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Max Deutsch vs Magnus Carlsen
Exhibition Game (2017) (exhibition), Hamburg GER, Nov-09
Spanish Game: Cozio Defense. General (C60)  ·  0-1

ANALYSIS [x]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Nov-18-17  frogbert: <I think that in just two years he could achieve a 4-digit rating>

Hahaha! Exceptional talent, indeed. :)

Nov-18-17  dumbgai: During that month of studying chess he didn’t learn that resigning is a thing.
Nov-18-17  beenthere240: Deutch is probably bragging that he went 39 moves with the champ!
Nov-20-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: Here's a CB-report about Max's and his <M2M> chess challenge: http://en.chessbase.com/post/beatin...
Nov-20-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  posoo: MORFUDLIAN u r ALWAYS complaning about pons not making LINGUISTAC SENSE

da corect pronuncation is "DOICH"

not DOOSHE

*********

Nov-20-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  posoo: you know, like Deutschland.

**************

Nov-20-17  todicav23: This guy was basically thinking that he can use machine learning to extract (and memorize) some kind of high level rules that will allow him to beat Magnus.

He failed to realize that many people have tried to do the same thing and failed (including Botvinnik). Chess is too complex to be reduced to a set of rules. That's why brute force approaches (exploring a very large number of positions) are far more effective.

In my opinion he made a fool of himself.

Nov-20-17  ReneDescartes: What a fatuous ass.
Nov-20-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  posoo: FOOLES - dis man NEVOR thot he could win!

YOU HAVE BEEN FOOLLED

da man got to play chesse against MUGNUS! did U ever gat dat?

FATUOUS?

no u buffones, da man is making MUNNEY off these things WHY do u take him for real?

there is word for u al

S U K K E R S

Nov-20-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  alexmagnus: <He failed to realize that many people have tried to do the same thing and failed (including Botvinnik). Chess is too complex to be reduced to a set of rules. That's why brute force approaches (exploring a very large number of positions) are far more effective.> Well, Go is even more complex but eventually computers outdid humans by exactly that - machine learning.

Deutsch tried the same - train a neural network, memorize its weights, and then do the necessary calculations in his head. The problem is, his network was surely much> more shallow than that of Apha Go Zero (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha...), otherwise he couldn't have memorized it.

Nov-20-17  todicav23: <alexmagnus: <He failed to realize that many people have tried to do the same thing and failed (including Botvinnik). Chess is too complex to be reduced to a set of rules. That's why brute force approaches (exploring a very large number of positions) are far more effective.> Well, Go is even more complex but eventually computers outdid humans by exactly that - machine learning.

Deutsch tried the same - train a neural network, memorize its weights, and then do the necessary calculations in his head. The problem is, his network was surely much> more shallow than that of Apha Go Zero (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha...), otherwise he couldn't have memorized it.>

Of course, a machine learning approach will do better than humans at chess because computers are much faster. But a brute force approach (like modern chess engines do - search combined with an extremely fine tuned evaluation function) will work much better. You could probably argue that the evaluation function is the result of machine learning.

Anyway, what this guy tried to do is to use machine learning to generate a "simple model" of how chess works. "Simple model" means something (set of rules, neural networks, etc.) that he could memorize in a few days and "apply it" while playing over the board.

He was really delusional to think that his approach will work.

Nov-20-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  posoo: TODACOOV I am tryna EDOCATE U.

Da man NEVER thot he would win. He wanted da RATINGSCAJD atenchuh.

And he got yours! You have been swindled because you are da one who lacks MENTAL ACOITY.

Nov-20-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  tpstar: For a rank beginner after one month of intensive study, White played a very decent game. He followed the standard opening principles and reached an even position up to 8 ... d6, when 9. Qd2 is undoubtedly better than 9. Nd5. Deutsch will probably brag about lasting for 39 moves against the World Champion, being completely oblivious that a professional would resign after 14 ... Bxd4 losing a piece with no compensation, and then would never play it out to mate. This should have been a two-game match, so Carlsen could have played a King's Gambit or Vienna Gambit as White to wipe him out quickly.

Carlsen must be very careful about future challenges. Some hotshot will attempt a surefire way to cheat with computer help, and he will never live it down.

Nov-21-17  dumbgai: He wasn’t a rank beginner though. He already had some basic knowledge of the game before starting this thing. This game looks like pretty much what I expect from someone that studied chess for a month: play some reasonable opening moves and then start blundering pieces.
Nov-22-17  zanzibar: Technically, this was a won game for Black after 3...Nge7.
Nov-25-17  The Rocket: Pointless excercise.
Nov-25-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  MissScarlett: Only if you think Magnus played for free.
Nov-25-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  thegoodanarchist: Max embarrassment for Max Deutsch.
Nov-25-17  The Kings Domain: (lol) Still chuckling to this.
Nov-26-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  offramp:


click for larger view

What is Black's bishop doing? Is it a fork or a skewer or a skewery-fork? Or a pin?

Nov-27-17  zanzibar: <offramp> I would call it an X-Ray Fork (a fork that involves at least one x-ray attack simultaneously).

It could also be labeled a shish kabob.

http://www.vodkaandbiscuits.com/wp-...

(Yum yum)

But yes, it's all the components you listed. It all in the X-Ray Family of tactics.

* * * * *

I used to talk incessantly about this stuff before my chess history binge,

https://chesstempo.com/chess-forum/...

In particular, I like this diagram:

https://chesstempo.com/chess-forum/...

X-Ray Forks lie above the diagram there - or perhaps are in the Terra Incognita. It's handled properly by Venn Diagrams in the new math the kids learn today.

Nov-28-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  Diademas: Smart move by Deutsch hiding his prep.
Nov-30-17
Premium Chessgames Member
  sleepyirv: Here's the Wall Street Journal article on the game: https://www.wsj.com/articles/chess-...

It's quite good as Deutsch is an interesting character, but the chess coverage is bad and objective reporting would require the writer to admit as much instead of playing up how "close" Deutsch thought the game was.

Carlsen was jittery? I would worry for the World Champion's nerves if he got jittery every time someone played the Spanish against him! Deutsch had the early advantage? Well, if Carlsen busted the Spanish that would probably be bigger news! He played a sideline to get the amateur out of book, which led the amateur to play weakening moves until he walked into a terrible blunder.

I don't mean to insult Deutsch who, again, seems like a very interesting person. But even a sports page feel-good story should be required to provide a sense of what actually happened.

Sep-18-18  Dr.Drunkenstein: Lol...this game was really funny..deutsche not resigning till the last..
Aug-06-19  Chesgambit: offical match Max Deutsch
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