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John M Emms vs Lubomir Ftacnik
BCF-chT 1999/00 (4NCL) (2000), Brimingham, rd 11, May-01
Pirc Defense: Classical Variation. Two Knights System (B08)  ·  1/2-1/2



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Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Apr-04-21  Refused: I fail to see the improvement of 48...Kg3 49.Kd2 Re4 50.Kd3 Rf4 51.Rxe6 (I basically used Lubo's move to see whether that extra tempo changes things). White should still hold this.

<al wazir: 48...Kg3 49. d5 e5. Now what?>

Doesn't that run into 48...Kg3 49.d5? Rd1+ 50.Ke2 Rxd5 51.Rxe6 Rf5 and that should be winning for black.

Apr-04-21  Viennablue: @Refused: I think in your line after 50.Kd3, black has ...50.Kf3!, opening the highway for the g-pawn with tempo
Apr-04-21  AlicesKnight: Did 48 ... kf3 'allowing' the check have the same kind of thinking behind it as in Leonhardt vs Spielmann, 1912 - ? - at move 46 Spielmann might have won with ... Kc3 and after 47.Rc8+ Kxd4 White is forced back to protect his g-pawn, in effect losing a tempo. But here the white R could maintain its attack from the side and improve its freedom, so the gain of space for g-pawn advance does not help as much. I don't have silicon and am not expert enough to push this....
Apr-04-21  Muttley101: <opus: 48...Kf5 49. Rf8+ Kg4 50. Kd2 Ra1 51. Rf6 Kh4 52. Rxe6 g4 53. Rh6+ Kg3 54. Ke3 Kg2 55. Rg6 Ra3+ 56. Ke2 g3 57. Rf6 Ra4 58. Rf2+ gxf2 59. Kd3 f1=Q+ 60. Ke4 Qf3+ 61. Ke5 Qe2+ 62. Kd5 Ra5+ 63. Kc6 Qd3 64. Kb6 Rd5 65. Kb7 Qxd4 66. Kc7 Qc5+ 67. Kb7 Rd6 68. Kb8 Rd7 69. Ka8 Qc8# or 8...Kf5 49. Rf8+ Kg4 50. Kd2 Re4 51. Kd3 Rf4 52. Rxf4+ Kxf4 53. Ke2 g4 54. Kf2 Ke4 55. Kg3 Kxd4 56. Kxg4 e5 57. Kf5 Kd5 58. Kg4 e4 59. Kg3 e3 60. Kf3 Kd4 61. Kg2 Kd3 62. Kf3 e2 63. Kf2 Kd2 64. Kf3 e1=Q 65. Kf4 Qa1 66. Ke4 Qc3 67. Kd5 Qb4 68. Ke5 Qc4 69. Kf6 Qd5 70. Kg6 Qe5 71. Kh7 Qe6 72. Kg7 Qf5 73. Kg8 Ke3 74. Kg7 Kf4 75. Kg8 Kg5 76. Kh8 Kg6 77. Kg8 Qc8#>

In your first line, 55. d5 is not only an easier draw than 55. Rg6, it is the natural move also. The position at 57 ... Ra4 is still drawn after 58. d5, but 58. Rf2+ is a move that is obviously losing. Just looking at the text shows 58. Rf2+ g:f2 and black has not only given up his rook, but helped black queen the pawn.

In your second line, 52. R:f4+ is again inexplicable. Keeping the rooks on is a draw, 52. R:f4+ K:f4 is an obviously lost K+P ending. Even in that position the next moves are odd- after 53. Ke2 Ke4 wins the d-pawn and black is then two pawns up.

If you are a beginner and this is your analysis, kudos on taking the time to try to analyse the ending and posting your analysis. You can learn from this by now knowing you can look up tablebases which are free online, which will give you an accurate assessment of up to 7 piece endings and how they can be played out. If you have posted a computer analysis (clearly not tablebase) without at least playing through it then you're wasting your time frankly, as long computer lines have an increasing likelihood of mistakes.

Apr-04-21  goodevans: <opus: 48...Kf5 49. Rf8+ Kg4 [...] 77. Kg8 Qc8#>

If this analysis were right (which it isn't) then black could have won with the game's 48...Kf3 simply by playing 49...Kg4.

