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Hikaru Nakamura vs Levon Aronian
Zurich Chess Challenge (Blitz) (2014) (blitz), Zurich SUI, rd 2, Jan-29
Queen's Gambit Declined: Modern. Knight Defense (D51)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

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Kibitzer's Corner
Jan-29-14  SirRuthless: Checkmate.
Jan-29-14  bobthebob: I know it is blitz, but it is still amusing and refreshing to see an actual checkmate.
Jan-30-14  Cheapo by the Dozen: Speielmann would have loved this game.
Jan-30-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  patzer2: The losing move was 31...Rxe3??, allowing 32. Rxf6! .

According to Frtiz 12, Black should have played 31...Qb7 = to .

Analysis by Fritz 12:

(0.25): 31...Qb7 32.Qh5 Nde4 33.Qg6 Rd2 34.Bd4 Ng5 35.Rg4 Nce6 36.h4 Nf8 37.Qf5 Nge6 38.Bc3 Rd5 39.Qf3 h5 40.Rc4 b5 41.axb5 (20/45 depth on a 2.1GHZ dual core processor).

Jan-30-14  RookFile: This is an amazing game by Nakamura.
Jan-30-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Check It Out: Naka's queen and bishop pair are raking those diagonals.

Shouldn't this be classified as a Trompowsky even though it transposes to a QGD?

Jan-30-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <CIO> Don't see why, really, as if the game had begun instead 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 Nbd7 5.e3, the same position is reached, and no-one would call that anything but a QGD.
Jan-30-14  haydn20: Gotta love them longrange Bishops.
Jan-30-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Check It Out: <perfidious> Sure, but I thought <mistakenly?) that the opening is classified after the earliest designation reached in a game, which in this case is 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5.
Jan-30-14  Shams: <Check It Out> <Sure, but I thought (mistakenly?) that the opening is classified after the earliest designation reached in a game, which in this case is 1.d4 Nf6 2.Bg5.>

Last night at the club, Morgan said to me, "you keep calling what I'm playing a Benoni, but I'm not convinced it is." I'll tell you my snarky response offline. (He was reaching the Benoni through a KID move order.)

My two cents: I wouldn't call the method you propose a mistake, though I do think it's more formalistic than useful. To call <1.Nf3 c5 2.e4> one thing and <1.e4 c5 2.Nf3> another seems to me a bit like having two different names for a dog, depending on whether it points north or south. :)

Chess openings are like libraries; there are various arguments to be made for different systems of classification. For me, though, I would ask what the purpose of classifying openings is in the first place-- and I think it should be, to facilitate a study of them. If you share this opinion than what choice do you have but to classify openings based on the name you would search for to study them in books or videos? And if you wanted to study this opening, you'd look to a QGD study material.

/Tired of seeing <1.Nf3> uselessly labeled the "Zuckertort Opening".

Jan-30-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <Shams....Tired of seeing <1.Nf3> uselessly labeled the "Zuckertort Opening".>

Same here. This is an object example: Gheorghiu vs Tal, 1971.

Had this begun 1.d4 f5 2.g3 Nf6 3.Bg2 d6 4.Nf3 c6, surely it would be classified a Dutch sideline, rather than A04.

Jan-31-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Check It Out: <Shams> I agree it's more useful to designate an opening as what it actually resembles in transposition. My dog always points north. :)

A large database such as this must have a formal logic applied to opening classification though, and I'm wondering what that is.

Jan-31-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  morfishine: <Check It Out> It may be "useful" to designate an opening by what it has transposed into, but the annotator really should avoid unnecessarily muddying the waters which could confuse the reader; For example, I recall GM Rohde Michael Rohde notating a long forgotten game with a post that went something like this: "What started out as a Modern, has transposed into a Catalan, then a Pirc and is now a Meran!" What use one could derive from that statement is hard to imagine

IMHO, its simpler and more accurate to simply label an opening for what it starts out as; for example, after 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3 a6 we have a Najdorf defense, with the key identifying move 5...a6. True, the game can be steered into Schevingen-type structures (or whatever), but the fact remains this is a Najdorf defense

FWIW: A government study found that 84% of all dogs point north when "going to the bathroom". Heaven knows how much money was spent finding that out or what practical use it has

*****

Jan-31-14  RookFile: Once there was an unfortunate student taking lessons from a teacher. The teacher showed the student this position, and asked him: What opening is this?


click for larger view

The poor student at first guessed the Caro-Kann, Botvinnik Attack:

1. e4 c6 2. d4 d5 3. exd5 cxd5 4. c4 dxc4 5. Bxc4 6. Nf6 7. Nc3 e6 7. Nf3 Be7 8. 0-0 0-0

But, was informed that he was wrong. Then, he tried the English opening:

1. c4 c5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. e3 e6 4. d4 cxd4 5. exd4 d5 6. Nc3 dxc4 7. Bxc4 Be7 8. 0-0 0-0

...and the teacher dismissed this as well.

