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Fabiano Caruana vs Magnus Carlsen
Carlsen - Caruana World Championship Match (2018), London ENG, rd 5, Nov-15
Sicilian Defense: Nezhmetdinov-Rossolimo Attack. Gurgenidze Variation (B31)  ·  1/2-1/2



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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 12 OF 12 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: This must have been exciting to watch! I just logged on about 10 minutes ago and it was finished. But b4 etc certainly led to an interesting game.
Nov-15-18  rogge: Having watched the press conference, both players seem to think that 20...b5 wouldn't make much of a difference. The jury's still out on that one..
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: The game somewhat followed (in the opening for some moves) the game by the quite strong women players Jackova (Czech) and the Iranian Shadi Paridar. It is one method to play the same opening and "spring" novelties. Possibly both Caruana and Carlsen had studied the line a bit but it wouldn't be the main line studied by Carlsen. A kind of delayed wing gambit..
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: They say that but it was worth a shot: yes, against some even very strong players it would be a bit disconcerting but Carlsen either is or pretends to be bored all the time so it may have made no difference. But Aronian managed to beat him with, let's say it, off-beat moves...
Premium Chessgames Member
  Diademas: At the press conference the players got asked about favorite players from the past.

M.C.: <I would probably say my favorite player from the past is myself 3-4 years ago.>

Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: Good game. Most of the games so far have been.

<Vladimir Zukhar: interesting chess...certainly not Karpov-Korchnoi WC Match...but interesting. also, when you have Tal as a second, you can play stuff in a WC match like the Karpov Gambit in the Ruy Lopez. Now that took b@lls!! 11 Ng5 night sac in a WC game!>

Correction. When you have Tal as a second <and no engines>, you can play stuff like the Karpov Gambit in a WC match.

Nov-15-18  Caleb554: <Count Wedgemore: Carlsen's king retreat shows how misguided his whole king excursion has been, starting with 20...Kb6. >

He had two back to back whites. No reason to sweat after queens were off. The position was dynamically equal with Caruana up a pawn. Equalizing meant positional concessions with all the material off the board. He took the most pragmatic approach.

Nov-15-18  anjumskhan: Their scores :

Fabiano Caruana
0 Inaccuracies
0 Mistakes
0 Blunders
5 Average centipawn loss
Magnus Carlsen
0 Inaccuracies
0 Mistakes
0 Blunders
5 Average centipawn loss

Horrifyingly accurate.

Premium Chessgames Member
  louispaulsen88888888: Jackova Paridar continued 10...cxb4. White won that game. The shortest game so far but interesting again.
Premium Chessgames Member
  louispaulsen88888888: 20...Kb6 seemed like one of three or four reasonable moves.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Sargon: <anjumskhan: [...]
Fabiano Caruana
0 Inaccuracies
0 Mistakes
0 Blunders
5 Average centipawn loss

Magnus Carlsen
0 Inaccuracies
0 Mistakes
0 Blunders
5 Average centipawn loss>

Some were opining that Magnus Carlsen squandered a <win> in Round 2—or maybe it was Round 1. If true, then the suggestion that both players have been perfect could stand some revision.

Squandering a win, if not a bona fide <blunder>, is minimally tatamount to an <inaccuracy>, if not an outright <mistake>, and—by logical extension—also suggests that Fabiano Caruana had committed an even more egregious <error>...

Nov-15-18  DrGridlock: <Sargon> I think that <anjumskhan> was referring to game 5, not to the entire match.
Nov-15-18  Jambow: Another Rossolimo Scicilain? Well the game was inteesting at least for a draw.

<Sargon> it was round 1 and in that game Magnus had it won.

Over all they have been simplifying the game and avoiding complexities so not making innacurate moves enough to win or lose becomes even less likely at their level.

Nov-15-18  optimal play: The games are progressively getting shorter.

I'm not sure that's a good sign.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Sargon: <DrGridlock: <Sargon> I think that <anjumskhan> was referring to game 5, not to the entire match.>

It seems not, because he cited <average> centipawn loss...

Premium Chessgames Member
  ChessHigherCat: <Sargon: Some were opining that Magnus Carlsen squandered a <win> in Round 2—or maybe it was Round 1. ***If true***, then the suggestion that both players have been perfect could stand some revision.>

"If true" is the keyword. How likely is it that someone at least 3,000 points below either of them (as a conservative estimate) could out-calculate Carlsen in a game with such high stakes? The patzers are much more likely to be missing something than Carlsen, and even if the computer found a likely win after 7 hours on 9-million ply that can hardly be called "squandering a win" if Carlsen didn't see it under time constraints.