Apr-04-21  goodevans: ... or indeed white could have repeated the position with 48...Kf5 49.Rf8+ Kg4 <50.Re8>.
Apr-04-21  RandomVisitor: After 48...Rd1+ white has nothing better than 49.Ke4 Re1+ 50.Kd3, where black can then play 50...Kg3.

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<38/47 03:00 -48.01 49.Ke4 Re1+ 50.Kd3 Kg3> 51.Rf8 g4 52.Rf6 Kh4 53.Kd2 Kg5 54.Rf7 Re4 55.Kd3 Rf4 56.Rg7+ Kh4 57.Ke3 Rf6 58.Ke4 Kg3 59.Rg8 Rf1

38/46 03:00 -49.05 49.Ke3 Kg3 50.Rh8 g4 51.Rf8 Re1+ 52.Kd3 Kg2 53.Kd2 Ra1 54.Ke3 g3 55.Rg8 Kh2 56.Ke4 Re1+ 57.Kf3 Rf1+ 58.Ke4 Ra1 59.Rb8 Re1+

38/45 03:00 -152.54 49.Kc4 Kf5 50.Kc3 g4 51.Rg8 Kf4 52.Re8 g3 53.Rg8 Kf3 54.Rf8+ Ke3 55.Rg8 Rg1 56.Rg5 g2 57.Rg3+ Kf2 58.Rg7 Rd1 59.Rf7+ Ke3

Apr-04-21  Walter Glattke: Really stockfish? 50.Kd3 Kg3> 51.Kd2 Re4 52 .Kd3 Kf3 53.d5
Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <Walter Glattke: Really stockfish? 50.Kd3 Kg3> <51.Kd2 Re4 52 .Kd3 Kf3 53.d5> 53....exd5 -+
Apr-04-21  rogl: To get all relevant variations go to Lichess and plug this position in.
Apr-04-21  Walter Glattke: 53.Kc4 g4 *wins
Apr-04-21  mel gibson: In the actual game it ended up a draw!

My first move agreed with Stockfish 13.

48... Kg3

(48. .. Kg3
(♔g4-g3 ♖e8-f8 g5-g4 ♖f8-f6 ♔g3-h4 ♔d3-d2 ♔h4-g5 ♖f6-f7 ♖e1-e4 ♔d2-d3 ♖e4-f4 ♖f7-g7+ ♔g5-h4 ♔d3-e3 ♖f4-f6 ♔e3-e4 ♔h4-g3 ♔e4-e5 ♖f6-h6 ♔e5-e4 ♖h6-h1 ♔e4-d3 ♖h1-d1+ ♔d3-e3 ♖d1-e1+ ♔e3-d2 ♖e1-e4 ♖g7-d7 ♔g3-g2 ♔d2-d3 ♖e4-e1 ♔d3-d2 ♖e1-a1 ♔d2-e2 ♖a1-a6 ♔e2-e3 g4-g3 ♔e3-f4 ♖a6-a1 ♖d7-c7 ♖a1-d1 ♔f4-e4 ♖d1-h1 ♖c7-g7 ♖h1-h6 ♔e4-e3 ♔g2-h3 ♔e3-f4 g3-g2 ♔f4-f3 ♖h6-f6+ ♔f3-e4 ♔h3-h2 ♖g7-h7+ ♔h2-g1 ♔e4-e5 ♖f6-g6 ♖h7-f7 ♔g1-h2 d4-d5 e6xd5 ♖f7-h7+ ♔h2-g1) +8.00/48 332)

score for Black +8.00 depth 48.

Apr-04-21  1stboard: If Black plays 48 ... Kg3

I play as White 49 ... Kd2 and now what for Black ?

49 ... Re4 ( only move ?? )

White 50 Kd3 = draw

I just don't see a win here for black or White

Premium Chessgames Member
  chrisowen: Demarcate ivory Kf3 eoyore ivor abled it axled it ok gavotte ivory Kg3 ears abled it leeway livid gobble gack 1 2 bruv demarcate guv i ok plonks quipper quibble jewels ivory enough it hacks cuffy fave its merry aids vigil bonk putz its chew waxed it ok vast ivor gobble fact gack draw flinch cuff eg tots bruv adds deluge me iota vigils fond ivory it hi mystery Kg3 ubas Kf3 bottle;
Premium Chessgames Member
  agb2002: Black is one pawn ahead.

Black's plan is to support the advance of the g-pawn. This suggests Kf3, Kg3 and Kh3.

