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Magnus Carlsen vs Hikaru Nakamura
Sinquefield Cup (2015), Saint Louis, MO USA, rd 8, Aug-31
Queen's Gambit Declined: Harrwitz Attack. Main Line Old Main Line (D37)  ·  1/2-1/2

ANALYSIS [x]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 6 OF 6 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Sep-01-15  paavoh: <Anyone think chess could be considered an "athletic event?"> Why not? The brain is an integral part of the human body, and it burns an astonishing amount of energy. Do you feel exhausted after a weekend tournament, barring any non-chess excuses? So, my answer is an emphatic YES.

The observation that more people are concerned about their physical appearance & performance and improvement thereof than that of the intellect speaks volumes of our times...

Sep-01-15  1971: Magnus outcalculated twice in this game. First time on the queenside, when Black escaped the squeeze and ended up with the passed a pawn and the second time in the endgame when he allowed the forced draw sequence.
Sep-01-15  Marmot PFL: This is a good result for Nakamura heading into the last round. He never gave up and put up a resourceful defense in a bad position. A good end game player can save a lot of points this way.

On the other hand his opening preparation was inferior and he didn't play the middle game well (too passive, as he usually plays against Carlsen). I doubt Nakamura will ever be a Petrosian or Karpov type defender so why play these positions just hoping for a draw?

Sep-01-15  Absentee: <paavoh: <Anyone think chess could be considered an "athletic event?"> Why not? The brain is an integral part of the human body>

So is your stomach. Do you consider stuffing your face an athletic activity?

Sep-01-15  jhelix70: <<caissafan1963: Name a sport that is played on a board.>>

Shuffleboard!

Sep-01-15  Ulhumbrus: If Black gets a terrible game after 21...Ba4 because he has to follow it with ...b5 this suggests that the bishop had better go elsewhere earlier or that Black had better save some time earlier eg 18...Bb7
Sep-01-15  Marmot PFL: 21...Ba4 was Nakamura's improvement on a previous game with 21...Re8 but still looks inadequate. 21... Be6 22 Bxa8 Bxb3 23 Bf3 f5 24 Rb1 Bc4 going for trades might get black a draw after more suffering. I would play something else, maybe Grunfeld. Both Sinquefeld games where it was played black drew rather easily.
Sep-01-15  Petrosianic: <Sally Simpson>: <Let's say if there was a way to win it Carlsen would have found it.>

How can you be sure, when he missed almost certain wins earlier in the game?

This was one of the most remarkable games I've seen, not for the game itself, but for the patzer observers on chess24.

The evals kept going up and down for the early part of the ending. Anyone with any sense would have learned not to trust them (if they didn't already know). I kept telling them don't believe in a win if you can't see it. I actually thought White might have one based on holding on the kingside, winning the a pawn then bringing the King back.

The evals around this time were between 1.5 and 1.9, and on that basis, half the people there believed in a win they couldn't see. When Naka did lose the a pawn but managed to exchange off the f pawns, I was pretty sure he was now going to hold the game, but at that time, the eval shot up to 3.1.

So, their faith was stronger than ever at first, but after an hour and a half of piece shuffling, even the dullest were starting to suspect that it might not be true, even though the eval STILL read 3.1.

But there was still one holdout. Finally, as it got closer to the 50 move rule, the eval suddenly dropped from 3.1 to about .67, and the last engine slave in the room shouted "Carlsen blundered!" Classic.

Sep-01-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <<Karne> I will not argue against the notion of chess being an art, but I must say that everybody likes to brand their respective fields or an ardent hobby as 'art'>

My favorite example along these lines: "If it's fuzzy, it's art. If it's in focus, it's pornography."

Sep-01-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <<ajile> Nice link and wanted to give you credit for finding it.>

Obviously it was not me; it was Google who found it. I was just the spacebar master.

Sep-01-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <<Absentee> So is your stomach. Do you consider stuffing your face an athletic activity?>

What would you call the following: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jae...?

Sep-01-15  Absentee: <AylerKupp: What would you call the following: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jae...?>

"Murica".

Sep-01-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  AylerKupp: <<Petrosianic> But there was still one holdout. Finally, as it got closer to the 50 move rule, the eval suddenly dropped from 3.1 to about .67, and the last engine slave in the room shouted "Carlsen blundered!" Classic.>

Yes, that was a classic. It still makes me wonder why (a) chess24 only allows Stockfish to run for what looks like a second or less and doesn't let it get to search depths higher than the high 10s or low 20s and (b) people attach great significance to this kind of evaluation. But there are many out there that don't have a clue how chess engines work and either attach too much significance to their evaluations or not enough. It's an uphill climb to try to educate them.

