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Later Kibitzing> |
Apr-10-23
 | | DaltriDiluvi: <HeMateMe: didn't Gelfand lose a 19 move WC game against Anand? I seem to remember something like that.> Yes, indeed. Here's the game:
Anand vs Gelfand, 2012 |
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| Apr-10-23 | | VerySeriousExpert: This Game 2 of Ding-Nepomniachtchi Match isn't E10 or D27, it is A00 (Clemenz opening) by transposition: there is no serious reason for Mr. Ding's 4.h3. It's analogously to the game Rapport-Duda, FIDE Candidates, 2022 ( my comments of 2022 are here: Rapport vs Duda, 2022 ), which isn't C47/C46 or something else: it is C20 (Bednikova opening) by transposition: there is no serious reason for Mr. Rapport's 8.b3. An opening is a sum of positions, not a sequence of them. |
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Apr-10-23
 | | Sally Simpson: People still think 4.h3 was a touch move mistake as in Unzicker vs Fischer, 1960 Go Here: https://chess24.com/en/watch/live-t... Press on play and watch from 4:14 onwards. Ding without any hesitation plays 4.h3 and writes down the move. Thanks Teyss,
So you are a reader of my column/blog/hobby/therapy... https://www.redhotpawn.com/chess-bl... If you look at the time it was posted 14:00 you will see I was putting it all together including the screen grabs during the game adding one line thoughts. I always note up with just one line. The idea is we are in a pub and I'm playing out a game chatting about it. Nice of them to call me in on a rest day. All the doctors are on strike in England I've been waiting all day for a call saying it's cancelled as Scottish doctors go south for the serious cases (road accidents etc..) But no. I suspect they will get someone wandering about the car park to open me up and have a good poke about. |
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| Apr-10-23 | | stone free or die: I didn't watch the after game remarks, but I believe somebody here commented that Ding mentioned 4...h3 as a move suggested by one of his seconds. Giri commented almost immediately that it was an effective move at taking Nepo out of his favorite openings against 1.d4, commenting that after 4...dxc4 it was essentially a QGA - a variation Nepo rarely if ever plays (well, until today). Nepo handled it well(*), much like Capa's handling of the first Marshall Attack - i.e. a pretty complete surprise (see Nepo's face in the seconds after the move!), which is handled otb almost perfectly. Suggesting 4.h3 was a "mouse-slip" or a "finger-slip" has all the hallmarks of your sense of humor, well, my estimation of your humor. A clear prank, just believable enough to catch a few of the unwary. * * * * *
(*) Though Giri did use a break to deep-dive, perhaps with an engine(?), to find that 4...dxc4 isn't the most "principled" reply to 4.h3), |
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Apr-10-23
 | | tamar: These losses seem to shatter Ding Loren. Nepo found a reasonable way to play against 4 h3, but at the press conference Ding revealed he missed 12…gxf6 and 18…f5 Both are the most aggressive moves in the position, and should be expected when you face Nepomniachti. Maybe playing from the rest area makes him liable to these blind spots. |
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| Apr-10-23 | | BxChess: <VerySeriousExpert:
An opening is a sum of positions, not a sequence of them.>Perhaps I am being overly literal but this puzzles me. You can have a sequence of positions, and you can have a sequence of moves. A sequence of moves added to a position gives a sequence of positons. But one cannot sum (add) positions together. Perhaps you have in mind transpositions and mean that there is more to an opening than the position at a given move number. The exact sequence of moves that arrive at that position determines the decision branches that each player can choose to follow in the lead up. Transposing some moves may mean a player makes a different decision that prevents the position from arising. No doubt this is part of the reason why there can be disputes over the proper ECO code for games in which the same position occurs. |
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| Apr-10-23 | | stone free or die: Did Ding mention why he thought so long for his 12th move? . |
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Apr-10-23
| | tamar: Ding only said he expected 12…Qxf6 and was going to play 13 e4. Thinking so long and not seeing 12…gxf6 as the main move makes me think he was already on his own, and out of prep. |
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| Apr-10-23 | | SChesshevsky: <Thinking so long and not seeing 12...gxf6 as the main move...> Appears Ding isn't thinking nearly as well as he's capable of. Of course the pressure of the match has something to do with it. But I have a theory as to why the effect might be magnified. But I think he gains a lot of respect for the way he's handling the post games. Especially when he's clearly in distress. Hopefully, he can settle in and show some of the good chess that everyone knows he can play. |
