Jun-17-16
 | | sachistu: Hello <martin moller> Do you have any further information about 'H Ruben'? I see earlier games from Nordisk Skaktinde where Ruben is listed both 'jr' and 'sen'. Also, Deutsche Schachzeitung 1877, p. 14 has the game Ruben-Soerensen, Copenhagen 1876 (C40 0-1 in 26) taken from Nordisk Skaktinde. DSZ lists White as 'Brüder Ruben'. Was he affiliated with the church or was DSZ trying to convey some other message? I am assuming this was H Ruben. |
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Jun-17-16
| | sachistu: re: my previous message <martin moller>, the ECO code was C25 (not C40, which occurred in another of their games). Sorry for any confusion. |
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| Dec-04-16 | | martin moller: Hello <sachistu> i don´t have any information about H.Ruben, unfortunately. |
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| Dec-04-16 | | martin moller: i have however found a tournament mentioned in Nordisk skaktidende, and both Ruben jr. and Ruben sen. are participating. Nordisk skaktidende oct. 1873 and nov.1873 |
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| Dec-04-16 | | martin moller: i also found a game in Nordisk skaktidende jan. 1875 : simul. played on 7 boards by Soren Anton Sorensen. S.A.S. - Ruben jr. 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.b4 Bxb4 5. c3 Ba5 6.d4 exd4 7.o-o d3 8.Qb3 Qf6 9.e5 Qg6 10.Ba3 Nge7 11.Nbd2 b5 12.Qxb5 Rb8 13.Qa4 o-o 14.Nh4 Qh6 15.Ndf3 Bb6 16.Bxd3 Bb7 17.Rae1 Rfe8 18.Qg4 d5 19.exd6 e.p. cxd6 20.Bc1 Qf6 21.Bxh7+ Kxh7 22.Qh5+ Kg8 23.Ng5 g6 White wins |
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| Dec-04-16 | | martin moller: The simul was played in Copenhagen 3/9-1874 |
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| Dec-04-16 | | martin moller: I have interesting news : Nordisk skaktidende 1978 gives the following : Ruben H. AND Ruben sen. indicating that Ruben H. is junior ! also there are some games played against various oponents with Ruben H. from the years 1879 and 1880 |
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Dec-05-16
 | | Tabanus: My main suspect: http://www.onlinearkivalier.dk/cid1..., since that seems to be the only candidate in the census. But did he play chess? |
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| Dec-05-16 | | martin moller: That might be Ruben junior :-) |
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| Dec-05-16 | | Paarhufer: <sachistu> wrote: <DSZ lists White as 'Brüder Ruben'. Was he affiliated with the church or was DSZ trying to convey some other message?> Brüder is the plural of Bruder (brother), and so the game in DSZ seems to be a consultation game. Thus junior and senior could also mean brothers. |
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| Dec-05-16 | | martin moller: <paarhufer> we are pretty sure it´s father and son, i´m going through the Danish church files at the moment, to see if i can find something. |
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| Dec-05-16 | | Paarhufer: <mm: we are pretty sure it´s father> Why? |
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Dec-05-16
| | Tabanus: http://www.danskfamiliesøgning.dk/c... shows the brothers Meinert and "Heiman" (must be transcription or digital error for Herman) in 1860. Meinert was the father of Harry (b. 1876), who again was the father of Karl Ruben born 1903. http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/f..., translation please. |
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| Dec-05-16 | | martin moller: <Paarhufer> We are not so sure anymore, but we are investigating matters. :-)
<Tabanus> Meinert found in the church files born 17/2-1841 Copenhagen. I´m very grateful for your help. |
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Dec-08-16
| | sachistu: Thanks <martin moller> for your response and research! And thanks to <Tabanus> for your research. And thank you <Paarhufer> for your thoughts. My reason for asking about a connection to the (Christian) church was the fact that members of the church were also avid and active chess players. In game headers, it is/was not uncommon to see the word 'Father' or 'Reverend' use. Hence, I questioned that situation e.g. Bruder (with a capital 'B'). Without wanting to dispute your theory (e.g. a consultation game), I have to say most chess-related magazines etc tend to identify a consultation game in a different way e.g. 'Person X and Allies' or in German publications 'Beratung'(or 'Beratende'). Based on what I've seen so far, it looks like this is father and son. I'll be interested to see what other information is uncovered. Again, thanks to all! |
