chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing

Jon Ludvig Hammer vs Michal Vladimirovich Krasenkow
Rilton Cup (2013/14), Stockholm SWE, rd 8, Jan-04
King's Indian Attack: Double Fianchetto (A07)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

explore this opening
find similar games 1 more J L Hammer/Krasenkow game
sac: 51.Rxf5+ PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: You can step through the moves by clicking the < and > buttons, but it's much easier to simply use the left and right arrow keys on your keyboard.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.
PREMIUM MEMBERS CAN REQUEST COMPUTER ANALYSIS [more info]

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Jan-08-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  kevin86: I started OK, but was bogged down later.
Jan-08-16  saturn2: I opted for 53 Rxf5 and after gxf the black king is obstructed by its own pawns h5 and f5 which alas he cannot take. The decision for the 54 th move was not so obvious first to me. Qxh5 was tempting but apart from winning 3 pawns for the sacrificed rook the black king would escape and there was also no way to fork the black king and rook after a few moves. So I would have also played 54 Qg7
Jan-08-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: <stst> <Just need to check if 51.h4+ works: (A)........... KxP
52.Qd8+ Kh3 (forced, only sq. left)>

Black also has 52...g5 here.


click for larger view

The 51 h4+ line is interesting and leads to a decent side puzzle, for those so inclined.

The problem is to ascertain why 51 h4+ Kxh4 52 Qd8+, below, does not seem to work for white ...


click for larger view

...while 51 h4+ Kxh4 52 Qf6+, does seem to work for white.


click for larger view

Jan-08-16  stst: <.. but I think the point here everyone makes is that this puzzle is too easy for a Friday.>

make the diffulty level match what's labelled!
The label sometimes may mislead the solver to unnecessary go deeper than what actually required.

---> On Fritz?!
<but Fritz refused, making some very contemptuous remarks. Can anyone explain me what I'm doing wrong?> What's wrong is simple: Just don't buy it!! We already have our own computer, born with us!!

Jan-08-16  houtenton: <oxspawn> About Fritz; I am disappointed about your misplaced silly joke on my serious ment question (if it was ment like a joke). Or my english is not good enough to explain what I wanted to know from other chessfans over here and you misunderstood me or I did not get the point you want to make to me. I was until now proud to be part of an exclusive chessforum in which we respect each other till the end, according to the basic rules of this chess-site. As an older chess-fan (and chessteacher) it's my daily pleasure to be here and read the interesting comments of other chessfans all over the world. And this forum differs from other lowlevel chatboxes with different subjects, like f.i. about investing, in the good manners and fine discussions (about chess) in general. So I did not appreciate your comment.

<stst> I notice that some over here don't like the computer-chessprograms? Well, I did it without it for many years, but mainly the analyses by <patzer2> gave me the idea to buy the serious Fritz2 (for 50 euro's). It can be helpfull, it depends on how you use it. I still try to solve the problems always visually. Last but not least: why is Fritz not able to mate me with K+B+B against my K?

Jan-08-16  stst: Jimfromprovidence: <stst> <Just need to check if 51.h4+ works: (A)........... KxP 52.Qd8+ Kh3 (forced, only sq. left)>

Black also has 52...g5 here.

click for larger view

The 51 h4+ line is interesting and leads to a decent side puzzle, for those so inclined.

The problem is to ascertain why 51 h4+ Kxh4 52 Qd8+, below, does not seem to work for white ...

Thanks to JimfromProvidence..

click for larger view

...while 51 h4+ Kxh4 52 Qf6+, does seem to work for white

In a rush, dont see the difference to Qd8+ esp. Black got g5, Q closer to what advantage...pl. research to convert "seem" to "surely"" (?)

[P.S. Did see the direct RxP+, but thought that it's "Difficult" and spotted the P on h-file, thought that it might be of use... ]

Jan-08-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  thegoodanarchist: I got all of the moves played in the game, but didn't see that ...Kf4 would allow the king/queen skewer.

But I am feeling under the weather and so give myself a pass on that.

Jan-08-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: <houtenton> At http://en.chessbase.com/post/engine... are instructions for installing a commercial endgame table base to work with Fritz or Houdini.

Also there are online table bases you can use for free, such as the 7-piece table base at http://www.shredderchess.com/online....

What I sometimes do is copy the positon (i.e. fen) from Fritz and paste it to the "input fen" location in the shredder table base.

I plan to purchase Houdini Pro 4 and install the 5 piece SYZYGY "Endgame Turbo 4" table base to work with it.

