< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 5 OF 5 ·
|Apr-11-07|| ||gambitfan: <justdig> just have a look at the diagram below... it answers at least^partly to your question...|
|Apr-11-07|| ||gambitfan: If you compare <King's Indian Attack> and <King's Indian Defence>, the first one is in my opinion weaker for the following reason.|
In KIA, the moves <g3> and <♗g2> are too early, which allows Black to answer <... d5>, then <... c6> and build a <strong pawn diagonal> in front of the fianchettoed Bishop.
In the KID, White have already done <c4> and cannot oppose to the fianchettoed Bishop a strong pawn chain <b2 c3 d4>. In the KID the fianchettoed Bishop can exert stronger pressure towards the weak square <b2>.
|May-13-07|| ||suenteus po 147: Question for players of 1.Nf3, 1.c4, and 1.d4: Should I consider the King's Indian Attack as an addition to my fledgling opening repertoire? This question comes with context: Recently I played (and won) a game on the black side of a Catalan opening. Despite my win, however, I immediately saw the dynamic positional (and tactical!) chances the opening gave white. I began using the Catalan against equal or higher rated opponents and surprised myself by getting into winning positions time and again. After a few games, a few opponents tried a King's Indian Defense and I unwittingly found myself playing the King's Indian Fianchetto variation, but also still winning. It seems that the Nf3...g3 setup is working for me positionally in the opening. However, one should never let his repertoire become confined to one or two exact opening positions. Would these successes with the Catalan and the King's Indian Fianchetto for white make the King's Indian Attack a logical next step for my opening repertoire, or is it in opposition to the kinds of positions I get out of the previously mentioned openings? If the King's Indian Attack is not the way to go, could you suggest something that would work in a Catalan/KID Fianchetto like setup? I appreciate all input on this question.|
|May-13-07|| ||nescio: <suenteus po 147> Your recent successes may not have anything to do with the way you set up your games. It's entirely possible that you are simply becoming a better player. |
1.Nf3 and 2.g3 is a good choice and can lead to all kinds of positions, but if you want to know if it suits you, just play over quickly some games (50 or so) and see if you like them. I suggest you take out the repertoire explorer and look at the games of Barcza, Smyslov, Romanishin or Vaganian to name a few.
But if it gives you confidence, why not stick with 1.d4, 2.c4 and 3.g3 for a while? In principle you can play a variation for a long time unless you become aware of a refutation or the continuous repetition makes you blind to the differences in nuance.
|May-13-07|| ||suenteus po 147: <nescio: It's entirely possible that you are simply becoming a better player.> Thanks, I certainly hope that is true with all the time I keep putting into this game!|
<1.Nf3 and 2.g3 is a good choice and can lead to all kinds of positions> Many players (both here and of course certain GMs) have said the same thing. I'm curious to know why you think that is (and what the benefit of "all kinds of positions" is). However, that's probably a theoretical discussion best left for later.
<but if you want to know if it suits you, just play over quickly some games (50 or so) and see if you like them> I don't think I've ever heard this advice for sampling an opening before. I'm also curious as to your definition of 'like.' For instance, I 'like most of Petrosian's games, but I don't really understand many of them :)
<I suggest you take out the repertoire explorer and look at the games of Barcza, Smyslov, Romanishin or Vaganian to name a few.> This sounds like instantly good advice. I'm becoming a devout follower of Smyslov's style and approach to play, and Vaganian is just too cool for school. Don't know much about Barcza or Romanishin, though.