In the case of 48... Kf3 49.Rf8+ Kg3 (49... Kg2 50.Rg8) 50.Rf6 White would try to win the e-pawn, trade the rook for the g-pawn and force the trade of the black rook for the d-pawn.

In the case of 48... Kh3 49.Kd2 White would to try to dislodge the black rook from the e-file to bring the king to stop the g-pawn.

This leaves 48... Kg3. For example, 49.Kd2 Re4 50.Kd3 Kf3 51.Rf8+ Rf4 looks winning.

Premium Chessgames Member
  drollere: i chose Kg3 because the pawn got to march, baby. but i didn't see how that would lead to a win.
Apr-04-21  farticchio: [Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "?"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "0-1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "

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1... Kg3 2. Rf8 g4 3. Rf6 Kh4 4. Kd2 Kg5 5. Rf7 Re4 6. Kd3 Rf4 7. Rg7+ Kh4 8. Ke3 Rf6 9. Ke4 Kg3 10. Ke5 Rh6 11. Ke4 Rh1 12. Rg6 Re1+ 13. Kd3 Kf4 14. Kd2 Re4 15. Rf6+ Kg5 16. Rf8 g3 17. Kd3 Rf4 18. Rg8+ Kh4 19. Rh8+ Kg4 20. Ke3 Rf6 21. Rg8+ Kh3 22. Rh8+ Kg2 23. Rg8 Kh2 24. Rh8+ Kg1 25. Rh4 g2 26. Ke2 Rf2+ 27. Ke1 e5 28. dxe5 Rf5 29. Re4 Kh2 30. Rg4 g1=Q+ 31. Rxg1 Rxe5+ 32. Kf1 Rf5+ 33. Ke2 Kxg1 34. Ke3 Ra5 35. Ke4 Kf1 36. Kd4 Ke2 37. Ke4 Rh5 38. Kd4 Kf3 39. Kd3 Rh4 40. Kd2 Rd4+ 41. Kc2 Ke2 42. Kc3 Re4 43. Kc2 Re3 44. Kc1 Kd3 45. Kb2 Kd2 46. Kb1 Kc3 47. Ka1 Kb3 48. Kb1 Re1# 0-1 Always Lomonosov tablebases...

Apr-04-21  Walter Glattke: Of course, my line with 53. d5 was a blackout, my answer was not submitted there.
Apr-04-21  Walter Glattke: In the stockfish analysis black wins the race after Rh6-f6 Re7 Kh2 Rxe6 Rxe6+ g3 d5 g2 d6 g1Q d7 where the books show a technique, that only c-pawn or a-pawn could reach a stale mate then.
Apr-04-21  Walter Glattke: *or h- and f-pawn, wKb8 wPc7 Qb6+ Kc8?? no, Ka8 Qxc7 stale mate
Apr-04-21  Walter Glattke: Correction: after Rf6-h6 in the stockfish line.
Premium Chessgames Member
  Breunor: Al Wazir,

48 ... Kg3 d5,

not 48 e5, but

49 .. Rd1 ch 50 Ke2 Rxd5 51 Rxe6 Rf5 and black has the Lucena position.


48 .. Kg3 49 Kd2 Re4 is the correct move but it isn't a draw.

For example, 50 Kd3 Kf3 wins pretty easily, the g pawn is headed to a queen and the black rook can block any checks.

Stockfish gives:

1) -16.12 (27 ply) 49...Re4 50.Rf8 g4 51.Kd3 Rf4 52.Ra8 Kf3 53.Ra1 g3 54.Rf1+ Kg4 55.Rg1 Rf2 56.Ke3 Rb2 57.Ke4 g2 58.Kd3 Kg3 59.Kc3 Kh2 60.Ra1 Rf2 61.Ra8 g1=Q 62.Rh8+ Kg2 63.Rg8+ Kf1 64.Rc8 Qg3+ 65.Kb4 Rb2+ 66.Kc5 Qa3+ 67.Kc6 Rc2+ 68.Kb6 Qb4+ 69.Ka6 Rxc8

Premium Chessgames Member
  An Englishman: Good Evening: Well, solved it. Bit of a surprise. Another 5/7 week, but solved both weekend puzzles--and flubbed Thursday and Friday.

On to Monday!

Premium Chessgames Member
  Willber G: My first Sunday solve for some time.
Premium Chessgames Member
  DaltriDiluvi: Just to sum up, 48. Re8? loses and 48.- Kf3? fails to win.
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