I understand Endgame Turbo 4 will work with the free Stockfish program.

Jan-08-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  AvidChessMan: I agree, I found this one simple for a Friday, as I saw the right move after a few seconds. The rook sac looked really good to me. I didn't even bother thinking too much past 52. Qg7 to the skewer or the mate. It would have been harder if I had thought about it more.
Jan-08-16  houtenton: <patzer2> Thank you! I still have some work to do, it's a new world for me. Is the Fritz14 program really not capable of finding the mate with two bisshops?
Jan-08-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: <houtenton> Just realized I didn't answer your question, "why can't Fritz solve your simple endgame?" The short answer is the program doesn't access an endgame table base which would quickly calculate the moves to mate or indicate if it's a forced draw.

Of course that begs the question "why doesn't Fritz include an endgame table base with the program?" My guess is it's because doing so would likely (1) increase costs and drive up the Fritz program's price to the point that it would reduce sales and profits for Chessbase and (2) would take up more computer space and CPU capacity than many users, who rarely use a table base would want to give up.

Maybe in the future they'll start offering an installed table base as an option with these Chess programs.

Jan-08-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  paulalbert: Agree with some other comments that this seemed easier than usual for Friday.
Jan-08-16  houtenton: <patzer2> Thanks again. Now I'm beginning to understand more or less how these things are organized. I'm glad with your engaged reaction, like I hoped to get tonight.
Jan-08-16  stacase: <Sneaky: I wonder how many people boasting how easy the puzzle is would have followed it up with Qxh5+?? -- which, as far as I can tell, leads nowhere.>

I never even considered it, g7 was just too good (-:

Jan-08-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  DarthStapler: Got it
Jan-08-16  devere: <SometimesGood: Yep, everyone is so smart, or I am so dumb?>

It's pattern recognition. I don't have a particularly quick sight of the board, but Rxf5+ followed by Qg7+ popped into my head in a few seconds or less, and after that I worked out the details. I guess you just haven't seen a combination of this type before. The next one you see will be much easier.

Jan-08-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: My first act of analysis was to observe that White has a perpetual if he wishes, then I carried on from there--as has been observed, this might well have been posted earlier in a week than as a Friday puzzle--the forcing, relatively short process detracts from a typical Friday level of difficulty.

<SometimesGood> As <devere> wisely noted, this is indeed pattern recognition; the more such ideas with which one becomes familiar, the greater facility with which one will analyse.

Even world champions started somewhere; there is always room for improvement. It was said that Tal, no shrinking violet as a combinative player, never missed a chance at solving 'What's The Mating Idea?' puzzles.

Jan-08-16  morfishine: One more note on <pattern recognition> and to slightly expound on <devere> & my dear friend <perfidious>, this is directed to those perturbed that others "saw it" while other struggled.

"Pattern recognition" can benefit the lower rated player vs the higher rated player. For example, if a higher-rated player enjoys the benefits of "knowing" more "patterns" than a lower-rated player, that doesn't preclude the lower-rated player from knowing something the higher-rated player may not know or be comfortable with. The Lower-rated player may know something the higher-rated player is not perfectly familiar with.

Its happened many times with me with these problems. I may see something easily on a Friday, then struggle the next Wednesday due a "pattern recognition gap" or vacuum

Hopefully, learning will fill that void or vacuum(s) which is a benefit of these problems

Happy Chess! :)

*****

Jan-08-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: I should like to note that I have, on one or two occasions, had more difficulty with Tuesday puzzles than with this Friday offering.

A greater difficulty, come to improving one's game, is foreseeing such opportunities in an actual game; even Rudolf Spielmann, by all accounts a fair combinative player (wink) who would have been a strong grandmaster had the title existed in his day, admitted that his great rival Alekhine was more proficient at creating such possibilities in his games.

Jan-08-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Jimfromprovidence: Me: "The problem is to ascertain why 51 h4+ Kxh4 52 Qd8+, below, does not seem to work for white while 51 h4+ Kxh4 52 Qf6+, does seem to work for white"

<stst> <In a rush, dont see the difference to Qd8+ esp. Black got g5, Q closer to what advantage...pl. research to convert "seem" to "surely"" (?)>

The difference is that 52 Qf6+ after 52...g5 53 Qxf5, below, stops numerous perpetual check threats. Two are ...Qh1+,...Qxe4+, or...Qh3+ but there are others as well.


click for larger view

If 52 Qd8+ white can then only ensure the perpetual check result as the best outcome.