Nov-15-18  bialyhetman: Anyone here who shares my view that if Caruana draws all his games like this then Carlsen will outplay him in blitzes? It is said Caruana has a super calculating computer-like brain that excels at time-consuming in-depth analysis but performs somewhat worse in fast-paced environments when the time factor puts enormous pressure on the players and tactical fireworks begin to go off. Carlsen is said to handle such situations much better. Magnus is as much a chess artist as he is a calculating genius. Fabiano is supposedly a calculating machine before all else and less likely to come up with an intuitive daring move if he's not 100% sure it'll work.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Penguincw: Video analysis of this game:
Nov-15-18  zanzibar: Video of the post-game interview:

(Skip forward for Carlsen--Caruana section)

Caruana is Mr. Steady, almost deadpan steady. But he represents himself well.

Carlsen is relaxed and gets the best line of the interview off...

<That ship has sailed!>


Nov-16-18  Ulhumbrus: The trouble with these gambits is that Black may return the pawn in order to catch up in development, and as one of the commentators indicated, Black has then his bishop pair.

One or more of the GM commentators may have indicated the move 12 Nbd2 instead of 12 Qe2. If 12...b4 can be called a threat which keeps White's QN out of play, one justification for 12 Nbd2 is that on 12...b4 13 Nb3 the N is in play, covering d4 and c5.

After 16...Nc6 the computer analysis indicated an interesting resource for White, namely, the manoeuvre Nd2-c4-b6 making a fork against the black king on d7 and the black rook on a8 eg after 17 Rd1 Kd7 18 d4 Bg4 19 d5 Nd4 20 Nbd2 Ra8 21 Nc4 threatening the fork Nb6 and perhaps White has to make use of resources like this if he is to gain any advantage

Nov-16-18  Scarborough shoal: How about a new rule to consider in the future?

When the King reaches the 8th rank of his opponent he wins the game.


When the white King occupies Black King's K8 or E8, and vice-versa, he wins the game.

Nov-16-18  saturn2: <bialyhetman: Carlson will outplay him in blitzes?> Before blitz there is rapid. To illustrate the difference: There was a blitz game between them with Carlson white playing. 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 Nc6 3 Bb5 a6 4 Bxc6 dxc6 5 Nxe5

In blitz he can play like this. In rapid probably not.

Premium Chessgames Member
  Domdaniel: <Scarborough Sh ...> < When the King reaches the 8th rank of the opponent ...>

Um, isn't that where the opposing King *starts*?

Do we really want to see games ending at move 1?

Nov-18-18  RandomVisitor: After <6.b4 Nxb4>

(on 6...cxb4 there is +0.26/54 7.a3 b3 8.cxb3 Nge7 9.Nc3 0-0 10.Bc4 d6 11.a4 a6 12.h3 Rb8)

Stockfish likes the line played here:

<7.Bb2 a6 8.a3 axb5 9.axb4 Rxa1 10.Bxa1 d6 11.bxc5 Ne7>

click for larger view

And now:

Stockfish_18111220_x64_modern: <48 hours computer time>

67/91 +0.16 <12.Qe2 b4> 13.c3 Nc6 14.cxb4 dxc5 15.bxc5 Qa5 16.Nc3 Qxc5 17.Qe3 Qxe3 18.fxe3 0-0 19.Rb1 Rd8 20.Rb5 Be6 21.Nd5 h6 22.Bb2 Rd7

67/94 +0.13 12.cxd6 Qxd6 13.d4 exd4 14.Bxd4 0-0 15.Bxg7 Qxd1 16.Rxd1 Kxg7 17.Nd4 b4 18.Nd2 f5 19.e5 Nc6 20.Nxc6 bxc6 21.Nb3 f4 22.Rd6 Re8

...suggesting perhaps that the move played (13.Qc4) was a difficult-to-prepare-for move aimed at taking his opponent out of any quickly-prepared lines involving analysis with Stockfish.


+0.00/72 13...Nc6 14.d4 exd4 15.Nxd4 Bxd4 16.Bxd4 Be6 17.Qb5 0-0 18.Be3 dxc5 19.Bxc5 Re8

+0.09/63 <13...Qa5 14.cxd6 Be6 15.Qc7 Qxc7 16.dxc7 Nc6> 17.Rd1

...which amazingly follows the game up to 17.Rd1

After 16...Nc6 in the game, the computer likes 17.Rd1


<+0.07/69 17.Rd1> Kd7 18.d4 Bg4 19.d5 Nd4 20.Nbd2 Bxf3 21.Nxf3 Nxf3+ 22.gxf3 Kxc7 23.f4

May-03-20  Whitehat1963: Very high-level look at the Opening of the Day. Any missed opportunities early?
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