Then, he proposed the French Defense:

1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. c4 c6 4. exd5 cxd5 5. Nf3 dxc4 6. Bxc4 Nf6 7. Nc3 Be7 8. 0-0 0-0

... but learned he was in error.

Inspired, he choose the Queen's Gambit Declined:

1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e3 dxc4 5. Bxc4 c5 6. Nf3 cxd4 7. exd4 Be7 8.0-0 0-0

When told this was wrong, the poor student sadly left, deciding to give up chess.

On his way out the door, the teacher said: "You were close! It's really the Queen's Gambit Accepted!"

1. d4 d5 2. c4 dxc4 3. e3 c5 4. Bxc4 cxd4 5. exd4 e6 6. Nf3 Nf6 7. Nc3 Be7 8. 0-0 0-0

Jan-31-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  morfishine: <RookFile> Thats hilarious!
Jan-31-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  Check It Out: <morfishine: its simpler and more accurate to simply label an opening for what it starts out as>

Do you agree then that this game should be labeled the Trompowsky?

And, do you happen to know how the chessgames.com algorithm for labeling an opening prioritizes for its classification?

<FWIW: A government study found that 84% of all dogs point north when "going to the bathroom". Heaven knows how much money was spent finding that out or what practical use it has>

I was going to ask if this was a true story but then I remembered that somebody will come up with some study if they can milk some government cash for it. Apparently it has to do with the earth's magnetic alignment... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCk... I'm sure another study is needed.

<RookFile> Good story! Really highlights the pitfalls of labeling openings.

Jan-31-14  RookFile: I just got a call from Magnus Carlsen. He says that it is really an sideline of the Slav Defense, which he was studying for his match with Anand: 1. d4 d5 2. c4 c6 3. Nc3 e6 4. e4 Nf6 etc. :)
Jan-31-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  morfishine: <Check It Out> IMO, this is a Trompowsky opening or Trompowsky Attack, which is characterized by 2.Bg5 after either 1...d5 or 1...Nf6. Keep in mind QGD and QGA openings cover a broad range of variations, much like the Sicilian. I like to think in terms of relevant squares, not labels

Yes, the study about the dogs is true, but I didn't bother to re-check the percentage, I just guestimated: Could be 93% or 89% or 78%

Jan-31-14
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: Amidst all this debate over nomenclature, an important thing to remember is that strategic themes from one opening can turn up in another.

Typical central pawn structure from the old main line of the Closed Spanish after White has cleared the centre with dxc5:


click for larger view

Now this, most commonly originating from the Classical King's Indian, where White has prematurely played dxe5:


click for larger view

Jan-31-14  Edeltalent: <RookFile: Once there was an unfortunate student taking lessons from a teacher. The teacher showed the student this position, and asked him: What opening is this?


click for larger view

...Caro-Kann, Botvinnik Attack...
...English opening...
...French Defense...
...Queen's Gambit Declined...
...Queen's Gambit Accepted...
...Slav Defense...>

Funny story! But this student really hasn't mastered the subtleties of opening play. How else could he forget about the Sicilian? ;-)

1.e4 c5 2.c3 d5 3.exd5 Qxd5 4.d4 Nf6 5.Nf3 cxd4 6.cxd4 e6 7.Nc3 Qd8 8.Bc4 Be7 9.0-0 0-0

(Possibly interesting sidenote: Very technically, the position is not the same in all these move-orders. The d4-pawn was the d-pawn in Caro-Kann, French and Slav, the e-pawn in English and Queen's Gambit, and the c-pawn in the Sicilian.)

Jan-31-14  chessguru1: Boom! Very nice finish! Naka is very good at this kinds of positions. I believe he can do this against carlsen's defensive chess if he is willing to work hard and strive for it.
Jan-31-14  parisattack: Very powerfully played by Nakamura! Like Tal, you don't want to give him a lot of open lines, piece play.
Jan-31-14  RookFile: <Edeltalent: Funny story! But this student really hasn't mastered the subtleties of opening play. How else could he forget about the Sicilian? ;-) >

Good work! :)

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