< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
|Aug-17-15|| ||jith1207: I was wondering last week that <DiagonAlley> did not post for a while. These (Along with many others) are some signature posters which make this site relaxing and fun.|
|Aug-17-15|| ||cocker: Hardest Monday for a long time|
|Aug-17-15|| ||cocker: Black missed a mate in 2 beginning with 28 ... c3+.|
|Aug-17-15|| ||Nick46: Agreed (with <jith1207>), <diagonalley> has a particularly soothing image / face.|
|Aug-17-15|| ||newzild: <cocker>
I concur with both of your comments.
|Aug-17-15|| ||Once: That's odd - I didn't even look at 29... Rc2+.
We have a raging king hunt going on, so the first order of business has to be to bring more troops to the attack. The Ra2 is doing a great job where he is, so the most promising move is 29...R8a3+. Adding another attacker, driving the black king up the board and keeping the rooks connected.
Okay, admittedly it leaves the Nb4 en prise, but surely that's not an issue when we have two rooks in the hunt.
After 29...R8a3, the white king can run to b4 or d4:
30. Kxb4 Rb3#
30. Kd4 Nc6# or Nc2#
It's where luck plays a part in chess. If 29...Rc2+ appealed to you first you might spend a long time trying to make it work. Fritzie says that it does win, but it takes a while.
On the other hand, life is a lot easier if your eye lit on 29...R8a3+. Then you don't even glance at the complications of 29...Rc2+
That's where I take issue with Kotov. He says that we should pick the most promising line and then examine it completely. Only then should we look at our second most promising line.
I am not so sure. In real life, I suspect that most of us flit from variation to variation. We might start analysing 29...Rc2+, but then realise that it isn't the quick forced mate that the position seems to call for. That might prompt us to put 29...Rc2+ down and look for alternatives. Only if those alternatives fail would we come back to 29...Rc2+ and see if we can make it work.
But persisting with 29...Rc2+ to the bitter end when there is a quicker mate? That doesn't sound like a sensible use of time. Flit, flit like butterflies my friends!
|Aug-17-15|| ||saturn2: Remark to the game:
White's 13b3 allowed black to open the a file against the castled king and that was the beginning of the end.
|Aug-17-15|| ||jith1207: Agreed <Once>. But I think 29..R8a3 worked easily because White moved his Bishop just then blocking his king's only escape route, as King moving to 31.Kc5 after taking on 30.Kb4 would counter the double rook attacks. With Black having a LSB, White King might have survived. Not sure if that would have changed the outcome of the game, but guess that make checkmating easy.|
As to answer your question, At least for me, my basic instinct was not to lose the knight while trying to checkmate and thus analyzed Rc2+ first. But as you said when that took a while, I came back to analyze the move which seemed risky but actually led to the solution today.
|Aug-17-15|| ||morfishine: <Once> In a way, thats the issue: being able to pick the most promising line in the first place|
|Aug-17-15|| ||zb2cr: 29. R8a3+ does it. If White takes on b4, 30. ... Rb3#. If White tries 30. Kd4, Nc6#.|
|Aug-17-15|| ||patzer2: <Once: That's odd - I didn't even look at 29... Rc2+.> Maybe it's a matter of perspective. When I flip the board and play it from the Black side, the Rook closest to me jumps out and I immediately see 29...R8a3+!|
Initially, I tried to solve it from the White side and kept wanting to move the Rook closest to me (i.e. 29...Rc2+).
However, even the winner of this game had the same problem with passing up a simple win for a more complicated one.
As <coker> notes <Black missed a mate in 2 beginning with 28 ... c3+.> Fritz indicates that with the game move, 28...Ra2+, White can force Black to stretch it out to mate-in-eight (e.g. 28...Ra2+ 29. Kc1 Rc2+ 30. Kb1 c3 31. Rh2 Rxh2 32. Bg2 Rxg2 33. Bf2 Rxf2 34. h5 Rb2+ 35. Kc1 Ra1#).