<In principle you can play a variation for a long time unless you become aware of a refutation or the continuous repetition makes you blind to the differences in nuance.> I guess I'm paranoid about the first potential drawback, and I'm guilty of the second in a couple of other openings of mine. However, it has been giving me confidence, so perhaps I should stick with it for now. Thanks for your detailed response!
|May-13-07|| ||nescio: <suenteus po 147> <<1.Nf3 and 2.g3 is a good choice and can lead to all kinds of positions> Many players (both here and of course certain GMs) have said the same thing. I'm curious to know why you think that is (and what the benefit of "all kinds of positions" is).>|
I meant that the position of the central pawns isn’t determined immediately. After 1.Nf3, 2.g3, 3.Bg2, 4.0-0 you can still choose between set-ups with i) d4, c4 and Nc3 ii) e4, d3, c3 and Nbd2, iii) c4, d3, Nc3 and e3 or even e4, iiii) c4, e3, b3 and Bb2 and possibly a few others. Which one you select will depend on your preference, your mood and on the opponent’s build-up.
<<but if you want to know if it suits you, just play over quickly some games (50 or so) and see if you like them> I don't think I've ever heard this advice for sampling an opening before.>
I don’t know any other way. If you want to know how to play a certain opening you’ll have to see how the game might develop, looking at various characteristics, such as which squares often become strong or weak, which side attacks where frequently, and so on.
<< I'm also curious as to your definition of 'like.' For instance, I 'like most of Petrosian's games, but I don't really understand many of them :)>
I’m sorry, I have no other word. Some positions “feel good” and others don’t, even if the theoreticians give a different verdict. Petrosian is actually a good example. His games give me the impression that he didn’t care much about openings or middlegame theories and that he had his own highly individual ideas. That's why we often understand little of his moves at first glance.
<<I suggest you take out the repertoire explorer and look at the games of Barcza, Smyslov, Romanishin or Vaganian to name a few.> This sounds like instantly good advice. I'm becoming a devout follower of Smyslov's style and approach to play, and Vaganian is just too cool for school. Don't know much about Barcza or Romanishin, though.>
You seperated the two sentences which were in one paragraph. You can of course select the games of certain players to “sample” the opening. I mentioned these players specifically because they represent several different approaches.
|May-13-07|| ||diemjay: I just finished reading KIA: Starting Out, by John Emms. It is part of the Everyman Chess series. Great stuff. I'm a KIA convert and I intend to use it OTB as much as I can. |
|May-13-07|| ||ganstaman: <<I suggest you take out the repertoire explorer and look at the games of Barcza, Smyslov, Romanishin or Vaganian to name a few.> This sounds like instantly good advice. I'm becoming a devout follower of Smyslov's style and approach to play, and Vaganian is just too cool for school. Don't know much about Barcza or Romanishin, though.>|
There is the Barcza System, right? Which is something that starts like this. I don't know precisely what it is, but if he got his name on it he must be good to look at.
Aha! Gedeon Barcza
"The Opening 1.♘f3 d5 2.g3 known as the Barcza System is named after him."
|May-17-07|| ||diemjay: <gambitfan: 1. g3 d5 2. f3 f6 3. g2 c6 4. O-O g4 5. d3 bd7 6. bd2 e5 7. e4|
In conclusion, I am not so much worried with the King's Indian Attack... Only an exceptionally brilliant player like Bobby Fischer or Garri Kasparov can afford to play this opening with reasonable winning chances...>
I'm not a brilliant player. However, I do enjoy playing the KIA.
I don't really feel that your 'example' opening is long enough to demonstrate the scope of KIA developement. There is tension just below the surface of this attack.
So...watch out for the Loch Ness monster.
|Jan-07-09|| ||barrybackus: I am exploring the KIA. I find it really balanced for my level of play against most of black's openings. |
I had a question regarding middlegame development though.
After you have your KIA set up...what is the best way for white to identify which side he should develop? What should I be looking for to advance on the Kingside? What about the Queenside? Any advice and sample PGNs would be very very appreciated.
|Jul-01-09|| ||WhiteRook48: I thought the King's Indian Attack wasn't initiated until white plays d2-d3 and e2-e4|
|Jul-05-09|| ||WhiteRook48: does anyone have an idea of how I should play as White after 1. Nf3 d5 2. g3 Nf6 3. Bg2 Bf5 4 0-0 Nc6? what gets the advantage?|
|Jul-06-09|| ||MaxxLange: <WhiteRook48> I don't see much advantage for White|
Black is refusing to play into a pure reversed KID by not playing ...c5. His move...Nc6 of course has the primitive threat of ...Nb4, which White can handle easily enough.
