|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Jul-26-09 | | whiteshark: OPENING OF THE DAY <Vienna Game <1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Bc4 Nxe4>>
Opening Explorer |
|
| Jul-26-09 | | whiteshark: ... OPENING OF THE DAY <Frankenstein-Dracula <1.e4 e5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Bc4 Nxe4 4.Qh5 Nd6 5.Bb3 Nc6 6.Nb5 g6 7.Qf3 f5 8.Qd5>> Opening Explorer |
|
| Aug-04-09 | | Amarande: I do not see Black's compensation for the Exchange in the F-D main line;  appears to be the clear evaluation.Ergo, Black is lost, and the 7th move at latest was the last opportunity to change his ways, since there is no real alternative to 8 ... Qe7. On move 7, the only other viable looking choice 7 ... Nf5 leads to a long and mostly forced variation (at least, from Black's point of view): 8 Qd5 Nh6 9 d4 d6 10 Bxh6 Be6 11 Qf3 Bxb3 12 Bxf8 Ba4 13 Bg7 Rg8 14 Bf6 Qd7 15 Na3 Nxd4 16 Qh3 Qxh3 17 Nxh3. Black now has two pawns for his piece, and can gain a third in two ways. But 17 ... Nxc2+ appears to lose perforce, viz. 18 Nxc2 Bxc2 19 Rc1! (A Kupferstich vs J Andreassen, 1953) So 17 ... Bxc2 is forced, whereupon White gains significant edge with 18 f4. On move 6, though, Black has very few alternatives either; the only one that does not lead to immediate loss of material is the offbeat 6 ... Ke7?! 7 Nxd6 Kxd6 8 Qxf7, after which here too White appears to have too much of an edge to really recommend the variation. Therefore, it seems best that Black avoid attempting to retain the extra pawn on move 5, and instead return it with 5 ... Be7, after which the position after both 6 Nf3 and 6 Qxe5 appears even. And so, 3 ... Nxe4 is hardly a refutation of 3 Bc4, but merely a potential psychological weapon against newer players, or intermediate players who dogmatically adhere to opening principles without question (who would dismiss 4 Qh5! as a fantasy and entertain instead 4 Bxf7+? or 4 Nxe4?). |
|
| Aug-04-09 | | blacksburg: why go into all that when 3...Nc6 is perfectly good? |
|
| Aug-04-09 | | MaxxLange: <Amarande>You don't see Black's compensation. So, you conclude Black is lost. I conclude that....you don't see Black's compensation. Have you looked at any games in this line? Maybe J Ost-Hansen vs Nunn, 1974 will help. |
|
| Aug-04-09 | | MaxxLange: It's certainly a debate, whether Black's compensation is enough for the exchange, and there is a lot of concrete analysis that I haven't seen, generated by devotees of this crazy line....it may well be that White comes out with the better chances if he can castle long, for one thing. But it's far from clear. |
|
| Aug-11-09 | | Fanacas: Nothing wrong with 3...Nc6 but 3....Nxe4 is just a little better personaly i would probaly never play 3.bc4 3.f4 is much more intresting, fierce, and porbaly a little better (alteast that is what my opening book of the vienna says) |
|
| Apr-05-10 | | FiveofSwords: White can easily lose in the mainline of the f-d variation. Easily. White may or may not be winning with perfect play, but that is not relevant. If you are black, and are not a god, and your opponent is not a god, and you want a win, this is perfect line to play. |
|
| Apr-05-10 | | FiveofSwords: peoples dismissive attitude toward the f-d vairaiton is imo just a stupid side effect of trying to let comps think for them. If they ended up being on the white side of the line in otb play, i'll put 5-1 odds on them losing...EVEN THOUGH I do think it is 'objectively' 'unsound'. I do not allow the variation when i am playing white. |
|
| May-03-10 | | Danchris: Sorry, I think
1 e4 e5 2 Nc3 Nf6 3 Bc4 Nxe4 4 Bxf7+!. |
|
