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Magnus Carlsen vs Ding Liren
Sinquefield Cup Tiebreaks (2019) (blitz), St Louis, MO USA, rd 4, Aug-29
Spanish Game: Closed. Martinez Variation (C78)  ·  0-1

ANALYSIS [x]

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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Aug-29-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  whiteshark: Magnus was in a must-win-situation in this game, so he had to take a risk to avoid a draw. On equal terms he'd surely have taken the draw:


click for larger view

Black to move

1) =0.00 (29 ply) <32...Ba8 33.gxf6 Qb7 34.Kf1 Qg2+ 35.Ke2 Qf3+ 36.Kf1> Bxf6 37.Rec1 Rf8 38.Qxa6 Bb7 39.Qe2 Qg2+ 40.Ke1 d5 41.Qf1 Qf3 42.Qe2 Qg2

2) =0.00 (28 ply) 32...Bd8 33.Qxa3 Ba8 34.gxf6 Qb7 35.Kf1 Qg2+ 36.Ke2 Qf3+ 37.Kf1 Qg2+

Aug-29-19  Mudphudder: Definitely the most beautiful blitz ending I've ever seen. Even a little more beautiful than the Carlsen/Karjakin blitz ending to win the world championship (since Ding didn't even have a queen here!).
Aug-29-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Dionysius1: When I was watching the commentary Maurice said there was no way of avoiding the mate on h1. But the fairly simple 41 f3 and 42 Bg1 slows the win down a lot and the mate isn't on h1 at all.

That's the first time I've thought Maurice was getting carried away to the extent of being inaccurate, and it's kind of disappointing. All that bluster when what he said was wrong.

Ok, sure it's a Black win anyway, but Maurice would have seen f3 and Bg1, and seems to have ignored it in the interests of a good shout.

Hmm

Aug-29-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Diademas: <Dionysius1: When I was watching the commentary Maurice said there was no way of avoiding the mate on h1. But the fairly simple 41 f3 and 42 Bg1 slows the win down a lot and the mate isn't on h1 at all.>

Well, yes. But the banal 41... Bx3+ 42.Kxg3 Nf5+ 43.Kf2 Nxd6 is utterly hopeless, and that's not even black's best resource. ( 41...Bxf3 42.Qd8+ Kg7 43.Bg1 Nf5 44.Qg5 Rc2+ 45.Bf2 Rxf2+ 46.Kg1 Rg2+ 47.Kf1 Ne3+ 48.Ke1 Bxg3+ 49.Qxg3 Re2#)
Hard to criticise Maurice for being a bit hyperbole with such a nifty ending.

Aug-29-19  fisayo123: The commentators were a bit critical of Carlsen giving away his light square bishop but he had to because he just loses a pawn to 18. Bc2 Ncxe4 and his position is collapsing.
Aug-29-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: <Dionysius1: When I was watching the commentary Maurice said there was no way of avoiding the mate on h1. But the fairly simple 41 f3 and 42 Bg1 slows the win down a lot and the mate isn't on h1 at all. That's the first time I've thought Maurice was getting carried away to the extent of being inaccurate, and it's kind of disappointing. All that bluster when what he said was wrong.

Ok, sure it's a Black win anyway, but Maurice would have seen f3 and Bg1, and seems to have ignored it in the interests of a good shout.

Hmm>

No, it was clearly won by Liren and his play was brilliant. Watching the replay as if live I have not seen quite such a brilliant finish at that level in blitz...Morice is enthusiastic and gets "very excite" but given that Carlsen and Diren thought it was mate or hopeless I think his excitement was justified.

And it is good to see someone take out Carlsen at last in these play offs with great play all things considered. Carlsen was gracious in defeat.

Aug-30-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Dionysius1: I agree <Diademas> and <Richard Taylor>. But those are different issues. I would have thought this forum, where I see reams of technical analysis, would be the place to make my point.

It was a wonderful game with closing moves like an electric shock. The fact that the possibility of a longer defence wasn't mentioned doesn't detract from that at all, but it does from the commentary at that point.

Aug-30-19  tigreton: If 41. f3 Bxf3 42. Bg1, then 42 ... Rc2+ looks decisive.
Aug-30-19  Ulhumbrus: One reason for connecting the rooks by 16 Bd2 is that 16...Nb7 can be answered by 17 b4 and 17...a5 by 18 a3 keeping the knight out of play.
Aug-30-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: <Dionysius1 I hear what you are saying.

Others would agree in point of fact, in fact I didn't notice there was any defence at the time. I can add that Carlsen also didn't analyse that either and nor did Liren. The position just looks so hopeless.

Morice is manning the computer and I am not sure how accurate it is. Any computer results have to be taken as dubious. But there it probably showed a large number indicating a mate whatever happened. A brief analysis by the team, not for 'technical players', but those not so good at chess or beginners etc, in many positions is good. Overall as they are less 'technical' than Peter Svidler it is better for me.

But there certainly are plenty of people on here who follow every game, all the nuances and so on. I am a bit more like someone who is new to chess!

So I like to see the players etc. After the game the analysis seems all a bit depressing to me, although I was puzzling over Carlsen's opening against MVL.

It seems to me that 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5....

well even here there are some interesting moves i.e. 3....Nd4! which I think maybe the best and I have also tried 3....Na5, not so good but not as bad as it looks. I also almost beat (draw) an IM with just 3...a3 and I took with the d pawn. The game eventually became quite complex.

