32...Rxf5> |
A move that is both Offensive and Defensive: Black is a piece ahead, so trading pieces keeps the initiative. Meanwhile, White's only threat (Rxg7+) is undermined
I thought "all" replies lose, but I only considered 33.Qxf5 & 33.Rxg7+ when White has another reply: 33.Re8+ but that looks insufficient too
|Jan-15-15|| ||patzer2: As <morfishine> states, the two main alternatives after <32...Rxf5> are 33. Rxg7+ and 33. Re8+.|
My computer checked (Fritz 12) refutations to 33. Rxg7+ and 33. Re8+ are:
<32...Rxf5> 33. Re8+ Kh7 34. Qxf5 Rxg2+ 35. Kh1 Rg1+! 36. Rxg1 Qxf5 with mate-in seven or less.
<32...Rxf5> 33. Rxg7+ Kxg7 34. Qxf5 Rxg2+ 35. Kh1 Nf2+! 36. Qxf2 Rxf2 37. Rxf2 c4 (-14.28 @ 20 depth).
|Jan-15-15|| ||Penguincw: I got 32...Rxf5, intending 33.Qxf5, followed by 33...Rxg2+, but after 34.Kh1, white looks pretty safe, although that's how far I can analyze...|
|Jan-15-15|| ||dfcx: Black to move. White has two pawns for a bishop and threatens Rxe4.|
A) 33. Qxf5 Rxg2+ 34.Kh1 Rg1+ 35.Rxg1 Qxf5 36.Rg/exg7+ Kf8
B) 33.Re8+ Qxe8 34. Qxf5
I missed 33...Bd4+
|Jan-15-15|| ||diagonalley: yikes... what a neat puzzle... all i could come up with was 32.... N-Q7 33.RxB+ QxR 34.NxQ NxQ+ ... which appears to out a clear rook up :-(|
|Jan-15-15|| ||TheaN: Thursday 15 January 2015 <32....?>|
This one took me a while, but I guess it's also because of the nature of the position. Black is up a bishop for two pawns, but more importantly is that both colors have clear threats on the king's position. White is threatening Rxe4 and Rxg7+, Black has the option of Rxg2+, clearing the bishop's diagonal for Bd4+ and possibly Rxf5.
With black to move, it's the question how he can combine his own threats whilst neutralizing white's with a single move. At first sight, the white knight plays a critical role in the white offense, and clearing it also frees the bishop's scope at the same time. This suggests <32....Rxf5!>.
It took me a while to realize what to do after white accepts the exchange sacrifice. <33.Qxf5>. Obvious is 33....Rxg2+?! 34.Kh1 but now black is in a tough spot. Basically the only thing he has left is 34....Nf2+ 35.Qxf2 (Rxf2 Rg1#) Rxf2 36.Rxf2 . With the king on h1, black lost the majority of his power and the white rooks are active. It is likely won, but I didn't want to make the same mistake as yesterday and go for the inferior continuation. Instead, black should look at the recently uncovered bishop; then it hit. After <33....Bd4+ 34.Kh1 (Rf2 Rxg2+ 35.Kh1 Rg1#) Ng3+! 36.hxg3 Qh6 37.Qh5 Qxh5# 0-1> it is turned into a forced mate instead.
White needs to decline the sacrifice, but the biggest problem is that it simply wins black a second piece then. The best try would be to relocate some of black's pieces with <33.Re8+<>> but black can simply ignore this with <33....Kf7!<>>, after <34.Qxf5+? Qxf5 35.Rxf5 Kxe8 <>> white is not mated, but he has a rook left against two additional pieces. Lost just as much.
|Jan-15-15|| ||TheaN: Forgot to mention white's 'best' try in 33.Rxg7+ but the problem of this move is that it nullifies any advantage of the double rook vs queen. After 33....Kxg7, white doesn't have much better than 34.Qxf5 but now black is safe to play the Rxg2+ with Nf2+ combination: 34....Rxg2+ 35.Kh1 Nf2+ 36.Qxf2 (Rxf2 Rg1#) Rxf2 37.Rxf2 and now black has queen vs rook, which should be much easier to win.|
33.Re8+ Kf7?! is a roundup mistake, because black 'only' goes up two pieces after the said variation. Instead Qxe8 and Kh7 look more risky but white has no play left.
