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The World vs Arkadij Naiditsch
"Suffering from c6-ness" (game of the day Dec-30-2014)
Chessgames Challenge (2014), chessgames.com, Jun-16
Spanish Game: Berlin Defense (C65)  ·  1-0

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< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 707 OF 707 ·  Later Kibitzing>
May-15-16  jindraz: I think Shipov really refers to much higher level than just master games. The predilection for the Berlin wall and Italian game at the highest level is something that I do not enjoy watching.

I did stop playing 1. e4 partly because of this, even though of course it is pretty irrelevant at my level. I suppose a car maker whose top model is the drabbest p.o.s. imaginable will lose customers even for their decent cheaper cars.

May-17-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <<jindraz> I think Shirov really refers to much higher level than just master games.>

That makes sense. So, since the ChessTempo database allows you to filter games in rating point increments of 100, I calculated a similar set of statistics for those games where both players were rated 2600+ and for those games where both players were rated 2700+. Here are the results.

<A. Both players rated 2600+>

Games starting with 1.e4: 26,056 games. White wins 30.4%, Black wins 18.5%, 51.1% draws. White winning percentage 56.0%

Games starting with 1.e4 e5: 10,314 games, 39.6% of games starting with 1.e4. White wins 28.1%, Black wins 16.9%, 55.0% draws. White winning percentage 55.6%

Games starting with 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc5 3.Bb5: 6,575 games, 25.2% of games starting with 1.e4. White wins 28.1%, Black wins 15.8%, 56.1% draws. White winning percentage 56.2%

Games starting with 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc5 3.Bb5 Nf6: 1,989 games, 7.6% of games starting with 1.e4. White wins 24.4%, Black wins 15.4%, 60.2% draws. White winning percentage 54.5%

<B. Both players rated 2700+>

Games starting with 1.e4: 5,614 games. White wins 28.7%, Black wins 18.2%, 53.1% draws. White winning percentage 55.3%

Games starting with 1.e4 e5: 2,610 games, 46.5% of games starting with 1.e4. White wins 25.9%, Black wins 15.4%, 58.7% draws. White winning percentage 55.3%

Games starting with 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc5 3.Bb5: 1,732 games, 30.9% of games starting with 1.e4. White wins 25.2%, Black wins 15.6%, 59.2% draws. White winning percentage 54.8%

Games starting with 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc5 3.Bb5 Nf6: 636 games, 11.3% of games starting with 1.e4. White wins 22.5%, Black wins 14.6%, 62.9% draws. White winning percentage 54.0%

So in cases where both players were rated 2600+, White's winning percentage after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc5 3.Bb5 Nf6 (54.5%) was only 1.5% less than all the games started with 1.e4 (56.0%). And in cases where both players were rated 2700+, White's winning percentage after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc5 3.Bb5 Nf6 (54.0%) was only 1.3% less than all the games started with 1.e4 (55.3%). I'll let everyone decide whether they think that a 1.3% to 1.5% decrease in White's winning % constitutes "an end to nothing less than the move 1.e4". And since in only 30.2% of Ruy Lopez games where both players were rated 2600+ and in only 36.7% of games where both players were rated 2700+ did the Black player choose the Berlin defense when they had the opportunity, I don’t think that Shirov's opinion was shared by these players.

May-22-16  Boomie: <AylerKupp>

Note that the quote was by Sergey Shipov, not Alexey Shirov.

This has been a public service announcement.

May-22-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: Thank you <Boomie>. I stand corrected. And I don't know why I said Shirov and not Shipov.
May-22-16  Boomie: <AylerKupp: I don't know why I said Shirov and not Shipov.>

Dyslexics untie!

You have nothing to chain but your losses!

Well, 'p' and 'r' are close enough to be switched.

May-22-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <Boomie> Yes, but mere distance is no impediment to my messing up. :-(
May-22-16  cormier: Sergey Karjakinand the defending world champion, Norwegian Grandmaster Magnus Carlsen, will meet in a battle of wits for the world chess crown in New York in November 2016.
Jun-24-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  cro777: The opening of this Chessgames Challenge (Anti-Berlin with 4.d3) is still very popular at the highest level. Here is a real masterpiece by Caruana.

Fabiano Caruana – Vladimir Kramnik

(Grand Chess Tour Rapid, Leuven 2016)

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. d3 Bc5 5. O-O d6 6. c3 O-O 7. Nbd2 Ne7 8. d4 exd4 9. cxd4 Bb6 10. Re1 Bg4


click for larger view

12.a4

Arkadij Naiditsch: "A very modern and theoretic move, although it is hard to understand why exactly 12.a4 is such a good move."

Here, the World Team opted for 12.a3. This move was the subject of intense discussion.

Caruana vs Kramnik, 2016

Jun-26-16  cormier: <cro777> i think the B has a better position with 12.a3
Jun-28-16  yskid: < cro777: The opening of this Chessgames Challenge (Anti-Berlin with 4.d3) is still very popular at the highest level.>I noticed that also, and I'm little surprised how often Whites trade Bb5Xc6 without provocation(a6)< Here is a real masterpiece by Caruana.

