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Viswanathan Anand vs Magnus Carlsen
"Game of Thrones" (game of the day Nov-22-2013)
Anand - Carlsen World Championship Match (2013), Chennai IND, rd 9, Nov-21
Nimzo-Indian Defense: Saemisch Variation (E25)  ·  0-1



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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 32 OF 33 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Dec-24-13  haydn20: Please excuse me for not digging back thru all the kibitzes. When I played a lot, the Nimzo was my fave as Black, but I can't remember ever facing 4. f3. How common is this? How many moves deep would a GM be expected to know this variation? It seems 8...c4! is almost a refutation of White's line. Surely Anand would have seen this far--after all, he chose the line. Thanks in advance.
Premium Chessgames Member
  tamar: From just his history, it would be pretty hard to foresee Magnus choosing 7...exd5 in the f3 variation. He only faced the position once, and played the most popular move (401 times versus 94 times played) 7...Nxd5 in I Krush vs Carlsen, 2007 1/2

My guess Anand had scads of novelties against 7...Nxd5 which he himself played against Dreev in his youth, and which appears to be more dynamic than 7...exd5, and took a cursory glance at the positions including 8...c4 which before this game was never considered especially good.

Dec-24-13  MarkFinan: Haydn20.. If you're talking to me, I don't know, I can't help you there. Honestly mate, you're asking the wrong person because you'll know more than me. All I remember is thinkingt 4.f3 was something I personally hadn't seen before, but then again there's a lot of opening moves I haven't seen before. If you back to the early kibitzing there's a few GM'S commentating as the game was played live, and they kinda explain the idea behind certain moves. I know Anand had to go for the win so I'm *guessing* it must be a quite aggressive opening?! He just looks a bit odd? Ugly even? But I know nothing of or about this opening..

Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <haydn20....When I played a lot, the Nimzo was my fave as Black, but I can't remember ever facing 4. f3. How common is this?>

For a time in the early 1990s, common enough, though I believe Shirov vs Karpov, 1992 put the loser off the variation.

Here is an early game with 4.f3 where the line is not used as a device to transpose into a Saemisch: Portisch vs G Forintos, 1968.

Dec-24-13  MarkFinan: Perf.. As an e4 player you naturally don't think of playing f3, especially before you've castled! And that's not me *telling* you anything about chess because you know more than me, it's just my opinion and I mean in my experience too. I just flicked through Shirov vs Karpov, 1992 and I see that, yeah. I actually have seen it before and maybe I should have looked through the whole game before giving <Haydn20> the benefit of my wisdom, lol. I only started to look through this game for the ending as I remember this more than any of the other WCC games for some reason. I'm sure he knows a lot more than me as it is though, I know it sounds daft but until this year I haven't really paid much attention to what the openings are called, I just know the first few book moves of most lines in most e4 openings. I think that as much as I love and want to learn more about chess ,it's players and its history, I'd just rather play the game.. win or lose, because that's the only way ill improve! Knowing who won Hastings 1895 isn't going to make me a better player, only playing is..
Dec-25-13  LIFE Master AJ:

My video on this game, so far MOST <(but not all)> of the feedback has been relatively positive. (I can live with that.)

Dec-25-13  haydn20: <perfidious>,<MF>, thanks for the replies. I played seriously from 1974-1983 & have come back only lately. Thanks esp. for Shirov-Karpov, a v. interesting game. The game here is fascinating, with Black going all-in on an attack when a draw would have been fine. Should put an end to the Carlsen-just-waits-for-the-endgame crap once for all.
Dec-26-13  Jaidip: Opening preparations and finding novelties are not a perfect way to develop Chess. Moveorder preparations doesn't Supports the flow of Chess. Chess Should be grasped by Language reasoning Logic expereince listening Viewing instructive positions and games understanding.These are the flexible elements and Moveorder preparations are rigid way which insults the Subject CHESS.
Dec-26-13  PaulBl: I'm not quite sure from where your wisdom comes, Jaidip, maybe you are an expert on chess preparation or chess education. To me, the best guide in doing so is the way the top players prepare and study for the past ten years. Whatever they do, they have results, not only coming from their talent. Do you, or anybody else, know what the top players did and do?

Kind regards,

Dec-30-13  MarkFinan: Nice shot <PaulBl>, bloody nice shot! So what do the top players do then??
Jan-02-14  checkmateyourmove: 8...C4 reminds me of kramnik's qoute on magnus and his boa style.
Jan-05-14  PaulBl: Hi MarkFinan, I really don't know what the top players do when they study and prepare, certainly the last 10 years. Therefore I asked my questions. I got the impression that Jaidip didn't know either, but others may know. And Carlsen, being the strongest chess player right now, would pose the best example to copy, an inspiration for all those that want to get stronger. This is not applicable to me anymore, lacking both talent and youth.

Kind regards,

Feb-15-14  Salty: Interestingly, 4.f3 was also Nakamura's try against Carlsen in Zurich, in a game in which Naka could and probably should have won. Nakamura vs Carlsen, 2014

I wonder if he got the idea from this Carlsen-Anand game.

Mar-02-14  knowall: How about 27 Be4 as a move. The idea is put the Bishop on c2 dealing with the threat in some lines of the black c pawn queening. If the Bishop is captured then Nxe4 and how is the threat of Nd6 to be met. Once the bishop is on c2 then Nh5 followed by Ng7 is a threat. Thought of Be4 myself as real men do not use computers.
Mar-02-14  knowall: As you were:
After 27 Be4 cd 28 Nxe4 Black has 28... Qd5 and if 29 Nd6 then 29... Bb7 seems to refute was a clever idea at the time
Mar-11-14  Levo: Why do I feel like Anand threw this game?
Mar-28-14  PinnedPiece: GTM score 47 par 41.

Quite a game.

Mar-31-14  epicchess: csmath, please think about the position before you start talking trash about other people's responses. Considering the fact that my rating is most likely like twice of yours, I would my comments to myself if I were you.
Mar-31-14  SirRuthless: Shots fired!
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <epicchess> My guess is that your rating is <not> twice that of <csmath>, for he is a most capable player-doubt your rating is even twice that of my own!
Apr-03-14  epicchess: perfidous, it was an exaggeration. However, I am still better than you, and him. Also, I do not post responses randomly, I analyze them myself, not on a computer, like most people here do. I think it is bad to compare human games with that of a machine.
Apr-09-14  joddon: magnus fights up the rank at a time. once the fifth rank is his he walks his way up very very slowly.....and in the end anand is making no counter play uses, I mean he has no effort in his he sleeping , I mean there needs to be a lot more said and done to pick the right magnus the initiative means you are dead.not easy ofcourse but one has to try atleast...poor effort by anand in my case.
Apr-14-14  Everett: Far from being refuted, 4.a3 and 4.f3 are absolutely the way to go to attack the Nimzo. Botvinnik and Bronstein thought so, and I agree. Spassky has played these themes as well.

And Karpov didn't always have a picnic with it.

Timman vs Karpov, 1991

Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: You can trudge through 32 pages of kibitzing, or just watch this:
Aug-31-14  coldsweat: How soon can we begin commenting on the first game of the 2014 Championship?
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