| Jun-21-10 | | Amarande: <Danchris> 4 Bxf7+? has been tried and found wanting; it is in fact the worst of the three reasonable options in reply to Nxe4. After the obvious continuation 4 ... Kxf7 5 Nxe4 d5, Black has a powerful central Pawn phalanx - in fact the very one White should have been striving to obtain. In addition, Black has a very free game and the two Bishops in a position very favorable to them, while his only disadvantage is the temporary displacement of his King, something which White has not the development to take advantage of successfully. While White may be able to survive, he certainly will be on the defensive the entire game, and will have to be very careful not to get squashed as in, e.g., M Kuerschner vs Tarrasch, 1889. 4 Nxe4 is not quite as bad as White does not give away the two Bishops and Black will have only one Pawn in the center after regaining the piece (4 ... d5 5 Bd3 dxe4 6 Bxe4), but still leaves Black with the better game. Really 4 Qh5 is best, after which Black will either have to return the Pawn with 5 ... Be7 (which leads to a mostly even game) or risk the uncertainties of the F-D (as the only even remotely possible alternative is the 6 ... Ke7 variation I suggested, which really does look too risky to attempt anywhere outside, perhaps, of very fast blitz). |
|
| Jun-26-11 | | Attack77: The variation was given its name by Tim Harding in his 1975 book on the Vienna Game in which he said that the bloodthirstiness of this was such that "a game between Dracula and the Frankenstein Monster would not seem out of place." |
|
Mar-06-12
 | | Penguincw: Opening of the Day
Vienna Game
1.e4 e5 2.♘c3 ♘f6 3.c4 ♘xe4
click for larger view |
|
| May-09-13 | | Mozart72: The exact name of this C27 is Vienna Game: Stanley Variation: Modern Variation. |
|
| Sep-24-13 | | Kikoman: <Opening of the Day> Vienna Game
1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Bc4 Nxe4
click for larger view |
|
| Nov-12-13 | | Sho: I call misnomer. Frank doesn't seem cerebral. "Wolfman-Draculla" is better. Or "Frankenstein-Zombie" for 1. a3 a6 2. b3 b6 3. c3 c6 .... |
|
| Nov-12-13 | | Kikoman: <Opening of the Day> Frankenstein-Dracula Variation
1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Bc4 Nxe4 4. Qh5
click for larger viewOpening Explorer |
|
Nov-26-14
 | | Phony Benoni: The great attraction of the Frankenstein-Dracula Variation is that the vast complication afford a convenient disguise for blunders which would normally be attributed to stupidity. |
|
May-21-17
 | | chessgames.com: As the Opening of the Day is the (in)famous "Frankenstein-Dracula Attack" we set Stockfish to do some deep analysis of the positions, 2 hours long (36+ ply) at times. Perhaps this is already known to the literature, but in the mainline 1. e4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. Bc4 Nxe4 4. Qh5 Nd6 5. Bb3 
click for larger viewHere SF suggests deviating from the the popular 5...Nc6 (where White maintains a +0.96 advantage after 6.Nb5! and a number of other mate threats) but rather the quiet and lesser played 5...Be7 planning on a quick castle, even at the cost of the e5 pawn, giving us this: 
click for larger viewAnd Stockfish reckons that position to be =0.00. |
|
May-21-17
 | | MissScarlett: Known to theory? http://www.chessgames.com/perl/ches... |
|
| May-21-17 | | zanzibar: Can't <CG> do summary stats for the games in <MissS>'s link? . |
|
May-21-17
| | chessgames.com: You mean this page? Opening Explorer |
|
| May-21-17 | | zanzibar: Yes indeedy. But why not a quick one-line recap on the other page? BTW- can I input any give random FEN and find matching games? (Sorry if that's rather basic)
. |
|
May-22-17
| | chessgames.com: <can I input any give random FEN and find matching games?> Only if it is in the Opening Explorer FEN Lookup. |
|
| May-22-17 | | zanzibar: <chessgames> - ah, that's what I thought. Being able to look up games via FEN is a very handy feature in SCID. <chessgames> should consider adding such a feature too, I think. . |
|
 |
|
|
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 3 OF 3 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Kibitzing
