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| Sep-05-14 | | SuperPatzer77: Of course, it's a clear draw because of a Vančura position. Well-played game by Aronian. |
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| Sep-05-14 | | JASAHA: I would like to see a computer analysis of this ending. I have a feeling that
the 3 p advantage could have been winning. Of course traditional theory points to
a draw but computers are not traditional :) |
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| Sep-05-14 | | Marmot PFL: The critical thing is the activity of black's rook. As Kinghunt, Finegold and others said 46 Kc2 stops Rb3 and black is in zug. Carlsen was upset to miss that. |
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| Sep-05-14 | | bobthebob: very disrespectful for Magnus to play on when he knew what every Russian schoolboy knows, it was a draw. Did he think Aronian was not as knowledgeable as a Russian school boy? Shameful for the WC to act like this. |
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| Sep-05-14 | | SugarDom: This is a win for white in gladiator chess, as the white king will reach the 8th rank sooner than black. |
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| Sep-05-14 | | bobthebob: Surprising that Carlsen didn't play on in the final positioning with the hope that he didn't think Aronian knew it was a draw and maybe he would flag. |
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Sep-05-14
 | | MissScarlett: < Tarjei J. Svensen @TarjeiJS · 2h #SinqCup Carlsen completely winning now, his 22nd consecutive game vs Aronian without a loss. (via @Gegga1)> Not quite; I think it's 23 games: +6 =17, and the gap seems wider than ever. I suppose we have to be grateful to Fabi that Magnus now has a serious challenger. |
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| Sep-05-14 | | csmath: Magnus played well but missed the win with 46. h6? which is a mistake in move order. If he had played 46. Kc2 which is actually more natural move he would have won the game. Not simple but the win was there and it was not so hard after that. 46. Kc2 would have been played by much smaller player than Magnus but somehow he missed that. This is one of those moments where everything you build over time goes up in smoke on one wrong move. Makes you want to hit the wall. Aronian must feel elated in the end as the game was a slow torture for him throughout while he was more or less in stir all of the time. |
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| Sep-05-14 | | AlexandraThess: Such a weak player that Carlson punk. Can't even win a basic rook endgame.... |
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| Sep-05-14 | | csmath: Very lucky escape for Aronian, it took just one wrong move and the move that is really quite ordinary but somehow Magnus blew it. |
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| Sep-05-14 | | AlexandraThess: Ahahahaha, If Smyslov was alive to see this he would turn in his grave. Such a shame!!! |
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| Sep-05-14 | | Jim Bartle: First time I've ever watched rook vs. rook and three rook pawns. |
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| Sep-05-14 | | visayanbraindoctor: The Black rook gives stays laterally and keeps checking. The Black King stays in the vicinity of the g7 square, guarding aginst the advance of the h pawn while not allowing the White rook to check it on the 8th rank which gains a tempo for White to queen the a pawn. Notice that Aronian immediately moved his rook laterally with the Rb3 and Rb5 maneuver when Carlsen allowed him to, which he could have prevented by 46. Kc2. 18. Qc5 exchanges Queens, simplifying into a typical Carlsen endgame grind. Carlsen went back to his his tried and tested positional style in this game. It worked out just fine, but he got careless in the Rook endgame. I can already hear grumpy old Korchnoi, the Rook endgame master par excellence, muttering his complaints about the new generation's knowledge of rook endgames if he saw this game. |
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| Sep-05-14 | | AlexandraThess: AlexandraThess: <bobthebob: very disrespectful for Magnus to play on when he knew what every Russian schoolboy knows, it was a draw. Did he think Aronian was not as knowledgeable as a Russian school boy? Shameful for the WC to act like this.>
Yes, indeed. Karlson's been a shame for chess ever since he luckily became WC. |
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| Sep-05-14 | | Eric Farley: Carlsen is no Rubinstein for sure.
