< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Aug-17-13 | | torrefan: Why would it be rubbish for a man who lives in a country with hot climate to be uncomfortable staying in one with a very cold climate like Norway? And if tradition can be handed down from one generation to the next, so is fear. Revisit the centuries when white people had traded black people like cattle and maybe you'll understand why a black man would feel uncomfortable surrounded by whites. Don't demean black peoples' historical experience that way. |
|
Aug-17-13
 | | perfidious: The dross at this page emanates from <KC> above, and is compounded by <torrefan> rushing in to throw his two cents at the whole wretched business. All these 'downtrodden' people must stick together, don't you know, the better to revile the system they perceive as responsible for all their miseries, instead of trying to put things right in the real world. |
|
Aug-17-13 | | Jim Bartle: He scored 7/10 at the Olympiad in Istanbul, where there presumably were plenty of white people. His good play doesn't suggest he feared other people. |
|
Aug-17-13 | | twinlark: <No Black African player has ever gone to a second round at FIDE world cup and from this we realize why> Africa's colonial past has certainly left a legacy. Formal de-colonisation by the European powers and subsequent nominal independence by African countries have still to deal with borders that were drawn by Europeans quite arbitrarily across tribal and cultural groupings, and most importantly with the colonial infrastructure inherited by the indigenous rulers. A country set up with exploitative extractive infrastructure can either continue using that infrastructure or build new self referential infrastructure. Unfortunately, very few African countries were able to afford the transition and stuck with the old extractive infrastructure that transported raw materials to ports for export, often to their former colonial rulers. This, combined with the modern economic rationalism made it extremely difficult for African countries to rebuild and modernise, as the international globalised economy systmatically discriminated against the former colonies by raising significant tariffs to their exports, driving them further into poverty. Along comes the IMF and the World Bank to bail out these countries, and the conditions for loans generally involved the ubiquitous "structural adjustment" schemes and high interest rates that ultimately made these countries even more dependent on the First World. Combine this with corruption and bribes by corporations and most of the people of Africa have never received more than a fraction of what could have become available to them from the riches of Africa, as these were either exported, or retained by the new and indigenous neo-colonial elites. South Africa is a classic example of this process at work, as of all the countries in the region, it should have been able to raise the standard of living for its suppressed indigenous nations. Where does all this lead to?
Put simply, international competitive chess is a luxury that can only be supported with decent infrastructure...lots of chess clubs, club and regional competitions, national and continental competitions and very importantly, chess federations that can coordinate all this activity internally and across Africa and beyond. Top chess players do not normally orginate from the impoverished regions of the world. The cost of international travel, transport and accommodation and food is prohibitive for most. Even a wealthy country like Australia is way behind in chess terms as it is too costly for most to ever consider undertaking the international travel and competition so important in raising the level of talented players to grandmaster quality. Much poorer countries will have a much greater obstacle to face in this respect. Chess development in Africa, and the development of more sub-Saharan masters will only occur when these countries will be able to modernise and engage the resources necessary to support luxury sports like chess. That isn't the whole story of course, as the perennial problem of sponsorship is one that bedevils chess throughout the world... attracting the kind of sponsorship that can lift the game in Africa is proportionately far more difficult than attracting significant sponsorship even in the "Centre", ie: Russia and Eastern Europe. |
|
Aug-18-13 | | BlackFront: In 1986, FIDE awarded all active female players (excepting Susan Polgar) 100 free ELO points to make up for the historical injustice of being women. Why can't they do the same for Africans? On a sliding scale, Asians could receive 50 points, South/Latin Americans 25, Oceanians 10. |
|
Aug-18-13
 | | alexmagnus: The women lost those 100 ponts quite quickly and are now back where they were without. |
|
Aug-18-13 | | BlackFront: How much inflation did FIDE's decision inject into the rating system? |
|
Aug-18-13 | | twinlark: <alexmagnus>
<The women lost those 100 ponts quite quickly and are now back where they were without.> That's interesting! How do you know this? |
|
Aug-18-13 | | twinlark: <BlackFront> <Why can't they do the same for Africans? On a sliding scale, Asians could receive 50 points, South/Latin Americans 25, Oceanians 10.> omg... |
|
Aug-18-13
 | | perfidious: Why not give retired 2186-rated players 100 points, the better to inflate the number of CMs in the world? |
|
Aug-19-13
 | | Troller: <perfidious: Why not give retired 2186-rated players 100 points, the better to inflate the number of CMs in the world?> Hear hear! While we are at it, why not bestow all Danish master players with no elo the FM title, the better to improve chess in Larsen's home country? |
|
Aug-19-13 | | twinlark: <BlackFront>
You do know that every Aussie and Kiwi is Oceanian? |
|
Aug-19-13 | | torrefan: <Jim Bartle: He scored 7/10 at the Olympiad in Istanbul, where there presumably were plenty of white people. His good play doesn't suggest he feared other people.> He didn't play against whites in Istanbul. Mostly against players from former colonies of white nations. |
|
Aug-19-13 | | torrefan: <BlackFront: In 1986, FIDE awarded all active female players (excepting Susan Polgar) 100 free ELO points to make up for the historical injustice of being women. Why can't they do the same for Africans? On a sliding scale, Asians could receive 50 points, South/Latin Americans 25, Oceanians 10.> Brilliant. Combining in a single post the twin evils of racism and sexism. |
|
Aug-19-13 | | torrefan: <perfidious: The dross at this page emanates from <KC> above, and is compounded by <torrefan> rushing in to throw his two cents at the whole wretched business.
