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Sergey Karjakin vs Magnus Carlsen
Carlsen - Karjakin World Championship Match (2016), New York, NY USA, rd 6, Nov-18
Spanish Game: Closed Variations (C84)  ·  1/2-1/2

ANALYSIS [x]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 13 OF 13 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Nov-18-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Pedro Fernandez: A strange claiming by <mistermac>, but I don't know how to refute him. It seems that his declaration is correct!
Nov-18-16  activechess55: <cro777:> I agree. 17. Neg5 returns the pawn and leads to forced drawn position. Another reply, at this stage, retains a pawn for white. Black gets a slight initiative. That is similar to Marshall gambit.

Karjakin wasted his white pieces in this game.

Nov-18-16  King Radio: Too bad the internet, and its attendant chess experts, weren't around for the Capa - Alekhine match...the astute and witty 'horrible, boring match' and 'Capadrawnka' comments would have added immensely to the event.

On the other hand, without their super strong chess engines by their sides, most people wouldn't even know a good move from a bad one.

Nov-18-16  Helloween: I would have seriously considered 23...Qxf4. If he was already leading by a couple of points in the match, he probably would have whipped that out.
Nov-19-16  activechess55: This gambit looks too good for black. He gets even more initiative than normal Marshall gambit since d7-d5 push is achieved in one move rather than two.

What's improvement for white then? Perhaps, 9.c3 instead of 9.d3.

Nov-19-16  mrbasso: Ruy Lopez with 8.h3 and 9.d3 ist quite harmless generally. At this level everyone is prepared. I would be very surprised if Karjakin wins a game with this.
Nov-19-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: <Joseph Blackcape: <abstract: Someone has to remind Sergey that he won't win the title with draws only> He actually can do that. If he draws all 12 games, then draws all rapid and blitz tie-breakers and then gets black in the Armageddon game and draws, he will wins.>

This is quite true and very possible. There is an element of chance but the Armaggeddon is almost pure chance...

But the probabilities of Karjakin (or Carlsen) winning or losing a game in the next six, as long as Karjakin then digs in, he even avoids the Armageddon nightmare. It would be like Kramnik-Kasparov. It would be by 1 point.

It is almost as if the match is too short. 24 games in the good old days so split the difference and make it 18 or perhaps 20. This means it is unlikely. Mind you if two players of this calibre keep cool they can almost force draws from move one...However there are still many random factors.

Nov-19-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Open Defence: < cro777: GM Robert Hess' thoughts on 17.Ned2 instead of 17.Neg5.> thanks for that in that line after 17.Ned2 Bf6 18.Be5 Re8 I was thinking of 19.Bc3


click for larger view

Not sure what the engines think of it, but the idea was to exchange of one of Black's best minor pieces and after say 19...Qd6 20.Bxf6 Qxf6 21.Rb1

White should be able to regroup his Knights to the K side

Nov-19-16  Ulhumbrus: One question is whether at the end White can start an attack by arranging the advance g4. Suppose Black's queen is on d7, White's queen is on e5 and White's bishop is on c3. Then on g4 and Kf4 the capture ...f5xg4 frees White's f pawn to advance after h3xg4. Perhaps Karjakin did not find a way to arrange the advance g4.
Nov-19-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: According to my Komodo computer the entire game was "book". I think both players knew all the moves to the end because of preparation but I think that K was picking up from the Fritz (where I had the game and moves). But I cant find a game that goes with all the moves the same. It might be on chess 365 or whatever it is.
Nov-19-16  rogge: <Richard Taylor: According to my Komodo computer the entire game was "book". I think both players knew all the moves to the end because of preparation but I think that K was picking up from the Fritz (where I had the game and moves). But I cant find a game that goes with all the moves the same. It might be on chess 365 or whatever it is.>

Yeah, right. All book, but you can't find a game.

14...c5 was a new move (according to chess24, among others).