And Caruana is no Capablanca. |
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| Sep-05-14 | | Mr. Bojangles: OMG draw??? How did Aronian survive this? I left cos I believed Aronian would soon resign. Kudos to him for asking the endgame questions which Carlsen was unable to answer. Carlsen the end game wizard won't sleep well tonight. |
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| Sep-05-14 | | visayanbraindoctor: <Mr. Bojangles: OMG draw??? How did Aronian survive this?> See my post above. Apparently Aronian know he had to transfer his rook to a laterally attacking position. Carlsen either did not know or just forgot about the theory. Korchnoi would do Aronian's maneuver because he knows rook endgame theory. Capablanca would do it even without knowing theory because he had an unsurpassed feel for rook endgames. (I have replayed a Capablanca game with Kostic in which Capa demonstrated how to win the rook pawn plus bishop pawn Rook endgame perfectly, even though the theory for it did not exist at that time.) Rook endgames are a class by themselves. A chess player may be super good in other types of endgames but may never get a feel for Rook endgames. In that case, he just has to study theory. |
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| Sep-06-14 | | Petrosianic: <Mr. Bojangles>: <OMG draw??? How did Aronian survive this?> Whatever made you think it was an easy win in the first place? |
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| Sep-06-14 | | Mr. Bojangles: <Korchnoi would do Aronian's maneuver because he knows rook endgame theory. Capablanca would do it even without knowing theory because he had an unsurpassed feel for rook endgames. (I have replayed a Capablanca game with Kostic in which Capa demonstrated how to win the rook pawn plus bishop pawn Rook endgame perfectly, even though the theory for it did not exist at that time.) Rook endgames are a class by themselves. A chess player may be super good in other types of endgames but may never get a feel for Rook endgames. In that case, he just has to study theory.> Thx for the informative insight VBD, I have lost many rook endgames myself where I had huge advantage. I just can't get my head round it. |
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| Sep-06-14 | | Marmot PFL: <<Korchnoi would do Aronian's maneuver because he knows rook endgame theory. Capablanca would do it even without knowing theory because he had an unsurpassed feel for rook endgames. (I have replayed a Capablanca game with Kostic in which Capa demonstrated how to win the rook pawn plus bishop pawn Rook endgame perfectly, even though the theory for it did not exist at that time.)> Remember that Korchnoi and Capa had the advantage of adjourning a game, sometimes even twice, and then finishing it after resting and thoroughly analyzing to find the correct method (usually with help from other top players). This makes an enormous difference. |
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| Sep-06-14 | | JASAHA: Can someone post the winning line from 46. If white plays kc2 |
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| Sep-06-14 | | cro777: <JASAHA> <Winning line from 46.Kc2> Position after 45...Kh7
click for larger view46.Kc2 The idea behind this move is to restrict Black's rook from getting to the fifth rank to hold. <kwid> analysed this line elswhere. Here is his main line: 46. Kc2 Kg7 47. h4 Kh7 48. h6 (Black is in Zugzwang) Kh8 49. Ra7 Kg8 50. h5 Kh8 51. a6 (Black is again in zugzwang) Ra5 (or any other rook move) 52. Kxc3
click for larger viewThis is a theoretically won position (White mates in 29 moves). |
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| Sep-06-14 | | cro777: After 46.h6? Black was able to place his rook on the fifth rank. 46.h6 Rb3 47.Kc2 Rb5 48.Kxc3
click for larger viewThis is a theoretical draw.
Excellent play by both players after 46...Rb3. |
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Nov-01-14
| | MissScarlett: <Such a weak player. That Carlsen punk can't even win a basic endgame.> https://twitter.com/TarjeiJS/status... |
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Sep-22-17
 | | g15713: Position after 45...Kh7
click for larger viewKarsten Muller and Yakov Konoval in their illustrious 2016 chess book, Understanding Rook Endgames, verified that by playing 46. Kc2 would have won - see page 30 diagram 2.11 <"46 ♔c2! stops the regrouping of Black's rook and wins; e.g., 46...♔g7 47 h6+ ♔h7 48 h4 ♔h8 49 ♖a7 ♔g8 50 a6 ♔h8 51 h5 (Black is in zugzwang and either loses the c- pawn or must allow the activation of White's rook) 51...♔g8 52 ♖g7+ ♔h8 53 a7 ♖a2+ 54 ♔b3 ♖b2+ 55 ♔a3+-."> Note: that 54. Kb1 c2+ 55. Kxa7 c1(Q) 56. a8(Q)+ also wins |
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