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| Apr-22-09 | | SirChrislov: You see,in the scandinavian most people are under the impression that wht gains a tempo by playing 3.Nc3 after blk takes back with the Queen 2...Qxd5 but this is absolutely NOT true. Check this out, this is from Sigebert Tarrasch's The Game of Chess: "the truth is that wht gives up his advantage of the move by capuring at d5. you see instead of developing,say bringing a knight out, he plays 2.exd5, BUT after 2... Qxd5 3.Nc3, he REGAINS hi tempo and the game is back the way it started with wht advantage of initial move." Now let's see what Bobby Fischer has to say about the scan: "1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6(the old move 2...Qxd5 is considered weak. blk must play the modern 2...Nf6 and wht plays Bb5+ and holds on to the pawn." Now to answer Mr. MaxxLange,after 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 3.d4 After 3...Bg4(some people call it the portuguese)if you've seen IM Andrew Matrin's Centre Counter Carnage!, wht has 3 replies: Be2,Nf3 (which are "cowardly" moves as Andrew calls them because they allow blk to equalize very easily. in example, after Be2, blk plays Bxe2 followed by Qxd5 attacking g2) so the only real move wht has to go for a struggle and counter blk's excellent strategic move 3...Bg4, is the weakening move 4.f3 followed by 4...Bf5 5.Bb5+ Nbd7 6.Nc3 a6 7.Bxd7 Qxd7 and how many pieces has blk developed here? now look at wht's position with that ugly f3. great comp for blk! |
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| Apr-22-09 | | SirChrislov: by the way, what's that "great sacrificial game that brought the whole line into fashion" can you show me the game? |
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| Apr-22-09 | | MaxxLange: <SirChislov> I think it was by G Vescovi as Black, but I do not find it in the CG database. It was a game played in the late '90s. |
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| Apr-22-09 | | SirChrislov: there's one game against Caldeira but it doesn't feature the line. too bad. |
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| May-05-09 | | WhiteRook48: does white have the option of playing 2. e5? |
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| May-16-09 | | blacksburg: <does white have the option of playing 2. e5?> yes, but it's not a very good option. black just plays 2...c5, and we're in an advance-french/caro-kann setup that is better for black than usual. black will play ...Bf5 and ...e6, or if white plays Nf3, black has the option of ...Bg4. and in contrast to the caro, black has played ...c5 in one tempo, rather than ...c6 and ...c5. |
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| May-18-09 | | SirChrislov: Most of my opponents at the club play the timid, tempo wasteing 2. e5 to get me "out of book" but yes, after c5!,Bf5, etc. blk breaks no sweat. |
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| May-18-09 | | MaxxLange: I don't care if IM Andrew Martin calls me names: 4. f3 looks awful, and I won't play it |
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| May-18-09 | | blacksburg: <SirChrislov> and all you <2...Nf6 guys> - how do you deal with 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Nf6 <3.Bb5+>? seems annoying to me. |
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| May-18-09 | | I Like Fish: let...
it...
be... |
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| May-19-09 | | James Demery: If one of the top players like Topalov , Kramnik , or Carlsen were to start playing this defense it might give it some credibility. There must be a reason why the top players don`t play this defense and I think it has something to do with the fact that at the top of this page it says White wins 45.1% of the time. I should think that would make it difficult for Black to get any kind of advantage. Reinfeld referred to this Defense as "dubious" in one of his books in the `50`s . They must have been onto it even back then. Does anyone know of any games where the top players have used this Defense? |
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| May-19-09 | | MaxxLange: <James Demery> Reinfeld's remarks from 50 years ago aren't really that good a guide to the openings today. A lot has happened since then... The Scandanavian got a big boost of the kind you are asking about from this game: Kasparov vs Anand, 1995
Although White won, most people thought Anand came out of the opening well. |
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| May-19-09 | | James Demery: Maxx: Is it playable at the GM level? |
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| May-19-09 | | SirChrislov: <blacksburg:> <-how do you deal with 1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Nf6 <3. Bb5+?> seems annoying to me.> This move was once played by Bobby Fischer. Fischer vs V Bergraser, 1967 the usual response is 3... Bd7, but I like to catch my opponents by surprise and play a little known move that was heavely experimented with in some soviet correspondence games in the 50's and 60's and has been totally forgotten: 3... Nbd7. and according to A. Martin's latest analysis in this line, wht's lopez bishop is just a target for black: after 4. c4(main line) blk plays 4... a6 and if Ba4 5...b5! is an excellent counterattack with good comp for blk. If 5.Bxd7+, 5... Qxd7! followed by ... b5, ...Bb7, ... 0-0-0, with a K-side pwn storm and long diagonal battery with ... Qc6. |