P.S.: Wonder if there's a life lesson there about considering distant opportunities and not just the closest, most available ones.
|Aug-17-15|| ||Nostrils: An adventuresome game for the Black King's Knight, picking up the white queen on the kings side, then manoeuvring to the queens side to sacrifice himself for the kill.|
|Aug-17-15|| ||starry2013: R8a3+ 2.Kxb4 Rb3#
R8a3+ 2.Kd4 Nc2#
This took me longer than a normal Monday. Logically you would move the higher rook though you could try the other one (unsuccessfully I expect). I did see Nc2 eventually. And of course the d5 pawn is important is stopping the king escaping, I didn't see that straight away. This is why d4 is a useless sacrifice, among other reasons I expect.
|Aug-17-15|| ||saturn2: Interesting is that a player of 2200 elo did not give up immediatly after 29...R8a3 but still made the move 30. Kxb4|
|Aug-17-15|| ||BOSTER: <MindCtrol9: the King ran away>.
No. 29.Rc2+ Kd4 30.Nc6+ Ke3 31.R8a3+ Bd3
|Aug-17-15|| ||BOSTER: I am wrong.|
|Aug-17-15|| ||lost in space: I love Mondays!
A. 29...Kxb4 30. Rb3 mate
B. 29...Kd4 30. Nc2 mate
|Aug-17-15|| ||BOSTER: < dfcx:31...R8a3>.
Common visualization error-a" retained image".
|Aug-17-15|| ||kevin86: The rook check at a3 give white a choice at which piece will mate him.|
29...♖8a3+ 30 ♔xb4 ♖b3# or 30 ♔d4 ♘c2 or c6#
|Aug-17-15|| ||consul: If I had to solve the puzzle by choosing the quickest mate, I'd have failed for today: I went for
29 .. ♖c2, when White can prolong the agony by playing 30. ♔d4 .. ♘c6; 31. ♔e3 .. ♖a3; 32. ♗d3. After all, what I've seen is not a forced mate as in the real game. :-/|
|Aug-17-15|| ||BOSTER: After 29...Rc2+ 30.Kd4 Nc6+ 31.Ke3 R8a2, and game is over.|
|Aug-17-15|| ||saturn2: If one does not want to bother one's mind with combinations there is another quick plan to win:
After..29 Rc2 30..Nc6+ ...31 b5-b4 the three passed b,c,d pawns will decide quickly.|
|Aug-17-15|| ||Nullifidian: 29... ♖8a3+ 30. ♔xb4 ♖b3#|
|Aug-17-15|| ||mikrohaus: I always look at forcing moves first, whether OTB or in puzzles.|
Checks are paramount for investigation, because the opponent often has limited or only 1 response. The same could be said for attacks on the Q or loose pieces or pawns, but the defense might have much more leeway in these cases.
This often leads me to investigate positions which lead up to forcing moves that don't work at the moment, but will if my dear opponent cooperates.
Some of my best combinations -- and also Alekhine's, Fischer's, etc. -- come from the most harmless looking positions, but with a sting (forcing sequence) at the end, such as a double/family check even with all the attackers en prise.
Sometimes all you have to do is let your opponent go wrong without harming your position setting up the "sting at the end".
Example: NN vs. Me 1. e4 e6 2. Bc4 Nf6 3. e5 Ng8 4. Nf3 d5 5. Bb3 c5 6. d4 Bd7 7. a3 Nc6 8.dxc5 Bxc5 9. O-O Qc7 10. Re1 Nge7 11. Qd2 Ng6 12. c4 dxc4 13. Bxc4 O-O-O 14. Nc3 Ncxe5 15. Nxe5 Nxe5 16. Bb5?? After the semi-forced 16...Bxb5 17.Nxb5 Rxd2 18.Nxc7, I didn't play the (probably) losing 18...Kxc7 White thought forced, but the winning 18...Rxf2, creating a discovered check (the sting!) and no adequate response available to White (e.g. 19.Rxe5 Rf5+, keeping at least a +2 pawn ending advantage.) He was so shocked, he lost his head and played 19.Kh1 Kxc7 20. Rxe5 Rf1#
|Aug-17-15|| ||floydAkash: R8a3+ Kd4 Nc2#|
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