Nov-19-16  alkabiades: i think there must be a prohibition to the parties to play 1.e4 e5. while they play shuch moves, you can be sure this game is going to be a dead draw.
Nov-19-16  Whitehat1963: Despite all the draws, this has been a good match so far. Those need reminders should go play over the Kramnik-Leko parade of miniature draws over the years, including during their championship match.
Nov-19-16  dernier thylacine: Do you remember the score of the Petrossian-Kortchnoï match in 1971? It was a nice and thrilling fight, and people who "think this one is boring should better use their time on games they understand, like first-person shooter video games" (awfulhangover dixit)... True that it should last twelve, not only ten games...
Nov-19-16
Premium Chessgames Member
  cro777: <Open Defence: After 17.Ned2 (instead of 17.Neg5) Bf6 18.Be5 Re8 I was thinking of 19.Bc3. The idea was to exchange one of Black's best minor pieces and after say 19...Qd6 20.Bxf6 Qxf6 21.Rb1 White should be able to regroup his Knights to the K side.>

This line looks rather passive, but with correct mutual play it also leads to a draw.


click for larger view

17. Ned2 Bf6 18. Be5 Re8 19. Bc3 Qd6 20. Bxf6 Qxf6 21. Rb1 Qg6 22. Nf1


click for larger view

A possible continuation:

22...Nxc2 23. Rxe8+ Rxe8 24. Nh4 Qf6 25. Qxc2 Qxh4 26. Qxc5 f4 27.Qc7 Ba8 28.f3 29.Kf2 Bd5 30.Nd2 Re3 31.Ne4 Bxe4 32.Qc8+ Kf7 33.dxe4 Qg3+ 34.Kf1


click for larger view

34...Rxf3+ 35.gxf3 Qxf3+ 36.Kg1 Qg3+ 37.Kh1 Qf3+ 38.Kg1 Draw

Nov-19-16  ajile: <Absentee: <ajile: I'm trying to be optimistic about this match but so far it's a rather dull display of safe chess.> As opposed to what? What does non-dull unsafe chess look like? A piece sacrifice right out of the opening? A gambit line pensioned off in 1875? Seriously, what is it exactly that you gentlemen would like to see in a game?>

How about an opening besides the Ruy Lopez? Even a KID would be better than these games. And heaven forbid we would ever see anything HORRIFIC like a Benoni or Dutch.

Nov-19-16  ajile: <awfulhangover: Those who thinks this fight is boring should use their time on games they understand, like first-person shooter video games.>

You mean like tf2?

lol! Actually now you are making me want to play again.

Nov-19-16  mistreaver: Game six analysis, featuring sucker punching Giri and philosophical arguments about comformity, can be found on the link here :) http://www.chessentials.com/carlsen...
Nov-19-16  dunkenchess: He who says chess is boring does not play chess.
Nov-19-16  cormier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZF... game 6 k - c
Nov-20-16  flapjack: I was hoping Wesley So made the finals. He struck me as a more daring & renegade opponent for Magnus...
Nov-20-16  iking: for the time being .. i prefer Caruana, he has a good record head to head against Magnus ..but Karjakin is a worthy opponent ... see the result.
Nov-20-16  dernier thylacine: I have no personal preference for one of the two players; I respect both of them; but I assume that until now this match (not chess in general of course)is boring, even the techinique showed by the two champions is accurate; but there is not enough fighting spirit; I guess a match between Carlsen and So, Caruana or one of the top chinese players (Ding Liren for instance) would habe been more lively... Let's hope the secund half of the match will show these two guys take more risks in order to win...
Nov-20-16  dernier thylacine: Sorry about the spelling mistakes ("Second", not "secund", and so...) But I guess bad english is still better than good french, here, lol...
Nov-24-16  Ayaend: <dernier thylacine> Moi j'suis d'accord avec toi lol

We must be patient because it is to be the world champion! And it's like a sneaky battle, with any mistake would turn to a defeat, do not go faster because we'll soon see who will take the lead ... have fun, like chess.

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