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| May-19-09 | | MaxxLange: It seems to me that Anand, by playing it in a World Champion match against Kasparov, showed that it is playable in top level chess. Sure, Anand lost with it - but he lost games with the Sicilian and Ruy too. He lost in the middlegame, because Kasparov was stronger. |
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| May-19-09 | | MaxxLange: As for its unpopularity among GMs, I think that most top players find it to be mostly drawish but less interesting than Ruy, Petrov, Caro, Sicilian etc. |
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| May-19-09 | | MaxxLange: HOWEVER, we must be careful arguing from GM popularity in chess theory. Consider the example of Radjabov. He's credited with at least two changes in chess opening practice: he revived the King's Indian Defense, after a period of GMs avoiding it, and he played Ruy Lopez, Schliemann Defense (C63) in top tournaments. In the first case, the KID was on the outs largely because of the Bayonet Attack. The first sign was when Gazza stopped playing it - White smelled blood. When Radjabov started beating top GMs with the KID, fearing no b4 pawn thrust, we were "back in Black" In the second case, you have a side line of the Ruy that Black, according to the Tarrasch type classical view of the openings, just should not be able to play . White can barely play the risk of f4 n the King's Gambit now, after all - so how can Black possibly hit the Ruy with ...f5 at the first chance and tell the tale? |
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| May-19-09 | | MaxxLange: so, he refuted two ideas: "the KID is busted" and "the Schliemann is a coffeehouse opening" I believe that a lot of what is now considered "unplayable" is going to be the chess of the future. look at the history of chess over the last 100 years - one by one, new methods of opening the game were found. eventually we get to a kind of post-War stasis where the Chess Wizards locked in on a few openings - Sicilian, Ruy, Slav, Nimzo, KID. The Pirc/Modern crew, led by CG member Ray Keene and other upstarts, had their hash settled by the end of the 1980's, right when computers come on the horizon. For now.... |
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| May-19-09 | | SirChrislov: <James Demery>: <Does anyone know of any games where the top players have used this Defence?> Nisipeanu beat Topalov with it at Mtel Masters 2007, Kamsky, a World championship contender who lost to Karpov and recently to Topalov played it against Topalov at Corus wijk ann zee 2006, Kamsky beat Anand with B01: Anand vs Kamsky, 1994, Ivanchuk drew to Anand in a 1994 final play off, Larsen and Didishko beat Karpov with B01, Nakamura has beaten Sergey Karjakin, Alexey Dreev beat Judith Polgar in 2002 Russia vs. Rest of World, F Krudde beat Korchnoi in 1990, Radjabov drew Adams in 2002, and I drew Californian Master Robert Jamie Schloss (2199) in Feb. 2009. with 2... Nf6 Scandinavian. need more games? I got tons more, my friend. |
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| May-19-09 | | SirChrislov: <James Demery> more Scandinavian games at top GM level: Svidler vs Shirov, 1996, Kamsky vs Tiviakov, 2006, Geller vs Kotronias, 1988, Shirov vs E Dizdarevic, 2004, Kasparov vs Anand, 1995 a feast for your eyes. |
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| May-19-09 | | SirChrislov: Nunn vs Kamsky, 1995, Anand vs Lautier, 1997, Smirin vs Kurajica, 1999, Smirin vs P Ricardi, 1996, Miles vs J Hickl, 1987, and for all those of you who still think 1... d5 is inferior, look at this game played against none other than World Champion at the time, Anatoly Karpov: 1. e4 a6?!?!? result: 0 - 1 Karpov vs Miles, 1980 |
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| May-19-09 | | Poisonpawns: <SirChrislov> Its a suprise weapon,no one at the top uses it consistently for a reason.At lower levels in Chess any opening is playable.Actually you will find several games at the top levels in Alekhines Defense by Carlsen,Ivanchuk,Mamedyarov and a few others.However it is used as a suprise weapon usually.So if we are talking about
Suprises, we can add the albin counter gambit and the Budapest defense to the scandanavian as being "played" at top levels. However when we are looking at the main openings of the elite players.These are not found,that is not to make judgement on the opening,just saying that you will not see the scandanavian used as a main weapon at top levels today.Now its occasional appearances at top level, are for suprise value.After all Karpov in 1979 lost to Larsen with Scandanavian.Right now all theory in Scandanavian heavily favors white. |
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| May-19-09 | | parisattack: I suspect it is just too loose to be a regular repertoire opening at the top levels. Of course, below 2400 just about anything is OK. At that level certainly much to be said for the nice piece play black gets with the Scan. |
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| May-19-09 | | MaxxLange: look at the renewal of the Philidor and Petroff |
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| May-20-09 | | SirChrislov: <Poisonpawns> <So, if we are talking about surprises, we can add the Albin counter gambit and Budapest Defence to the Scandinavian as being "played" at top levels.>
Yes, I agree with you. the Albin and Budapest are my main weapons against 1.d4 but this is completely playable for a USCF class A. at top levels these are rarely seen. except as surprises. <Right now all theory in Scandinavian heavily favors wht.> Not true my friend. with best play, even at GM level, blk arrives at a middlegame with at least equal chances. |
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