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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
| Jun-06-13 | | TheFocus: I changed the Wikipedia article also. |
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| Aug-30-16 | | TheFocus: Happy birthday, Constant Burille. |
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Aug-18-19
 | | jnpope: Looks like someone doing research into Burille was able to nail down a date of death and location (Gage only searched Boston/Mass death records and found nothing). https://www.ancientfaces.com/person... Gives: "Death on July 22, 1914 in Manhattan County, New York United States". It looks like this info might have been found on Ancestry.com. Does anyone have an account on that site and willing to hunt for a death certificate? |
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Aug-19-19
 | | Stonehenge: I have an account on Familysearch. They have:
<Constant F. Burille
New York, New York City Municipal Deaths, 1795-1949> Event Type: Death
Event Date: 22 Jul 1914
Birth Date: 30 Aug 186<7>
Birthplace: <Germany> |
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Aug-19-19
| | Stonehenge: They also have
<Constantinus Ferdinandus Burille>
Germany Births and Baptisms, 1558-1898
Christening Date: 20 Aug 1866
Christening Place: ROEMISCH-KATHOLISCHE,BISCHOFSDHRON,RHEINLAND,PRU-
- SSIA
Father's Name: Stephani Constantini Burille
Mother's Name: Johannae Josephinae Ertz |
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Aug-19-19
 | | Tabanus: Ancestry.com:
1854, Massachusetts, State and Federal Naturalization Records, 1798-1950: Constant Burille, b. 25 May 1837 in Grenoble France, arrived 25 Oct 1854 to Boston 1866, Germany, Select Births and Baptisms, 1558-1898: Constantinus Ferdinandus Burille, baptized 20 Aug 1866 in Roemisch-Katholische, Bischofsdhron, Rheinland, Prussia 1867, Massachusetts, Passenger and Crew Lists, 1820-1963: Constant Barille, b. abt 1836, arrived in Boston 8 Nov 1867 1878, U.S. Naturalization Record Indexes, 1791-1992: Constant Burille, b. 25 May 1837 in France, address Boston, naturalized 10 Oct 1878 1888, The Daily Northwestern (Oshkosh Wisconsin) 21 Aug 1888: <Constant Ferdinand Burille, a Paris-born Bostonian, is winning fame at chess> 1900, Boston Ward 19 census: Constant Buralle, b. May 1840 in France, immigrated 1867, Francika, wife, b. May 1840, <Constant F., son, b. Aug. 1869 in Germany>, Waiter (Restaurant) 1902, Massachusetts, Death Records, 1841-1915: Constant Burille, b. abt 1839 in France, d. 26 April 1902 in Boston 1902, Massachusetts, Marriage Records, 1840-1915: Constant F Burille, b. abt 1866 in Germany, married in Boston 7 Oct 1902 to Adelaide V MacTavish 1903, Massachusetts, Death Index, 1901-1980: Constant Burille, d. 1903 in Boston 1914, New York, Extracted Death Index, 1862-1948: Constant F Burille, b. abt 1867, d. 22 July 1914 in Manhattan, NY 1914, Find a Grave: Constant Ferdinand Burille, b. 30 Aug 1866 in Paris, d. Oct 1914 in Boston Go figure :) |
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Aug-19-19
| | Stonehenge: The findagrave entry was made by chess player elarpe. |
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Aug-19-19
| | Stonehenge: Photo here:
https://cplorg.contentdm.oclc.org/d... |
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Aug-19-19
| | Tabanus: Plain Dealer, 13 Feb 1897, p. 6:
<Constant Ferdinand Burille was born in Boston Aug. 30, 1866, and learned to play chess in 1884. He played an admirable game against many of the great masters of the sixth American congress, and for a number of years was considered to be the strongest player in New England, giving Pillsbury pawn and move as late as 1891. Last year he removed to New York and is actively engaged in business here.> |
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Aug-19-19
| | jnpope: Great work guys. With all that info I was able to nail a death certificate number. Certificate Number: 22234
Date of Death: 22 Jul 1914
Place of Death: Manhattan, New York, USA
It's looking more and more like he died in July and the news didn't find it's way into the American Chess Bulletin until October 1914 (which makes sense that people would then assume he died in October). |
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Aug-20-19
| | Tabanus: Yes.. probably July 1914. I also think he's the one baptized 1866 in Bischofsdhron (see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morbach), cf. the 1900 census (born in "Germany"). But parents names (Constant & Francika in 1900, Stephani Constantini Burille & Johannae Josephinae Ertz in 1866) don't exactly match. |
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Aug-20-19
| | Tabanus: 1870 census Needham Norfolk Massachusetts:
Constant Barille, 32, Domestic Servant, b. in France
Francis <Ertz>, 30, Domestic Servant, b. in Prussia |
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Aug-20-19
| | Tabanus: Parents are in Massachusetts Death Records, Boston: Constant Burille, 63, 73½ Centre St. Calvary, Barkeeper, born in France, died 28 April 1902 of Pul. Phthisis (Chr.) (= tuberculosis) Francisca Burille, maiden name Herse, 67?, born in Germany, 12 Green St. Calvary, died 28 July 1903 of tuberculosis. |
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Mar-15-21
 | | MissScarlett: In anticipation of the first <Anglo-American Cable Match>, the <New York Tribune> of March 8th 1896, p.20, carried mini-profiles of all the players. <Constant Ferdinand Burille was born in Boston, August 30, 1866, and learned to play chess in 1884. He played admirable chess against many of the strongest players of the Sixth American Congress, and for a number of years was considered to be the strongest player in New-England, giving Pillsbury pawn and move as late as 1891. He is actively engaged in mercantile business in Boston, but is enthusiastically devoting himself to preparation for the coming match.> Compare with Constant Ferdinand Burille (kibitz #15). The point is that the respective teams of the cable matches were supposed to be restricted to native-born players. Which means that Burille - whether he was born in France or Germany - should not have been qualified. If so, was Burille alone responsible for the deception, or were members of the American team and/or the press complicit in this outrage? As America won the first contest on the strength of Burille's defeat of Bird (1st Anglo-American Cable Match (1896)) I believe it's time that this result was officially reversed. |
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Dec-16-22
| | jnpope: <<MissScarlett:> If so, was Burille alone responsible for the deception, or were members of the American team and/or the press complicit in this outrage?> Burille's father was naturalized in 1878 making Burille the child of a naturalized citizen. I'm not sure how U.S. immigration law worked in the 19th century, but I don't think C. F. Burille was ever naturalized himself (perhaps it was unnecessary), which makes me think something was afoot that legally made Burille a "native" citizen. So, perhaps, Burille was allowed to play due to some parental+infant immigration/naturalization loophole while adult immigrants who became citizens of their adopted country were still barred (i.e. Steinitz, Lasker, Albin, Lipschutz)? On a side note, John Townsend also suspects James Mason may have been born in the United States based upon the census evidence... https://www.chesshistory.com/winter... (last entry). So his involvement in the 6th and 7th matches may be problematic? |
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Dec-16-22
| | MissScarlett: Technicality, schmechnicality....
