chessgames.com
Members · Prefs · Laboratory · Collections · Openings · Endgames · Sacrifices · History · Search Kibitzing · Kibitzer's Café · Chessforums · Tournament Index · Players · Kibitzing
Karen H Grigoryan vs Tigran L Petrosian
77th ch-ARM HL (2017), Yerevan ARM, rd 3, Jan-14
Caro-Kann Defense: Advance. Tal Variation (B12)  ·  1-0

ANALYSIS [x]

FEN COPIED

explore this opening
find similar games 3 more K Grigoryan/T L Petrosian games
sac: 23.Ncd6 PGN: download | view | print Help: general | java-troubleshooting

TIP: You can get computer analysis by clicking the "ENGINE" button below the game.

PGN Viewer:  What is this?
For help with this chess viewer, please see the Olga Chess Viewer Quickstart Guide.
PREMIUM MEMBERS CAN REQUEST COMPUTER ANALYSIS [more info]

A COMPUTER ANNOTATED SCORE OF THIS GAME IS AVAILABLE.  [CLICK HERE]

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Apr-26-18  ChessHigherCat: Well I got the first couple moves and then outfoxed myself with an overly ambitious plan. It really was about trapping the queen after all.
Apr-26-18  RKnight: The queen "trap" 23 Nc3, which costs a N and R is not a clear win, Engine doesn't think so either. But I guess it's best play in this position.
Apr-26-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  al wazir: The black ♕ clearly had few safe squares, so I looked first for a way to trap it.

And missed it.

But I think black should still have been able to draw. After 37. Qe3 c5, white can win a ♙ with 38. Nxc5 Rxc5 39. Qxd4, but now black connects the ♖s with 39...Rfc8, and the position looks blocked:


click for larger view

Apr-26-18  diagonalley: <al wazir> ... me too (as usual!)
Apr-26-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: Black threatens Nxd4 and Nxh4.

The black queen looks nearly trapped. This suggests 23.Ncd6:

A) 23... Nxd6 24.Nc3

A.1) 24... Qb(c)4 25.Ra4 wins the queen for a rook and a knight.

A.2) 24... Nef5 25.Nxb5 (25.exd6 Qb4) 25... Nxb5 26.Qxc6 wins decisive material.

B) 23... Qb4 24.Ra4 Nxd4 25.Rxd4 wins decisive material.

C) 23... Qd5 24.Nc3 Nxd4 25.Nxd5 Nxc2 26.Nxe7+ Kh7 27.Ra6 wins decisive material.

Apr-26-18  patzer2: I could see White's Queen was nearly trapped, but it took me a while to find 23. Ncd6 Nxd6 24. Nc3 ± (+1.25 @ 36 ply, Stockfish 9 analysis of move 23.?) and exploit this weakness.

If 23...Qd5, then 24. Nc3 +- (+2.46 @ 23 ply, Stockfish 9 analysis of move 24...?) looks to be decisive.

Apr-26-18  patzer2: Black's mistake appears to be the recapture 22...axb6?, which allows today's Thursday puzzle solution 23. Ncd6 ± to +-.

Instead, 22...Nxd4 gives Black good practical counter chances at stealing the initiative. It (i.e. 22...Nxd4) also forces White to find many difficult moves, starting with 23. Qd3 = to ⩲ (+0.20 @ 33 ply, Stockfish 9 analysis of move 22...?), just to hold the balance slightly in his favor.

Apr-26-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: <al wazir: ... But I think black should still have been able to draw. After 37. Qe3 c5, white can win a ♙ with ...>

After <37.Qe3 c5> white can also switch for the kingside and go after black's ♔ with <38.Qg5>


click for larger view

b e.g. <38...Ra8 39.Nf6+ Kf8 40.Nxh5 g6 41.Nf6>


click for larger view

Nothing decisive after e.g. <41...Nc6 42.Qh6+ Ke7 43.Qe3 Raa2 44.Ne4>, but all a worthy alternative to think of.

Apr-26-18  ndg2: What's wrong with 22.Nc3 Qxc4 23.Ra4? Doesnt that ein the same amount of Material?
Apr-26-18  newzild: <ndg2>

Unfortunately, the Black queen can escape with 23...Qa6.

Apr-26-18  latebishop: I also thought that 22. Nc3 Qxc4 23.Ra4 wins but unfortunately 23...Nxd4 complicates things.
Apr-26-18  saturn2: Saw this one. 23 Ncd6 and the two subsequent moves catch the black queen at the price of N+R
Apr-26-18  mel gibson: I didn't know what to play.

Stockfish 9 follows the same line
but gives less than a 1 pawn advantage.

