< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
|Oct-12-13|| ||Penguincw: As usual on difficult puzzles, I try to think of something. Today it would 36.Qh8+ and 37.Be4+.|
|Oct-12-13|| ||gofer: Hmmm, I see quite a few of the regulars missed this. |
I think as soon as you realise that white is on the verge of being mated and white has no winning defence, then the options at the other end of the board are the only way forward.
The most important part of the exchange is removing Rf8 with check as this finally frees up Nf2 from its pin.
Only at that point can white consider any kind of defence for his king...
...and only then do we see that the queen can be trapped by Nxh3 AND then attacked by Nf3!
Given that there is <no other option> for white, I don't see this as so difficult (i.e. a reasonably simple Saturday - especially if we compare it white Nxg5 hxg5 Bxg5 earlier in the week!). Also, I am not sure I agree with those that say we would not see it over the board. If you can analyse that all other (defensive) moves are losing surely you start to look at <any> other options and <Rg7+> is the only check worth looking at!
If the only two options are resign or find the continuation after <Rg7+>, then I would hope that I would either lose on time or find <Rg7+ - Qxg7+ - Bxf8+ - Nxh3 - Nf3>.
|Oct-12-13|| ||gofer: Anyone got a silicon monster to hand?
What does it say to <32 ... Nf3!>
Did black miss a win?
|Oct-12-13|| ||morfishine: <Devere> Yes, I got Black winning after 35...Rxf2+ 36.Ke1 Qg1+ 37.Nf1 Rxf1+
38.Bxf1 Qf2+ 39.Kd1 Nf3+ and the mate threat at f2 wins the White Queen|
<gofer> I think Black could've won with 35...Rxf2+, but 32...Nf3 looks premature due to 33.exf3 gxf3 34.Nxf3 Qxf3 35.Bxf3 Rxf3 36.Nxf2 Be3
37.Qd8+ Rf8 38.Qxf8+ Kxf8 39.Bxd6
|Oct-12-13|| ||morfishine: <Patriot> BTW: Very nice job! and to all the <others> who got this correct too|
The more I think about it, this problem shouldn't have been too hard since the only course is to follow forcing moves or 'checks'; and in this case, the only reasonable 'check' is <36.Rg7+>
|Oct-12-13|| ||Patriot: Here's something that I think helped me on this problem. First it certainly wasn't easy. But when you realize there seems to be no reasonable moves for white, it's time to switch to "desperation mode".|
When I first started analyzing this, I first noticed the threat of ...Qxg2+. That was a tip that slow moves just don't cut it--a check is probably necessary. Analyzing in detail to see how white gets his butt kicked is a waste of time. Time spent on this is less time looking for something positive for white. So I think avoiding this analysis issue was also a big step toward finding the solution. I saw that it was losing so I moved on in search of better moves for white. In other words, don't spend a lot of time calculating how you will lose!
I seriously doubt though I would have found this OTB unless I had a LOT of time remaining!
|Oct-12-13|| ||Patriot: Thanks <morf>! I read your analysis earlier and saw that you missed the critical move Nf3. You were SO close! That was a really tough problem for me.|
|Oct-12-13|| ||PawnSac: First of all, instead of Bh3, black had
35... Rxf2+ 36.Ke1 Qg1+ 37.Bf1 Nf3+ 38.exf3 Bxd2+ 39.Kd1 Qxf1+
40. Kc2 Bf4+ 41. Kb3 Qb1+ 42. Ka4 Rxa2+ 43. Ba3 Bxe5
or 37. Nf1 Rxf1+ 38. Bxf1 Nf3+ 39. exf3 Qf2+ 40. Kd1 Qd2#
But with 35. ..Bh3? black missed his shot
The difficulty is the Rf8 pin of Nf2, and any attempts to shield
it fail miserably. i.e., 36.Nf3 Qxg2+ 37.Ke1 Nxf3+ 38.exf3 Qxf2+
but if the Rf8 could be eliminated, then the black queen could
be trapped with Nf3! Once I realized this, the sac line became
36.Rg7+ Bxg7 37.Qxg7+ Kxg7 38.Bxf8+ Kxf8 39.Nxh3 Nxh3 40.Nf3
winning the Q and remaining up a piece and 2 pawns.
If black tried to avoid this line and refuses the sac..
36.Rg7+ Kh8 37.Rxg5+ Kh7 38.Rg7+ Kh8 39.Rf7+ Kg8 40.Rxf8+ Bxf8
41.Qxg3+ Qxg3 42.Bxg3 leaves white up 2 pieces and 3 pawns.
The biggest surprise, after figuring all this out, is that black
actually won with Bh3?? since white blundered with Qxg3.