But the game as played continued 3...g6 which is also very good, 4 Bxc6 bxc6 (Carlsen used to mostly play dxc6) and now 5. d4 cxd4 6. Qxd4 f6

And here it really doesn't look to me very good for Carlsen. Now 7. Nc3 or possibly 7. Rd1 are good.

As MVL played very soon he should have played c5.

He doesn't really need to keep the Maroczy bind as Black is behind in development. White is slightly better.

I didn't actually analyze this part of the game just studied it a bit and tried moves etc taking into account the ideas. The rest of the game was undoubtedly good but there were so many games I haven't looked at it all.

I have to say that I prefer watching it live and seeing, as well as opening ideas and nice tactics, the psychology etc rather than being concerned too much about who is winning etc. But because Liren was more or less the 'underdog' I wanted him to win.

Not because I dislike Carlsen just that it is good to see someone new-ish come along and win, and then win the tie-breaks!

Aug-31-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Count Wedgemore: <Richard Taylor: well even here there are some interesting moves i.e. 3....Nd4! which I think maybe the best and I have also tried 3....Na5, not so good but not as bad as it looks.>

3...Nd4 looks bad, <Richard>. But of course sometimes it's good to mix things up. Never played much against the Rosolimo, or the Sicilian in general with Black for that matter, but I like 3...d6, followed up by ...Bd7 as soon as possible to get out of the pin.

Aug-31-19  DreighNoriel: Counterplay after counterplay after counterplay! Beautiful!
Aug-31-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Diademas: <Dionysius1: When I was watching the commentary Maurice said there was no way of avoiding the mate on h1. But the fairly simple 41 f3 and 42 Bg1 slows the win down a lot and the mate isn't on h1 at all.>

I watched it again, and it's simply not correct. Maurice says after 40.Ne7 "Winning the game, the game is over." (2:35:14), at no time does he say that there is no way of avoiding the mate on h1.

The f3 move is covered on 2:35:27 where he just says "f3 and bishop takes f3" (42.Bg1 Nf5 43.Qd8+ Kg7 44.Qg5 Rc2+ 45.Bf2 Rxf2+ 46.Kg1 Rg2+ 47.Kf1 Ne3+ 48.Ke1 Bxg3+ 49.Qxg3 Re2# ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJr...

Aug-31-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Diademas: If you want to criticise inaccurate commentating, my personal favorite comes at 2:36:18 when Jennifer Shahade says "Ding Liren gets a very deserved round of applause, but the applause isn't gonna die out any time soon." The applause dies out the very same second.
Aug-31-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  saffuna: <If you want to criticise inaccurate commentating, my personal favorite comes at 2:36:18 when Jennifer Shahade says "Ding Liren gets a very deserved round of applause, but the applause isn't gonna die out any time soon." The applause dies out the very same second.>

I think Shahade was saying "applause" metaphorically. She was saying his performance was going to be applauded in the press and on the Internet and it won't die out quickly. That's what's happening right here.

Aug-31-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Diademas: <saffuna>
Whatever she ment - It was a funny moment.
Aug-31-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  saffuna: Yes, it was at the same moment the applause stopped.

It's hard for a group of twenty or thirty people to keep applause going for long. An odd layout for playing and watching top-level tennis: no seats, only standing room, very close to the players but room for only a few spectators.

Aug-31-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Diademas: Tennis? :)
Aug-31-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  saffuna: Oops! Watching the US Open at the same time. I meant parcheesi.
Aug-31-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Dionysius1: Thanks Diademas. I've looked at it and I see what you mean. But "the game is over now" - it wasn't. It wouldn't be over for 9 moves (unless Magnus resigned, which he hadn't yet), and some of them weren't trivial moves - they included f3 and Bg1.

I still say Ashley got carried away and did a (small) disservice to the listeners.

Meh - it's over now anyway :-)

Sep-02-19  frankumber: this is quite possibly the most beautiful blitz game ever played...
Sep-04-19  messachess: What was the time control exactly?
Sep-13-19
Premium Chessgames Member
  Richard Taylor: <Count Wedgemore: <Richard Taylor: well even here there are some interesting moves i.e. 3....Nd4! which I think maybe the best and I have also tried 3....Na5, not so good but not as bad as it looks.> 3...Nd4 looks bad, <Richard>. But of course sometimes it's good to mix things up. Never played much against the Rosolimo, or the Sicilian in general with Black for that matter, but I like 3...d6, followed up by ...Bd7 as soon as possible to get out of the pin.>

3. ... Nd4 I thought that that was what my computer had come up with some time ago, but looking at it now, I see it recommends either 3....e6 or even 3. ... e5 but 3. ... g6 appears to be the most popular moves.

I suppose all these moves might be re-evaluated with Alpha-Zero. Not that it matters too much. It is almost a matter of taste.

This was an exciting game to end the match to watch.

Sep-13-19  s4life: <Dionysius1: Thanks Diademas. I've looked at it and I see what you mean. But "the game is over now" - it wasn't. It wouldn't be over for 9 moves .. I still say Ashley got carried away and did a (small) disservice to the listeners.> b!tch please..
Sep-13-19  mikealando: Liren's blitz immortal(?) Fab Game. It was great relief for a devoted Carlsenite like myself to see Magnus's (near) tie for 1st after he'd spent the longest time mid-table. It's crazy at the top. There used to be all that talk about rating inflation in chess but the game really is being played at a much higher point today than ever before.
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