<Constant Ferdinand Burille was born in Boston....> |
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Dec-16-22
| | jnpope: <Constant Ferdinand Burille was born in Boston....> could just be what he was told growing up and what he repeated (I think Zukertort had the same problem). I don't have any memories of my own birth/location, all I have to go on are some government documents that disagree with each other. |
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Jun-28-25
 | | Sally Simpson: The wiki link under the players https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Const... says he was born in Paris but adds another source says Boston - we currently have Prussia. |
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Jun-29-25
| | jnpope: Ok. I'm tired of this. Time to sort this out.
The 1900 US Census definitely gives his birthplace as Germany (as <Tabanus> stated years ago). His father, Constant, was born in France (as where his parents), and his mother, Francika, was born in Germany (as were her parents).I just found him in the City of Boston Marriages Register. Constant F Burille (age 36) married Adelaide V MacTavish (age 31) on 7 October 1902. Constant's job was a clerk, Adelaide's job is a cashier. Constant was born in Germany. Adelaide in New Brunswick (I'm assuming New Jersey). His parents are given as Constant Burille and Francoise Ertz. Marriage year minus age (1902-36=1866) indicates to me that the 1869 birth year in the 1900 Census was just a mistake as is his immigration year of 1876 (being that his parents are listed as immigrating in 1867; probably just a transposition of digits). His sister Rene Burille, died July 7, 1898; age 20 years 2 months 5 days. Her cause of death listed is "Pul. Phthisis" (same as her father four years later). To remove all doubt: Father is Constant Burille from France, Mother is Fredereka Ertz from Germany. |
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Jun-29-25
| | jnpope: The birthdate of "August 30, 1866" comes from the press. I found it in an article regarding the US Cable Match team, <New York Daily Tribune>, 1896.03.08, p20, which also states he was born in Boston, MA USA. The New Orleans <Times-Democrat>, 1888.07.08, p16, states he was born in Paris. The aforementioned 1900 US Census gives his birth month as "Aug" so that's probably correct. And I suspect the day of the 30th is also correct. I am also thinking that Constantinus Ferdinandus Burille converted to Catholicism before the birth of his child and it was he who was baptized on 20 Aug 1866, with his father being Stephani Constantini Burille and mother Johannae Josephinae Ertz that <Stonehenge> found. This would also seem to indicate that Constantinus Ferdinandus Burille (the father of our chess player) had married a relative of his own mother (probably a cousin). |
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Jun-29-25
| | jnpope: I'm only guessing here, but I suspect that Bischofsdhron was his mother's hometown and assuming that it was his father who was getting baptized there days before the presumed date of Constant's birth it presupposes that Constant was born there (which seems to fit with the whole born in Germany thing found in US government documents). |
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Jun-29-25
| | Sally Simpson: Hi JNP,
I see now looking through the thread it was an issue with a past. Sorry to rake over old coals, I was looking at one of recent posted games and flicked about for some more info on Burille. I followed the Edward Winter link at the bottom of Burille's wiki page C.N. 4050 and him solving 60 two movers in under an hour.
Mr. Winter also appears to follow the Boston or Paris birthplace theme. |
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Jun-29-25
| | jnpope: Not a problem. Sometimes the kibitz data gets lost in the noise of other posts and things need to be repeated. I'd trust the research of <Stonehenge> and <Tabanus> over information found on Wikipedia every time. Although we still don't have a "lock" on his mother's first name:
Francis (1870 census Needham Norfolk Massachusetts)
Fredereka (1898 Death Record of Rene)
Francika (1900 US Census, Boston, Mass.)
Francoise (1902 Marriage record of Constant and Adelaide)
Francisca (1903 Death Record of herself)
We'd probably need to find her baptismal record (in Bischofsdhron?) to see what she was baptized under given all of the above "variants" are most likely Americanized versions of her name. |
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Jun-29-25
 | | perfidious: <jnpope....I'd trust the research of <Stonehenge> and <Tabanus> over information found on Wikipedia every time....> While not wholly rejecting Wikipedia, I'll sign that. |
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Jun-29-25
| | jnpope: Added his photo and two additional games vs Young:
F K Young vs C F Burille, 1889
C F Burille vs F K Young, 1895
Given that his sister, mother, and father all tied from tuberculosis, what are the chances that he also died from TB? |
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