A very interesting position in a very messy game of wild risk.
|Oct-12-13|| ||Whitehat1963: Wow! Ridiculous finish!|
|Oct-12-13|| ||PawnSac: morfishine: (1) 36.Nf3 Qxg2+ 37.Ke1 Nxf3+ 38.exf3 Qxf2+ 39.Kd1 <Qxf3+?> 40.Kc2 Bf5 |
<< 39.. Qd2# >>
|Oct-12-13|| ||Vincenze: 36. Rg7+ Bxg7 37. Qxg7+ Kxg7 38. Bxf8+ Kxf8 39. Nxh3 Nxh3 40. Nf3 Qxg2+ 41. Kxg2 Nf4+ 42. Kxg3 Nxe2+ And white wins|
|Oct-12-13|| ||JSYantiss: Game is annotated 36. Rxg7+....this isn't possible, as there is no piece on g7 for Black after move 35.|
|Oct-12-13|| ||kevin86: it funny that with the brilliant line possible,white would eventually TRAP the black queen AND win.|
Instead,he falls for a double pin and immediate checkmate.
|Oct-12-13|| ||Jimfromprovidence: After 36. Rg7+ Bxg7 37. Qxg7+ Kxg7 38. Bxf8+ Kxf8 39. Nxh3 shouldn't black resign right here?|
click for larger view
It's because no matter what black does he has no answer for 40 Nf3! which creates two passed pawns for white with no way to stop both.
For example 39...Ke7 (to try to catch the a pawn) loses to 40 Nf3 Nxf3 41 exf3.
click for larger view
|Oct-12-13|| ||gofer: <morfishine:>...
32 ... Nf3
33 exf3 Bxd2
34 Qxd2 gxf3 winning easily
34 Nxd2 Qxd3+
35 Kxf2 gxf3
36 Nxf3 Bg4
So, I was actually thinking that 33 Nxf3 is necessary, but
what the heck do I know...
|Oct-12-13|| ||Phony Benoni: Despite its spectacular nature, this is not a hard combination to calculate once the idea is perceived. I have no doubt Anand could solve it. In fact, I have no doubt Beat Zueger could solve it were he looking at the position in the comfort of his living room while sipping a morning cup of coffee instead of staring at the board in the fourth hour of a grueling fight with his clock ticking away.|
To my mind, the most difficult puzzles have numerous branches that must be kept straight and calculated accurately.. Today's puzzle is a forcing affair from beginning to end.
What makes it beautiful and difficult is the calm after the storm. If those three initial moves had forced stalemate, most of us would have seen them quickly. But to recognize the power of the relatively quiet continuation puts it into Saturday class.
So how do you find the idea in the first place? Don't ask me; I didn't solve it. But it has to be part desperation; White is so busted that any move goes straight to the Candidate List. And perhaps from musing that unpinning the ♘f2 would solve a lot of problems, realizing the 36.Nf3 wouldn't get it done, wonder if there was some way to eliminate the ♖f8, and appllying Desperation from there.
My Evil Demon from the 19th Century insists that you must see this game: Michelet vs Kieseritzky, 1843.
|Oct-12-13|| ||scormus: Super puzzle! Not at all easy to see that when all the fur has been flying with B is massively ahead in material, 40 Nf3! is a killer. Worthy of CG at the weekend.|
|Oct-12-13|| ||scormus: <PB KGA Salvio, Cochrane variation> Thanks for the game link. Cool game and completely in the spirit of the age. Almost the last (first?) word on this theme ;)|
|Oct-12-13|| ||eblunt: Fantastic the way B+N can completly tie up P+Q (+4 pawns more valuable), and sit there as the white pawns charge forward.|
|Oct-12-13|| ||rubato: in the morning I began to look at this; after 10min. didn`t find anything; afternoon 10min : nothing; evening : found it at once; that happens often : starring : nothing, looking : yes; did anyone mention already that 35.Rxf2+ instead of Bh3 is winning?|
|Oct-12-13|| ||BOSTER: Black played the nice
qame and he won . After 33 ...Nxe4 game is over.
|Oct-12-13|| ||Nerwal: Several years later, in another english opening where black also pushed his kingside and center pawns forward, Zueger was still unhappy with trapped queens :|
Rotstein - Zueger, Cannes 1998
click for larger view
32. ♖xe4!! 1-0
|Oct-12-13|| ||JG27Pyth: I found this very difficult indeed. I looked at Qg7+ for all the reasons people say it should be looked at (White's in mate-in-one trouble so look at everything) but my poor conventional rule-bound materialist brain couldn't fathom that there was a trapped black queen and a crushingly easily won endgame over the horizon.|
|Oct-13-13|| ||morfishine: <gofer> Yes of course, 33.Nxf3 is forced or necessary. White appears safe after 32...Nf3 33.Nxf3 gxf3 34.exf3|
I thought White was safe after 33.exf3 Bxd2 34.Qxd2 (being able to simplify and bail out with 35.Qg5+) but 35...gxf3 is too strong
|Oct-13-13|| ||Khapablanca: I saw the solution all the way till the end, just in about 3 minutes and I am a mere 2000 and some USCF elo. The patterns are clear. Ovoid mate, a blow on g7 with rook and queen, another on f8 to the attacking rook, trapped queen and some passed pawns after all those forced blows and some nice knight moves. Ease task for me in about just 3 minutes. (This time).|
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