All these 'downtrodden' people must stick together, don't you know, the better to revile the system they perceive as responsible for all their miseries, instead of trying to put things right in the real world.> You can never put anything right in this world if you start from forgetting the past. Racism also has its doublespeak, applauding, for example, the few successful blacks and sneering at the rest. At the World Cup in 1998 nearly all the players of the champion French team were immigrants (blacks and arabs) which the country hailed as France's heroes. Yet a survey taken during the games confirmed that around 40% of the French people harbor racial prejudice. |
|
Aug-19-13
 | | perfidious: <Troller>: Why start small? Give the Danes IM, at least! |
|
Aug-19-13 | | twinlark: The cat seems to have gotten <BlackFront>'s tongue or perhaps wisely he has decided to shut up. <torrefan> correctly surmised that <BlackFront>'s suggestions are both sexist and racist and my question was designed to ascertain the extent of it, and his possible ignorance of geography. His racialist theories are well known to anyone who inhabits the Kenneth Rogoff page. Any further discussion on this and related topics should be taken to the Rogoff page, without this page having to bear any further burden of it. |
|
Aug-19-13 | | Jim Bartle: "He didn't play against whites in Istanbul. Mostly against players from former colonies of white nations." But I'm sure there were plenty of whites in the hall, in the hotel, etc. |
|
Aug-20-13 | | torrefan: He didn't mingle with them. After each game he went back straight to his hotel room for fear of being abducted and sold at the slave market. |
|
Aug-20-13 | | twinlark: <torrefan>
Really? The interview he gave at Tromsø didn't suggest or reveal that he was other than a chess player, with chess playing concerns. Do you have anything to back this assertion? And can we please move this <political> discussion to the Kenneth Rogoff page. <Jim Bartle>
Your reply was a little inconsistent. Originally, you commented that <His good play doesn't suggest he feared other people.>, and then changed ground a little to suggest that <...I'm sure there were plenty of whites in the hall, in the hotel, etc.>. This is difficult ground to traverse, and it really should be up to black Africans to speak to their experience as black Africans, not for others to debate. In any case, can we please take this discussion to the Kenneth Rogoff page. Most of <International Master Gillan Bwalya>'s first page has been occupied with politics. Admin kindly allows the Rogoff page, as it acts as a lightning rod for this kind of discussion so that player pages can be kept clear of off-topic subjects. |
|
Aug-20-13 | | Valmy: <At the World Cup in 1998 nearly all the players of the champion French team were immigrants (blacks and arabs)>
You should give a closer look to the team. It just depens what you call an immigrant: Are Youri DJORKAEV, Alain BOGHOSSIAN, Zinedine ZIDANE immigrant?
I would say no because they are born in France from persons who already had or were granted later french citizenship.
Christian KAREMBEU and Lilian THURAM are born in french islands which are french from a longer time that PERPIGNAN or NICE... they are like Hawaii to the USA (Is OBAMA an immigrant?)
Am I myself an immigrant because my grand father is born in SPAIN and had Spanish citizenship for such a long time? I don't feel like but that's an interesting debate. |
|
Aug-20-13 | | Jim Bartle: Twinlark, I didn't bring up the subject. I was simply replying to torrefan's overwrought claim that Bwalya lost to Kramnik largely because he must have feared being around so many whites. I just pointed out that he had played well in Istanbul, where there clearly were many whites present. I didn't discuss politics at all. |
|
Sep-03-13 | | messachess: It needs some rich guy to sponsor "The first African Tiger Woods of chess," promoted by, guess who. Or, some other inspiring figure (the first African Barack Obama of chess?) Anyway, some prominent figure who would help promote to some degree. So, spend some money promoting African chess under this program with the goal of finding the 8 year old prodigies, develop them, support them, etc. We actually need lots of rich guys who could be interested in this kind of philanthropy. It would be fun (I don't have any money, but it would be) to search for talent like this in one's area of interest. That would be to promote achievements of the mind, instead of ball players. And, it is achievers like this who can really help their country. Africans, peoples from all the poorer countries need to inspired by this kind of achievement. Instill this into a culture and it changes everything. Look at Asian societies. you might argue that it is not very creative achievement, but they have beaten poverty. |
|
Sep-04-13 | | TITIKIZA: < Kasempa Chansa: Mr. Bwalya Gillian is a formidable player Though, we know that he was not comfortable with the extreme cold weather in Norway and being surrounded by an all white group of people. No Black African player has ever gone to a second round at FIDE world cup and from this we realize why: it is because of a deliberate criteria that they used to intentionally pair Bwalya with the world no 3 Kramnik-though it is a white dominated FIDE, they do not have to make it so horribly known. Next year we are just going to send all the three Zambian International Masters to increase our chances and we will keep an eye on FIDE> PLEASE DO YOUR HOMEWORK BEFORE YOU EMBARASS US ZAMBIANS |
|
Oct-26-13 | | Karpova: Congratulations on winning the 2nd Airtel Chess Challenge on tie-breaks with 4.5 points, IM Bwalya: http://www.thechessdrum.net/blog/20... |
|
 |
< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 2 OF 2 ·
Later Kibitzing> |