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Hans-Joachim Federer
  
Number of games in database: 1
Years covered: 2001
Last FIDE rating: 2004
Highest rating achieved in database: 2043


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HANS-JOACHIM FEDERER
(born Oct-13-1950, 70 years old) Germany

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 page 1 of 1; one game  PGN Download 
Game  ResultMoves YearEvent/LocaleOpening
1. L Krizsany vs H J Federer 1-0242001Bad WoerishofenE73 King's Indian

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 197 OF 201 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Sep-14-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  saffuna: <Margaret Court was the exception but those other players you mentioned would have had overseas success had they made the trip to the USA and Europe, but they did not for the same reason many Americans and Europeans did not make the trip to Australia.>

Jan Lehane reached the final of the Australian four straight years, and lost to Court every time.

In that time she played every major championship and never got past the quarterfinals.

If we are trying to name "greatest ever" largely by number of major championships, Court's 11 Australians need to be reduced by at least two or three. I happen to think Graf is the greatest of all players, and she played against all the best players in every major tournament.

From 1988 through 1996 Graf played in 33 major tournaments. She won twenty and lost in the finals in six more. She failed to get to the quarterfinals only once.

Sep-14-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  saffuna: Above I said none of the seeds in the 1964 draw won any major titles.

That's wrong. Lesley Turner Bowrey won the French twice, and reached the final twice more.

Sep-14-20  optimal play: <saffuna: Above I said none of the seeds in the 1964 draw won any major titles. That's wrong. Lesley Turner Bowrey won the French twice, and reached the final twice more.>

And was no.2 in the world!

Jim, don't you think it would be better if you actually ascertained the facts before shooting off your mouth?

How many posts do you need to make before you realise your errors and have to embarrassingly self-correct?

Sep-14-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  saffuna: <Jim, don't you think it would be better if you actually ascertained the facts before shooting off your mouth?>

I made one mistake. I corrected it when I realized the error. You didn't point it out.

I stand by my claim that the seeds at the Australian Championships from 1960 to 1964 were largely filled with non-world class players.

Sep-14-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: I had no idea that Margaret Court was outspoken as being against gays. Couldn't give a rats ass about athlete's politics at all. A lot of the best female players of the 60s just didn't think making the trip to Australia for the open was worthwhile, that's all. The field there was diluted.

I realize you're an Oz patriot and all that, but just accept the facts that are staring you in the face, and move on.

In the USA it's only been in the past 25 years that black men have been allowed to play quarterback on primo high school and college football teams, then get a shot at the pros. Blacks just weren't allowed to play quarterback at top football schools in the 1960s and '70s, unless they were all black schools in the American south. Even then, such players were not allowed to play the position in the NFL. They were drafted, but their foot speed was employed as they were told to play the cornerback position, or safety. Blacks were not allowed to compete for the plum job, being the starting QB, the face of a team, be it college or NFL. That's just the way it was, and it was wrong.

I can freely admit that, why can't you admit That Margret Court didn't play the strongest players when winning ten Australian Opens? And, I bet you won't admit that blacks in Australia were probably never encouraged to play tennis, not allowed to encroach on a 'white' sport. Evonne Goolagong is the exception, but there probably would have been more blacks in tennis in Oz, had the opportunities been there.

Have a Foster's mate! Don't be alligator arms when the check comes...

Sep-14-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  saffuna: The situation my freshman year at Stanford was interesting. For two years the QB had been an exciting and athletic black named Gene Washington.

But he just wasn't a very good passer, and coaches decided to switch to a new transfer was better (Jim Plunkett, a Mexican-American). So Washington was moved to wide receiver, where he became an All-American and later All-NFL. And Plunkett won the Heisman and was QB on two Super Bowl winners.

Sep-14-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: While I disagree with Court's views on homosexuality, those have nothing whatever to do with her greatness between the white lines, same as Ty Cobb being largely a <point of sale> off the diamond was immaterial to his stature as a player.
Sep-14-20  optimal play: Jim, I understand that your qualification for "world class player" is anyone who played in the US Open, since a backwater like Australia is of no consequence.

It doesn't matter that Australia was the leading tennis nation of the 50's and 60's. If it didn't happen in the USA then it doesn't count.

Matey, I understand that any sports competition that did not include American negroes is null and void, and therefore must be stricken from the record books.

If an American negro wasn't playing, it doesn't count. Therefore a backwater like Australia which was devoid of negroes has no credibility.

Alan, I had never heard of Ty Cobb so I googled him:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xzb...

Have you read the biography by Charles Leerhsen?