Sep-02-15  rickycota: Magnus Had to keep his rook on the board with the 2 bishops. Move 39.Be3 was the draw. 39.Ba4 would have give him a lot more to play with and win. Even the best miss something every once in a while. Still rooting for Chucky!
Sep-02-15  choosea: > <<caissafan1963: Name a sport that is played on a board.>>

Shuffleboard!

> SKETES ??

Sep-02-15  ajile: <Absentee: <paavoh: <Anyone think chess could be considered an "athletic event?"> Why not? The brain is an integral part of the human body> So is your stomach. Do you consider stuffing your face an athletic activity?>

lol

/thread

Sep-02-15  schweigzwang: <It still makes me wonder why (a) chess24 only allows Stockfish to run for what looks like a second or less>

$$$$

can't hardly blame them

Sep-02-15  belgradegambit: <Absentee: <paavoh: <Anyone think chess could be considered an "athletic event?"> Why not? The brain is an integral part of the human body> So is your stomach. Do you consider stuffing your face an athletic activity?>

lol

/thread

Have none of you heard of the sport of competitive eating? http://espn.go.com/page2/s/caple/02...

Sep-02-15  bobthebob: <Have none of you heard of the sport of competitive eating?>

That isn't a sport any more than an activity where people compete to see who can burp the loudest.

Sep-02-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <schweigzwang: <It still makes me wonder why (a) chess24 only allows Stockfish to run for what looks like a second or less> $$$$

can't hardly blame them>

If I was running a live chess website I would have all the machine evaluations doubled automatically so the engine slaves would yell "BLUNDER" or "X is toast!" twice as often.

Sep-03-15  schweigzwang: Maybe they've already done that. :)
Sep-03-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Everett: <paavoh: <Anyone think chess could be considered an "athletic event?"> Why not? The brain is an integral part of the human body, and it burns an astonishing amount of energy. Do you feel exhausted after a weekend tournament, barring any non-chess excuses? So, my answer is an emphatic YES.

The observation that more people are concerned about their physical appearance & performance and improvement thereof than that of the intellect speaks volumes of our times...>

Rather, your focus on the intellect is a terrible, negative reflection on our time. To actually think that chess playing is an athletic event is evidence how everyone is so focused on the brain, as if the body doesn't matter. Like one can have a healthy heart, have coordination, catch a ball, understand the dynamics and intuition of a field sport, change directions quickly without tripping over yourself, run away from danger, move quickly to save a loved one from danger, etc... simply by sitting down and moving a piece to c4.

It all matters, and athletic events use it all, not just the brain, and certainly use the body more than an a$$-sitting chess player.

Calling chess players athletes is just a joke. The only way it works is if you change the definition of "athletic" into something completely unrecognizable.

A sport yes, a competition sure, something worthy of our attention, absolutely. Athletic? No.

I hope everyone on this site is moving in some way, that you each have found something that gets your body and brain busy.

Sep-03-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  thegoodanarchist: <Everett> It sounds like you've never competed seriously in tournament chess.

If you had, you would know first-hand how critical physical fitness is to playing at your best level.

Or, you could learn from the example of others. You could study the greats of the past 50 years and know that they incorporate physical training in their routines in order to play better.

Sep-03-15  Howard: Jeez, all this "discussion" about whether chess is a sport or not. Couldn't all this have been discussed elsewhere?

At any rate, did either player miss a win at any point? In wading through all these comments, no one seems to have answered that question.

Sep-03-15
Premium Chessgames Member
  Everett: <Sep-03-15 thegoodanarchist: <Everett> It sounds like you've never competed seriously in tournament chess.>

I have competed in tournament chess, and wrestling tournaments, and two-a-day soccer tournaments, and the practice time leading up to each of these things.

In my experience, the thing that makes chess so stressful, in an unnatural way, is that the brain is under duress while the body does absolutely nothing. I think it is that exact split between the body and mind that is tough. It is unnatural, likely less healthy, to have this split.

And I do know from Lasker to Botvinnik on up, the best didn't ignore the body. But exercise and athletics are two different things. And I certainly did not become more athletic by participating in chess tournaments.

Athletes can play chess, chess-players can be athletic, yet chess is not athletic as part of its nature. Again, not saying it's not tough, and in a way it's tougher/stranger as I stated above.

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