Jan-08-16  King.Arthur.Brazil: Good! I found the combination directly: 51.Rxf5+ gxf5 52. Qg7+ There's no reply: if 52... Kf4 53.Qc7+ Kxe4 54.Qxh2 win the BQ, while 52... Kh4, 53. Qf6+ Kxh3, 54.Qxf5+ Kh4, 55. Qxh5#. I feel happy that I saw everything and would play it if it was my game. So, I'm not too old to "imagine things" on the board, without moving the pieces, only thinking...
Jan-08-16  CHESSTTCAMPS: White is up a bishop, but black threatens Qh1+ 52.Ke2 Qxe4+ winning. White can beat black to the punch with 51.Rxf5+! gxf5 (Kh4 52.Rxh5+ forces mate) 52.Qg7+ Kf4 (Kh4 53.Qf6#) 53.Qc7+ Kxe4 54.Qxh2 Rxd1+ 55.Ke2 and the ending (Q+3 pawns against R+3 pawns) should not trouble white.
Jan-08-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sally Simpson: Hi perfidious,

I always look at these things with a what would I have done view.

I see you too slipped the perpetual in your back pocket first. I always did. If I saw I had at the very least a perp then off I go and see what happens.

In this game I was going for the perpetual then the mate appeared.

G Chandler vs V Slaven, 1991

We are in good company. Botvinnik admitted that in his famous win v Capablanca he saw he had the perpetual first so dived in. Very honest of him.

Botvinnik vs Capablanca, 1938

Jan-08-16  CHESSTTCAMPS: Right line, but I hallucinated that 52... Kh4 53.Qf6+ was checkmate.
Jan-08-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Penguincw: Now even though I made a comment on this game earlier today, I still didn't try to solve it, so I'm going to do.

Too easy for a Friday puzzle: 51.Rxf5+ gxf5 52.Qg7+ Kh4 53.Qf6# 1-0. Or 51...Kh4 52.Qf6# 1-0.

Weird week...

Jump to page #    (enter # from 1 to 3)
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·  Later Kibitzing>
NOTE: You need to pick a username and password to post a reply. Getting your account takes less than a minute, is totally anonymous, and 100% free—plus, it entitles you to features otherwise unavailable. Pick your username now and join the chessgames community!
If you already have an account, you should login now.
Please observe our posting guidelines:
  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, profane, raunchy, or disgusting language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate or nonsense posts.
  3. No malicious personal attacks, including cyber stalking, systematic antagonism, or gratuitous name-calling of any member Iincludinfgall Admin and Owners or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. If you think someone is an idiot, then provide evidence that their reasoning is invalid and/or idiotic, instead of just calling them an idiot. It's a subtle but important distinction, even in political discussions.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No malicious posting of or linking to personal, private, and/or negative information (aka "doxing" or "doxxing") about any member, (including all Admin and Owners) or any of their family, friends, associates, or business interests. This includes all media: text, images, video, audio, or otherwise. Such actions will result in severe sanctions for any violators.
  6. NO TROLLING. Admin and Owners know it when they see it, and sanctions for any trolls will be significant.
  7. Any off-topic posts which distract from the primary topic of discussion are subject to removal.
  8. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by Moderators is expressly prohibited.
  9. The use of "sock puppet" accounts in an attempt to undermine any side of a debate—or to create a false impression of consensus or support—is prohibited.
  10. All decisions with respect to deleting posts, and any subsequent discipline, are final, and occur at the sole discretion of the Moderators, Admin, and Owners.
  11. Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.
Blow the Whistle See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a Moderator.

NOTE: Keep all discussion on the topic of this page. This forum is for this specific game and nothing else. If you want to discuss chess in general, or this site, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors. All Moderator actions taken are at the sole discretion of the Admin and Owners—who will strive to act fairly and consistently at all times.

This game is type: CLASSICAL. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
98_A07_King's Indian Attack
by whiteshark
FLAWLESSWIN64's KIA games
by FLAWLESSWIN64
51.? (January 8, 2016)
from Friday Puzzles, 2011-2017 by Phony Benoni
98_A07_King's Indian Attack
by rickcarnes
98_A07_King's Indian Attack
by Retarf
51.? (Friday, January 8)
from Puzzle of the Day 2016 by Phony Benoni
Trendy Opening Lines Quite Handy !! part 2
by FLAWLESSWIN64
000_-> Middlegames Opp col Bishops 2
by whiteshark


home | about | login | logout | F.A.Q. | your profile | preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | new kibitzing | chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | privacy notice | contact us


Copyright 2001-2019, Chessgames Services LLC