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Dec-08-16
| | sachistu: Also, thanks <martin moller> for the game score and info. I see it in Nordisk Skaktinde 1875 p8. (game #238). |
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| Dec-09-16 | | Paarhufer: <sachistu> As a German native speaker, I can assure you that the information from the DSZ you have described and those from the index (see page xii) are by no means ambiguous. The capital 'B' has no special meaning, because all nouns are capitalised in German. If one or more clerics had been meant, their description would surely be different. And the plural indicates more than one person as White, and no additional information is needed to make it a consultation game. If someone wants to keep up the ideas of a cleric or a non-consultation game, respectively, it will be necessary to assume that the information in the DSZ is somehow wrong. A mistake is possible, but here I see no reason for it. Junior and senior are often used for father and son, but maybe this is a case of chess-playing father and sons. Or only sons, because I recall immediately two pairs of more prominent chess-playing brothers, for which this kind of distinction has been used. |
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Dec-09-16
| | sachistu: Thanks for the follow up <Paarhufer>. Your points are well taken. |
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Dec-14-16
| | Tabanus: The Ruben's were Jøde = Jewish.
I imagine that if two Rubens turned up, they could be called "brothers", whether they were father and son, real brothers, cousins, or uncle and nephew. |
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Dec-14-16
| | sachistu: Thanks for your continued research <Tabanus>. While I suppose it is possible, I do not know of cases (in chess magazines) where 'jr' and 'sr' meant something other than father and son. The idea of describing an older brother as 'sen' (or younger brother as 'jr') in a game header seems dubious to me. Can anyone point to an instance of this? In the game from Nordisk Skaktinde cited by <martin moller>, the name is listed as 'Ruben jun'. To suggest this, with nothing else in the header, meant a younger brother (of whom?!) seems doubtful (in my opinion). As <Paarhufer> indicated, the term Bruder (with umlaut) is plural, I can see his point of it being a consultation game, but I do not see the basis of suggesting 'jr' and 'sen' might also mean brothers. This is one of the challenges of reconciling information from well over 100 years ago. |
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Dec-15-16
| | Tabanus: Hi <sachistu> I was thinking of the term "Brüder" only. If there was a jr and sr, then most likely father and son, but also possible (IMO) would be uncle and nephew. |
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| Oct-07-17 | | martin moller: Here is a game played in Copenhagen chessclub (Københavns skakforening 1875) Ruben junior - Hertzsprung 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Nxe5 d6 4.Nf3 Nxe4 5.d4 Be7 6.Bd3 Nf6 7.o-o Nc6 8.c4 o-o 9.a3 d5 10.h3 dxc4 11.Bxc4 Bd6 12.Bg5 Bf5 13.Nc3 h6 14.Bh4 g5 15.Bg3 Qd7 16.Ne5 Bxe5 17.Bxe5 Nxe5 18.dxe5 Qxd1 19.Raxd1 Ne4 20.Nxe4 Bxe4 21.Rfe1 Bc6 22.e6! fxe6 23.Rxe6 Kg7 24.Re7+ Kh8 25.Rxc7 and white wins. |
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Aug-05-18
| | sachistu: Hi <martin moller>. Sorry for the tardy message. This item had fallen so far down the list I just now noticed it. Do you have a source for the Ruben-Hertzspung game? |
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| Aug-15-18 | | martin moller: Hi <sachistu> Yes it is from Danish chess magazine : Nordisk skaktidende. I will check which issue. But Nordisk skaktidende ran from 1872 - 1882 as you probably allready know. Best regards Martin |
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Aug-15-18
| | sachistu: Thanks <martin moller>. I should have realized it was probably from Nordisk Skaktidende. I found it in NS 1875 p107. Sorry to trouble you. |
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Kibitzing