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| Apr-11-23 | | stone free or die: Thanks for the followup <tamar>. <Ding> got caught out of prep with his out of prep opening. A bit of poetic justice, in some kinda fashion I think. |
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Apr-11-23
 | | An Englishman: Good Evening: Playing a Black defense with a move in hand doesn't seem like a bad idea, but 4.a3 would have served better. After 4...b6; 5.Nc3 we have a QID with which Black has little experience. The same holds true of 4...c5; 5.e3,Nc6; 6.Nc3,a6 with a Semi-Tarrasch. However, Nepo *does* have experience with the Semi-Slav and probably would have played 4...c6. While 4.h3 hardly qualifies as a losing move, White could have done much better in the opening preparation. According to the CG database, Nepo has rarely faced a Catalan, whereas Ding Lien has 46 games in the DB. |
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Apr-11-23
 | | WannaBe: I was wondering about the 4. h3 move, so I went back to page 1 and read the earlier comments. In'r'sting. |
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| Apr-11-23 | | SChesshevsky: <Nepo has rarely faced a Catalan...> Think it is one of the main expected openings from Ding and Carlsen went for it twice in the last WC match. Probably Nepom's well prepared. Think Ding got the QGA he wanted with 4. h3. But from the press conference sounded like he was playing for a win. Willing to accept losing. As think he said he passed on 12. Nxc5 as too drawing. Appears strange to expect that from an opening a tempo down. Kind of implies Nepom would be totally lost in a QGA. Think Ding was surprised by 11...Na5. Expecting something more sedate like 11...cxd4 or 11...Nxe4 with a chance to outplay. Given that, Ding might've been better off with a dxc5 line. Probably 8. dxc5 Qxd1 9. Rxd1 Bxc5. And hope to outplay him from there. I've lost enough games as black from there with whites B's usually better in the endgame. |
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| Apr-11-23 | | RookFile: This is a sub par game for world championship standards, to say the least. |
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Apr-12-23
 | | FSR: <An Englishman: . . . White could have done much better in the opening preparation. According to the CG database, Nepo has rarely faced a Catalan, whereas Ding Lien has 46 games in the DB.> No doubt Nepo expected the Catalan and would have been armed to the teeth. So Ding decided to surprise him with 4.h3. Didn't work too well, obviously. Maybe next time he's White he'll try Grob's Attack. |
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Apr-12-23
| | An Englishman: Good Evening: Agreed, Nepo must have prepared something v. the Catalan; not preparing a defense or two would have constituted foolishness. Nonetheless, an old American saying goes "You gotta dance with who brung ya." At the highest levels, the Catalan has done a lot of "brunging." Can't deny, however, that a Grob would look extremely cool... |
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Apr-12-23
 | | Check It Out: Too soon :) |
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Apr-12-23
 | | HeMateMe: Nice pun! Very smooth. Remember to sweep up... |
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| Apr-12-23 | | saturn2: Maybe someone can form a pun based on Yin and Yang. like Win for Ian, Ding is done etc |
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Apr-12-23
| | HeMateMe: I think the 'Ding Dong witch' pun has already been used. Been there, done that... |
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Apr-12-23
 | | MissScarlett: Sorry for the typo, pun should, of course, be <Bill...>. |
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Apr-12-23
 | | Teyss: "Bill in a China Shop" would have been a better pun. It's probably based on the fact <Messiah> calls Nepo like that, but is there a valid reason? If so, excellent pun. If not, decent coded pun as for V Kovalev vs Carlsen, 2022. Alright, we've been through this game inside out so let's discuss topics not addressed before:
What do you think about Carlsen forfeiting?
Is this a real WC or a match between two top players?
Who do you think will win the WC?
What do you think about 4.h3_?
Do you have dental implants?
(It's an IQ test. Anybody answering scores less than 20.) |
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Apr-12-23
| | Sally Simpson: Good Pun. |
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Apr-12-23
 | | OhioChessFan: I like the pun. When Nepo plays an opening novelty, "Bill in a China Shop" will be expected. |
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| Apr-12-23 | | technical draw: I wasted my time reading the New York Post and didn't know this game was live. What a jerk! |
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Kibitzing
sac: 20...Rxg5