23. Ncd6

(23. Ncd6 (♘c4-d6 ♘f5xd6 ♘e4-c3
♕b5-b4 ♖a1-a4 ♕b4xa4 ♘c3xa4 ♘d6-f5 ♘a4xb6 ♘f5xh4 ♖d1-d3 ♘h4-f5 ♕c2-d2 ♖f8-e8 g2-g3 ♖d8-b8 ♘b6-d7 ♖b8-d8 ♘d7-c5 ♖d8-d5 ♘c5-e4 ♖e8-d8 ♕d2-g5 ♖d5xd4 ♖d3xd4 ♖d8xd4 ♘e4-f6+ ♔g8-f8 ♘f6-h7+ ♔f8-e8 ♕g5xh5 ♘e7-g6 ♘h7-g5 ♔e8-e7 ♕h5-e2 ♖d4-d5 ♘g5-f3 c6-c5 ♕e2-a6 ♘g6xe5 ♘f3xe5 ♖d5xe5) +0.81/33 163)

score for White +0.81 depth 33

Apr-26-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  malt: Gathered todays POTD was to trap the Queen.
23.Ncd6 N:d6 (23...Qd5 24.Nc3 R:d6 25.N:d5 R:d5 )

24.Nc3 Qc4 25 Ra4

Apr-26-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  malt: Missed
23...Qd5 24.Nc3 N:d4 25.N:d5 N:c2
26.N:e7+ Kh7 27.Rac1 Nb4 28.N:c6
Apr-26-18  njchess: I got the queen trap, but I wasn't sure that was a winning strategy given the material exchange and the resulting position. I thought Black should be able to hide behind his pawns, apply pressure to White's queen, while keeping his knight's out of harms way. I was wrong.
Apr-26-18  saturn2: I played over the game now. 34 Qb3 seems a serious mistake.
Apr-26-18  Reisswolf: I don't think it was a good puzzle. I got the general idea, but I feel that a good puzzle should have a more forcing continuation.
Apr-26-18  messachess: Tough one.
Apr-26-18  swclark25: <saturn2> 34.Qd3 also looked odd to me. What would you think better? 34.Qxc6 or exchange Knights with 34.Nxc3 ?
Apr-26-18  cormier:


click for larger view

Analysis by Houdini 4
16...f6 17.Be3 Rd8 18.Qd3 Nb4 19.Qb3 Nd5 20.Qd3 = (0.00) Depth: 22 dpa

Apr-26-18  mel gibson: < Reisswolf: I don't think it was a good puzzle. I got the general idea, but I feel that a good puzzle should have a more forcing continuation.>

Yes a gain of less than a pawn in 33 plies is hardly a chess puzzle.

Apr-26-18  lost in space: missed this
Apr-27-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  al wazir: <whiteshark: 37. Qe3 c5 38.Qg5.>

That's certainly an improvement. But after 38...Nf5 39. Nf6+ Kh8 40. Qxh5+ Nh6, what does white do?

Apr-27-18
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: <al wazir: 37.Qe3 c5 38.Qg5. But after 38...Nf5 39. Nf6+ Kh8 40. Qxh5+ Nh6, what does white do?> 41.g4 followed by 42.g5. You can't take ♘f6 due to #. Thus you'll drop ♘h6. You may hope for a ♖♖'7th heaven perpetual' but I don't see it after a Ne4 (or Ng4) retreat.
search thread:   
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>

NOTE: Create an account today to post replies and access other powerful features which are available only to registered users. Becoming a member is free, anonymous, and takes less than 1 minute! If you already have a username, then simply login login under your username now to join the discussion.

Please observe our posting guidelines:

  1. No obscene, racist, sexist, or profane language.
  2. No spamming, advertising, duplicate, or gibberish posts.
  3. No vitriolic or systematic personal attacks against other members.
  4. Nothing in violation of United States law.
  5. No cyberstalking or malicious posting of negative or private information (doxing/doxxing) of members.
  6. No trolling.
  7. The use of "sock puppet" accounts to circumvent disciplinary action taken by moderators, create a false impression of consensus or support, or stage conversations, is prohibited.

Please try to maintain a semblance of civility at all times.

Blow the Whistle

See something that violates our rules? Blow the whistle and inform a moderator.


NOTE: Please keep all discussion on-topic. This forum is for this specific game only. To discuss chess or this site in general, visit the Kibitzer's Café.

Messages posted by Chessgames members do not necessarily represent the views of Chessgames.com, its employees, or sponsors.
All moderator actions taken are ultimately at the sole discretion of the administration.

This game is type: CLASSICAL. Please report incorrect or missing information by submitting a correction slip to help us improve the quality of our content.

Featured in the Following Game Collections[what is this?]
52b_Midddlegames - The Q vs RN thing (and endgam
by whiteshark
Study
from Games for future study by takchess
23.? (Thursday, April 26)
from POTD Caro-Kann 2 by takchess
Caro-Kann Defense: Advance. Tal Var (B12) 1-0 23.?
from B 12 Vitamins for Fredthebear by fredthebear
Aprils Showers Shined Up Fredthebear
by fredthebear
58b_middlegames w/o BB (Bishop-less)
by whiteshark
23.? (Thursday, April 26)
from Puzzle of the Day 2018 by Phony Benoni
23.? (April 26, 2018)
from Thursday Puzzles, 2018-2021 by Phony Benoni

Home | About | Login | Logout | F.A.Q. | Profile | Preferences | Premium Membership | Kibitzer's Café | Biographer's Bistro | New Kibitzing | Chessforums | Tournament Index | Player Directory | Notable Games | World Chess Championships | Opening Explorer | Guess the Move | Game Collections | ChessBookie Game | Chessgames Challenge | Store | Privacy Notice | Contact Us

Copyright 2001-2021, Chessgames Services LLC