Analysis by Stockfish 5 64 SSE4.2:
1. (-16.29): 34.Rxg7+ Kxg7 35.Qxf5 Rxg2+ 36.Kh1 Nf2+ 37.Qxf2 Rxf2 38.Rxf2 Qe4+ 39.Kg1 Qxd5
2. (-50.91): 34.Re8+ Kh7 35.Qxf5 Rxg2+ 36.Kh1 Nf2+ 37.Qxf2 Rxf2 38.Rxf2 Qxe8
3. (-#10): 34.Rxe4 Rxe4 35.Qd1 Bd4+ 36.Kh1 Rxf1+ 37.Qxf1 Qf5 38.Qb1 Qe5 39.h3 Re1+ 40.Qxe1 Qxe1+ 41.Kh2 Be5+ 42.g3 Qxg3+ 43.Kh1 Qh2#
Black 34. after <34.Re8+>:
Analysis by Stockfish 5 64 SSE4.2:
1. (-99.79): 34...Qxe8 35.Qxg4 Rxf1+ 36.Kxf1 Qf7+ 37.Ke2 Qf2+ 38.Kd3 Qd4+ 39.Ke2 Qd2+ 40.Kf3 Ng5+ 41.Qxg5 Qxg5
2. (-54.12): 34...Kh7 35.Qxf5 Rxg2+ 36.Kh1 Nf2+ 37.Qxf2
3. (-8.54): 34...Kf7 35.Qxf5+ Qxf5 36.Rxf5+ Kxe8 37.h3 Bd4+ 38.Kh2 Rg3
|Jan-15-15|| ||Edeltalent: 32...? Black to move
Black is up a piece. Although the position is messy and White has counterplay (attacking the knight e4 and the bishop g7), the black pieces are very active and after calculating some lines, I concluded that Black has several ways to keep the advantage. Even the strange 32...Nd2 seems to turn out well. However, the most forcing move that should be looked at first is 32...Rxf5. After 33.Qxf5, Black can go for:
- a Q+B vs R+R endgame with 33...Rxg2+ 34.Kh1 Nf2+ 35.Qxf2 (Rxf2 Rg1#) Rxf2 36.Rxf2 c4, which looks winning
- a Q+N vs R+R endgame with 33...Rxg2+ 34.Kh1 Rg1+ 35.Rxg1 Qxf5, which looks winning (e.g. 36.R1xg7+ Kf8 37.Rgf7+ Qxf7 38.Rxf7+ Kxf7 and the c-pawn just runs through)
- a mating attack with 33...Bd4+ 34.Kh1 Ng3+ 35.hxg3 Qh6+, which looks winning ;-)
White can try 33.Rxg7+, but 33...Kxg7 34.Qxf5 Rxg2+ 35.Kh1 Nf2+ leaves no hope.
|Jan-15-15|| ||gars: Shame on me! I did not see 33) ...Bd4+, which solves it all!|
|Jan-15-15|| ||Bycotron: Move 32, black to play.
Oh dear, why do I get the feeling I'm about to spend the next thirty minutes of my life analyzing this position? Chess is so hard! :)
Black appears to have one mighty shot on the board, but it is not at all easy to calculate all of the variations for me. Nevertheless, here we go!
32...Rxf5 when black wins a second piece, attacks the Qf3 hoping she will leave the defense of her King, takes the pressure off his own Bg7 and opens its long diagonal simultaneously!
If white responds 33.Qxf5 then
34...Bd4+ (Rxg2+ is not as strong due to 35.Kh1 Nf2+ 36.Qxf2 Rxf2 37.Rxf2 when black still has some work to do.)
35.Kh1 Ng3+ (Nf2+ feels more natural but is not as clear after simply 36.Rxf2)
36...Qh6# and I've already used up thirty minutes on my clock!
Now I'll quickly look at potential refutations for white on move 33.
33.Rxg7+ (After close inspection, this appears to be the only other move available to white on the entire board! How sad.)
36.Qxf2 (36.Rxf2 Rg1#)
37.Rxf2 and black should have an easy win with Q vs R after eg 37...Qd3
|Jan-15-15|| ||KingsPawns: 32...Rxf5 33.Qxf5 Rxg2+ is really thempting. But the Rook is useless. The power lies with the bishop and the knight.|
|Jan-15-15|| ||Jimfromprovidence: I immediately went for 32...Nd2, seeing 33 Re8+ Qxe8 34 Qxe4 Rxf5.|
click for larger view
White cannot recapture with the rook because of the mate threat, so after
35 Qxf5 Qe3+ 36 Kh1 Nxf1 black is ahead.
click for larger view
White can capture the knight directly or harass black's king with checks first. Black can take white's a pawn or push his own c pawn.