Fabiano Caruana – Vladimir Kramnik

(Grand Chess Tour Rapid, Leuven 2016)

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. d3 Bc5 5. O-O d6 6. c3 O-O 7. Nbd2 Ne7 8. d4 exd4 9. cxd4 Bb6 10. Re1 Bg4>11. h3 Bh5<

click for larger view

12.a4

Arkadij Naiditsch: "A very modern and theoretic move, although it is hard to understand why exactly 12.a4 is such a good move."> During our game I argued at some point (subsequent to 12.Qb3 I believe) that a4 helps Ra1 development and as such worked like a charm in Caruana-Kramnik game. Irrespectively what is the reasoning jury is still out regarding 12. a4. It should be noted that Caruana played it in "rapid" OTB and after 12...a6 13. Bf1 Nc6 offered pawn sac with 14.a5 giving Kramnik 5 choices : 14...Ba7 declining sac (what Kramnik Chose); ...Bxd4; ...Bxa5; ...Nxa5; ...Bxf3 15. Nxf3 Bxa5 the last seemingly favored by engines as per LiveBook on the server. Since smooth attack execution in a rapid OTB it is obvious that Caruana understood the position "inside out", however it is questionable if 14.a5 pawn sac offer would be played in the standard time control OTB or consultation/correspondence game.

Jul-03-16  MuzioFan: M Vachier-Lagrave vs Anand, 2016

Compare http://www.jepflast.com/chesstree/n..., where we considered <14..f6> as in Caruana vs A Giri, 2016 to be a more obvious choice.

Jul-30-16  cormier: here's a coor... game ... it may be of sme interest .... https://www.iccf.com/game?id=794200
Aug-02-16  yskid: <Jul-30-16
premium
member cormier: here's a coor... game ... it may be of sme interest .... https://www.iccf.com/game?id=794200>
This is first won game on ICCF 29 after many already drawn. I think this game is of interest for any KID - Mar Del Plata variation player. a4-b3-Ba3 plan is quite interesting. However, for the WTeam interest may be quite a challenge to give two pieces for the rook at move 24 expecting won endgame after further 20 moves. Even in the final position is IMO not very easy to prove forced win, what Black must have clarified prior to resigning. I ran Houdini inf. anal. just to depth 22 and evaluation was not "overly exuberant" for White and probably requires much deeper analysis to reach TBs. On the server is supplied Stockfish 7 anal. to d 19 with +1.25 only.
Mar-18-17  morfishine: <peterfritz> Any idea what happened to <DCGentle>?

*****

May-10-17  Bigfoot713: There's this very clever-looking pawn sacrifice 24...b5 when after 25.Bxb5 Bb6 (vacating f2 square for the rook in case of g5 and stuff like that), e5 doesn't obviously work and anything else that white does will mean king gets to blockade the pawn. But of course engines refute the sacrifice with the move Rd1 and taking back with the bishop means you just have a ridiculous pawn on b5. Still better than the game continuation because of the free f2 square.
Jul-23-17  MuzioFan: <Bigfoot713>: Interesting! It seems we do not have a refutation posted in our analysis from back then. However white can probably find a win after refuting this pawn sacrifice, for example after <24..b5 25.Rd1 Rxd1 26.Bxd1 Bd6 27.e6 Kf8 28.Bg4 c5(!) 29. Bxf5 gxf5 30.Rh4> we get the position


click for larger view

Here white seems to be winning, my engine suggests <30..cxb4 31.Rxb4 a6 32.Rh4 Ke7 33.Rxh7 Bd4 34.b3> with an eval of over +1.00.

The team was expecting the move <24..Rd4>, going further down the <Hocus Pocus line>.

Sep-03-17  diamondchess: This didn't turn out to be a good game for Naiditsch
Jan-07-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  Ron: I plugged in the position after Black's 11th moves, and my Stockfish 7 says play Qb3 with an eval of 0.00.
May-11-18  yskid: 12.a3 line from this game played in a correspondence championship https://www.iccf.com/game?id=948253
Aug-02-18  1d410: Wow the Caruana-Kramnik game with our opening is cool!
Jun-26-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  OhioChessFan: Pushing 6 years later and I still simply can't believe how bad a decision the pun was...
Mar-25-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  thegoodanarchist: < OhioChessFan: Pushing 6 years later and I still simply can't believe how bad a decision the pun was...>

You're not over it yet?

Apr-04-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  Willber G: I think of <OCF> every time I polish my Caissar for that pun. ;)

Also:

The World vs Naiditsch, 2014 (kibitz #14505)

The World vs Naiditsch, 2014 (kibitz #14550)

Sep-22-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  Check It Out: <Willber>

<very good> research!

A chain of games with this opening led me back to our team's great victory over Naiditsch.

Sep-22-21
Premium Chessgames Member
  Dionysius1: Lovely pun. Worth bringing up again.
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