Sep-15-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  saffuna: What does "American negro" have to the discussion?

The fields at the Australian from 60 to 64 were weak. The other players had little success in other major tournaments.

From 61 through 64 Court lost only one set, in a quarterfinal. She won most sets by 6-1 or 6-2. She did that a lot in the other tournaments as well, but also had tough matches and even lost sometimes.

Sep-15-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: <saffuna: What does "American negro" have to the discussion?>

Far as Serena Williams' achievements go, as little as <....no such thing as racism....> has to do with reality, and the hypocrisy inherent in the above remarks causes one to doubt the objectivity of this, ah, commentator.

Sep-15-20  optimal play: <saffuna: What does "American negro" have to the discussion?>

Everything, according to <HeMateMe>

<The fields at the Australian from 60 to 64 were weak. The other players had little success in other major tournaments.>

Yes Jim, I understand your argument.

Despite the fact that Australia was the top tennis nation in the 50's & 60's and the ladies generally did not travel back then, we can completely discount the value of the Australian Open because Australia is a backwater and only the US Open should be taken seriously.

<From 61 through 64 Court lost only one set, in a quarterfinal. She won most sets by 6-1 or 6-2.>

A testament to her dominance.

<She did that a lot in the other tournaments as well, but also had tough matches and even lost sometimes.>

At least she traveled to the other side of the world to play, something which the northern girls were reluctant to do because they knew they would get beat by the Aussie girls down here.

<perfidious: ... blah blah blah ...>

Alan, as usual your comments are incomprehensible.

Now, what about Ty Cobb?

Sep-15-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  saffuna: <Everything, according to <HeMateMe>>

But you were referring to <my> opinion. What does "American negro" have to do with my opinion?

<A testament to her dominance.>

But she could do that only at the Australian. Not at Wimbledon. Not at Forest Hills. Not at Roland Garros.

<...the ladies generally did not travel back then...>

Some did. Jan Lehane, Court's main rival in Australia for several years, did play the other majors, and never reached a semifinal.

<Australian Open
F (1960, 1961, 1962, 1963)
French Open
QF (1960, 1962, 1963, 1964)
Wimbledon
QF (1963)
US Open
QF (1960, 1961)>

Sep-15-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  perfidious: Race and religious or political views always, always, always hold sway over cold reality for that, ah, poster: it is an exercise in utter futility trying to have a reasonable conversation with <suboptimal>.
Sep-16-20  optimal play: <saffuna: <Everything, according to <HeMateMe>>

But you were referring to <my> opinion.>

No I wasn't.

I was referring to <HeMateMe>'s opinion.

<What does "American negro" have to do with my opinion?>

Nothing, as far as I know.

My comment pertaining to "American negro" was directed to <HeMateMe>

<Matey, I understand that any sports competition that did not include American negroes is null and void, and therefore must be stricken from the record books. If an American negro wasn't playing, it doesn't count. Therefore a backwater like Australia which was devoid of negroes has no credibility.>

"Matey" is short for <HeMateMe>.

<<A testament to her dominance.>

But she could do that only at the Australian. Not at Wimbledon. Not at Forest Hills. Not at Roland Garros.>

She won at Wimbledon, Forest Hills and Roland Garros!

<<...the ladies generally did not travel back then...>

Some did. Jan Lehane, Court's main rival in Australia for several years, did play the other majors, and never reached a semifinal.>

So Jan Lehane played better at home than overseas?

Same with the American and European girls.

That's why the northern girls were reluctant to make the long trip to Australia knowing they would get beat by Margaret Court, not to mention the other Aussie girls.

<perfidious: ... blah blah ...>

Alan, what about Ty Cobb?

Did you view the five minute video I linked to?

You made a derogatory post about him, and when I checked up on it, discovered that you were wrong.

Alan, don't you think it would be better if you actually ascertained the facts before shooting off your mouth?

How many posts do you need to make before you realise your errors and have to embarrassingly self-correct?

Sep-16-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  saffuna: <She won at Wimbledon, Forest Hills and Roland Garros!>

Not nearly as easily or as often as in Australia.

<So Jan Lehane played better at home than overseas?>

No, I suspect she played at the same level. That got her to finals in Australia and quarters in the others..

<That's why the northern girls were reluctant to make the long trip to Australia knowing they would get beat by Margaret Court, not to mention the other Aussie girls.>

Maria Bueno knew she would get beaten by Court? She of course is also southern hemisphere, but she was a serious rival.