|Jan-15-15|| ||patzer2: <TheaN> Just curious. What kind of hardware are you running for Stockfish? I'm running Fritz 12 on a dual core 2.1 GHZ intel processor with 4 MB of RAM.|
|Jan-15-15|| ||Longview: Man, I really need to get board vision glasses next time I go in. Saw the relatively "free" Knight sac with Queen takes reply but was stuck. No way did I see the bishop going to the check on d4. Jimmy Cricket (Opps, I think I just dated myself)|
|Jan-15-15|| ||chrisowen: Go ok f5 line low knight ash e4 in g3 as:
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|Jan-15-15|| ||chrisowen: Mission select better devious ploy in beck and call clink mind dread jangles soveriegns a line face off an afraid fans f5 jolly good black ahead by plus four curdle g7 arm d4 enter the freight train kapow f6 dead f5 sugar field cane fetch bamboo plum faery back flick fine under the scalpel g8 as left a king's a pave fold an to his own devices only real threat g7 whence good still for black trade again down and endgame queen eg liege nt i f1 any glass ceiling ash e4 wax a cut i curry to favour ave a f2 able f5 regain and queen mops up queenside at a3 etc raven rooks swop dont you know and store away f5 tame finish am rock a f2 versus g7 in a1 check off reset i reel a good gives et
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|Jan-15-15|| ||chrisowen: A kids fever foals and calves hoof huffle flush flinch a grin heffa g6 lump fashion flesh out fish f5 around g7 and d4 alf way there bus am foghorn eg frenchie he goofball eh g3 guffaw heartily change farm hand
radical recind batch ie festoon i fees in feels again good ash in 32.d6 alive double dipped avert danger jab in dances and dreams dagger true deem a dabble oh darker dabhand douses petrol on the fire officer dibble and dinghy surfs d6 up on tend ar good dog hit do good in drowns out e4 dunces daring a dearth of options dharma g7 as key am route 6d one dinkys the ride a daquiri en f3 vision driven drolls again dapper gent i lead dreams up driers dulcit tones inter ave dugout pawn ive douche bag again diffuse a: |
give down dead fold deep and difficult federal exchange at cinch fiddle g7 ave dunder head dank fa da dee da fladgel line no thank you vow fade adept rook as wheel and aims left in manage off re have g7 and alf fold i afraid in g3 lade eline to rest beset in bet i see every in be fetch aim cold duo call evermore bus ever a d6 over straight port of g3 and bullrush too soon:
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ascendancy another bind jet about alive ogle a king's a flap engages h1 aperture bus light f1 black cashes g7 instill a victor quench g7 ogle knight arm e4 us again see however you gain to gap rook and e4 wins heap on ive a scream g8 etc rook an g7 lesson give queen wins am goading too e4 enter a guard it arduous in a gog effort g7 ash d4 suttle gangway wins affable bind f5:
come fetch again back and black has queen for rook and soon to level up foot soldier total a mind over ash aid 33...Bd4 34.Kh1 mate in 3 and bold 34.Rf2 mate in six a cut i curry favour ave safe 34...Ng3+ mate in two
|Jan-15-15|| ||boz: I was with you till the part about the foot soldier who stepped in a plate of curry and thought he'd been mated.|
|Jan-15-15|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: Black has a bishop for two pawns and is fully mobilized. White threatens 33.Rxe4 and possibly 33.Rxg7+. It makes perfect sense for black to temporarily give back material to eliminate one of white's most active pieces.|
32... Rxf5! diverts the Q from defense of g2 and wins by force:
When I looked at this in the morning I intended to post:
A) 33.Qxf5 Rxg2+ 34.Kh1 Nf2+! (I looked first at 34... Rh2+ 35.Kxh2 Qg3+ 36.Kh1 which appears to draw) 35.Qxf2 (Rxf2 Rg1#) Rxf2 36.Rxf2 Bd4! 37.Rg2 Qb1+ forces mate.
Oops - big flaw - the retained image error in analysis (the Bg7 is no longer there to shield the king from check). Therefore the assessment has to change to 36...Bd4??, a losing blunder. Much better is 36...Qb1+ 37.Kg2 Qd1! threatening Qxd5, Qg4+ and Bd4. This should be won by black
In any case, there is another forcing approach that is quicker:
A) 33.Qxf5 (Re8+? Kf7 34.Qxf5+ Qxf5+ 34.Rxf5+ Kxe8 wins) Rxg2+
34.Kh1 Rg1+! 35.Rxg1 Qxf5 36.R7xg7+ Kh8 37.Rg8+ Kh7 38.R8g7+ Kh6
Now white is out of useful checks and can't defend the king.
39.Rg8 (R7g2 Nf2+ wins) Qf3+ 40.R1g2 Qf1+ 41.Rg1 Nf2#
A.1) 36.R2xg7+ Kf8! 37.Ref7+ (h3 Qf1+ 38.Kh2 Qf2+ 39.Kh1 Ng3+ wins) Qxf7 38.Rxf7+ Kxf7 39.Kg2 Ke7 40.Kf3 Nf6 41.Kf4 Kd6 wins the d-pawn and the game.
Time for review.....
|Jan-15-15|| ||CHESSTTCAMPS: <Shame on me! I did not see 33) ...Bd4+, which solves it all!> Same here, but found a more long-winded method.|
|Jan-15-15|| ||TheBish: Y Shulman vs B Finegold, 2013|
Black to play (32...?) "Medium", Black is up a piece for two pawns.
32...Rxf5! and now:
(a) 33. Qxf5 Bd4+! 34. Kh1 Ng3+ 35. hxg3 Qh6+ mates.
(b) 33. Rxg7+ Kxg7 34. Qxf5 Rxg2+ 35. Kh1 Nf2+ 36. Qxf2 (36. Rxf2 Rg1#) 36...Rxf2 37. Rxf2 Qe4+ 38. Rg2+ Kf6 and Black wins.
(c) 33. Re8+ Kh7 34. Qxf5 Rxg2+ 35. Kh1 Rg1+ 36. Rxg1 Qxf5 and wins.
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