4...Nc6!? also avoids the standard kind of Lasker setup against the KIA or Reti, which would be 4...c6 (the "London System" is Black's anti-Reti reversed, actually)
So, the road to fighting for an advantage may be to ask, what is wrong with Black blocking his c pawn? What kind of situation will make the Nc6 sort of useless, or make Black need to push his c-pawn but not be able to push it?
At this point in the game, you are totally uncommitted, except to making a KID kingside with White. You need to move a center pawn pretty soon...what center configurations are good for the Nc6? avoid those!
|Jun-06-10|| ||JoustingWindmills: Diemjay, if you like Emms KIA book, try Don Maddux's KIA! His experience as a teacher really helps in the book organization IMHO. He starts with KIA approaches agains the French, CK, Sicilian et al and then goes into various structures for both black and white. Too, it has the training DB along with 21,000 gameas. I consider this book, along with Oleinikov's QID to be the best opening presentations around. They are both available in the Chessbase ebook format too.|
Sorry if I sound like a commercial but this cd is a cut above.
|Jan-10-11|| ||philchess: How do I get into the King's Indian Attack after 1.g3 e5?|
|Jan-10-11|| ||Sastre: <philchess: How do I get into the King's Indian Attack after 1.g3 e5?> Here are some King's Indian Attack games starting with 1.g3 e5 - http://www.chessgames.com/perl/ches.... They should give you an idea of the different variations.|
|Sep-08-11|| ||Elrathia Kingi: A recent Ponomariov-Bruzon game (Ponomariov vs L Bruzon, 2011) featured 6...a5 and 7...a4, which seems to violate everything I have ever learned about developing pieces, not losing tempo, and paying attention to the center. What is the theory behind those moves?|
|Nov-25-11|| ||Eric Farley: This site's classification of the King's Indian Attack is not correct. The Reti-Rubinstein 1923 game, for instance, is NOT a KIA. It's a Reti-Barcza system; as a matter of fact, in his book "Masters of the Chessboard" Reti used this game as a model to show his system.
Today it's like this:
1. Nf3 d5 2.c4 it's a "pure" Reti
1. Nf3 d5 2.g3 and then c4 it's a Reti-Barcza
If there's an early c4, after g3, it's a Reti-Barcza. If there's an early d4,
it may be a Grunfeld Reversed or a Catalan. If there's an early e4, then it's a King's Indian Attack. Needless to say, transpositions in this area abound. People interested in these systems might consult Keene's good book
|Nov-25-11|| ||MaxxLange: <What is the theory behind those moves?> Black often plays to gain space on the Queenside against these systems. In the game you cite, it looks like he can get away with doing this so early because White's development is also slow.|
|Dec-21-11|| ||Penguincw: Opening of the Day
King's Indian Attack
1.♘f3 d5 2.g3
click for larger view
|Mar-10-12|| ||darshandatta: I use KIA against french defence|
|Nov-05-13|| ||yoyomama: How do I download a PGN database of all KIA games?|
|Nov-05-13|| ||WannaBe: <yoyomama> Not enough moves, too many games in DB, make one more move and select "PGN Download" on top of the games listing section.|
|Oct-29-19|| ||Chesgambit: I played Caro-kann defense every time aganist e4 ıf white play d3 Fischer vs I Ibrahimoglu, 1970
|Oct-29-19|| ||Chesgambit: play Tarrasch varition aganist French or KIA (Sugar NN lose aganist ( played e6)Tarrasch varitipn positional pawn sacrfice varition)|
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