Sep-16-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  HeMateMe: I think the Australian Open was awarded Grand Slam major status because of the brilliance of it's men's player in the 50s and 60s. Ken Rosewall, Roy Emerson, Rod Laver, John Newcombe--they could hold their own with anyone. <optimal> is projecting this same talent level onto the Aussie women players, as a group, but it doesn't work because they simply weren't as talented against their own peers as the Aussie men were.
Sep-16-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  saffuna: The majors were the championships of the four nations that had won the Davis Cup.
Sep-17-20  optimal play: 1960 & 1961 US Open champion Darlene Hard was beaten in the QF of the 1962 Australian Open.

1962 US Open champion was Margaret Court.

1963 & 1964 & 1966 US Open champion Maria Bueno was beaten in the QF of the 1960 Australian Open and the final of the 1965 Australia Open.

1965 US Open champion was Margaret Court.

As well as a two-time US Open champion, Darlene Hard was also the 1960 French Open champion, but was unsuccessful at her Australian Open appearance.

As well as a four-time US Open champion, Maria Bueno was also a three-time Wimbledon champion, but was unsuccessful at both of her Australian Open appearances.

Ann Jones was a two-time French Open champion and Wimbledon champion, but was unsuccessful at her 1965 Australian Open appearance.

As mentioned previously, Australian Lesley Turner twice won the French Open.

Head to head, Margaret Court and Billie Jean King faced each other 32 times, with Court winning 22. They no doubt would have met more often had Court not retired from tennis for two years before returning in 1968 at the age of 25. King and Court met in the finals of five Grand Slam events, two before Court's brief retirement and three after. King won only one of those five matches, the 1968 Australian Open soon after Court's return to competition.

No matter how you want to look at it, Margaret Court was head and shoulders above her competition, no matter where she played.

The women players from Europe, USA or even Brazil, knew the Australian conditions were tough, it was hot, a long way from home, still an amateur competition (as they all were), so no real monetary reward, and they had to face Margaret Court and the other Aussie women who they knew they couldn't beat on their home turf.

They generally chose not to show up.

But fifty years later Jim & Matey summarily dismiss the Australian Open and Margaret Court's achievements because they don't fit into their own criteria of "greatest of all time", which is always the most recent winner of the US Open, because that's the only tournament that counts.

Oh, and btw, the four majors were determined by the traditional tennis nations from which the Davis Cup developed.

Sep-17-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  saffuna: <1963 & 1964 & 1966 US Open champion Maria Bueno was beaten in the QF of the 1960 Australian Open and the final of the 1965 Australia Open.>

And didn't play from 61 to 64.

She was the best player of her era. My only claim is that her 24 majors is inflated because of winning seven straight Australians, often with weak fields.

And the 24 majors are her claim to being the best ever.

Sep-17-20  optimal play: <saffuna: <1963 & 1964 & 1966 US Open champion Maria Bueno was beaten in the QF of the 1960 Australian Open and the final of the 1965 Australia Open.>

And didn't play from 61 to 64.>

For the reasons I explained.

<She was the best player of her era.>

And any era.

<My only claim is that her 24 majors is inflated because of winning seven straight Australians, often with weak fields.>

I've already refuted that false disparagement.

<And the 24 majors are her claim to being the best ever.>

Also only one of three women to have won THE calendar year Grand Slam.

Also her head to head with the best.

The overall evidence is compelling.

Sep-17-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  saffuna: <But fifty years later Jim & Matey summarily dismiss the Australian Open and Margaret Court's achievements>

I don't dismiss the Australian Open at all. As an Open (starting in 1969) it has been a true international event, though it also had weak fields at times.

The fields at the amateur Australian championships oftend not include many of the best players.

Sep-17-20  optimal play: <saffuna: ... The fields at the amateur Australian championships oftend not include many of the best players.>

See above.

Sep-17-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  saffuna: <Also only one of three women to have won THE calendar year Grand Slam.>

OK. One of the others is Steffi Graf. Why should Court rank above Graf?

Sep-17-20  optimal play: <saffuna: <Also only one of three women to have won THE calendar year Grand Slam.>

OK. One of the others is Steffi Graf. Why should Court rank above Graf?>

Other considerations, e.g. number of Grand Slam wins.

Sep-17-20
Premium Chessgames Member
  saffuna: <Other considerations, e.g. number of Grand Slam wins.>

Which Court fattened up by dominating weaker fields in Australia in the 60s.

Just by the eye test, Graf would have crushed Court. But Graf used high&tech rackets and strings, while Court used wood and gut. Any top 30 player today could crush any player from the 60s, but that's due to the rackets.

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