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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 57 OF 57 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
Jan-31-25
 | | beatgiant: Doing the "born in February" list made me notice that I missed Tabatabaei on my Middle East list above. He should be #2 at 2666 and everyone below him moved down a rank. |
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Feb-02-25
 | | alexmagnus: February:
European Union:
1. Firouzja 2760
2. Duda 2739
3. Keymer 2731
4. Vachier-Lagrave 2729
5. Giri 2728
6. Fedoseev 2724
7. Rapport 2718
8. Topalov 2717
9. Deac 2692
10. Van Foreest 2688
Former Soviet Union:
1. Abdusattorov 2766
2. Nepomniachtchi 2754
3. Mamedyarov 2731
4. Dubov 2701
5. Sindarov 2700
6. Radjabov 2798
7. Artemiev 2691
8. Grischuk 2687
9. Kasimdzhanov 2681
10. Vokhidov 2670
Former British Empire:
1. Caruana 2803
2. Nakamura 2802
3. Erigaisi 2801
4. Gukesh 2777
5. Anand 2750
6. So 2747
7. Aronian 2745
8-9. Dominguez 2741
8-9. Praggnanandhaa 2741
10. Niemann 2734
Asia:
1. Erigaisi 2801
2. Gukesh 2777
3. Abdusattorov 2766
4. Wei 2755
5. Anand 2750
6. Praggnanandhaa 2741
7. Le 2739
8. Ding 2734
9. Aravindh 2729
10. Vidit 2721
Born later than the world champion:
1. Murzin 2657
2. Gurel 2624
3. Pranav 2615
4. Daneshvar 2604
5. Mishra 2600
6. Erdogmus 2599
7. Yoo 2588
8. Pranesh 2586
9. Maurizzi 2581
10. Lazavik 2572
Nuclear powers:
1. Caruana 2803
2. Nakamura 2802
3. Erigaisi 2801
4. Gukesh 2777
5. Firouzja 2760
6. Wei 2755
7. Nepomniachtchi 2754
8. Anand 2750
9. So 2747
10. Aronian 2745
Old Guard:
1. Anand 2750
2. Aronian 2745
3. Dominguez 2741
4. Mamedyarov 2731
5. Topalov 2717
6. Svidler 2696
7. Grischuk 2687
8. Bu 2684
9. Kasimdzhanov 2681
10. Navara 2677 |
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Feb-02-25
| | beatgiant: Given the inconsistent federation designation of Russians on the FIDE list, I decided to make a new list of "Russians in Limbo." This is defined as Russians with federation listed as FIDE but still in Russia (so not eligible for either <alexmagnus>'s Former Soviet Union or my Rest of World list). Again, I welcome any corrections or further info about the Russian players and how FIDE is listing them. 1. Svidler 2696
2. Esipenko 2695
3. Murzin 2657
4. Malakhov 2642
5. Najer 2637
6. Paravyan 2621
7. Nesterov 2591
8. Lysyj 2586
9. Rakhmanov 2585
10. Khanin 2576 |
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Feb-06-25
| | beatgiant: I now return to a discussion of the top elders. For the moment, I'll go with "golden oldies" as the name for them. The last time I discussed these, I estimated the effect of aging for golden oldies is a rating drop of about 20 elo per year. I also set the par for a remarkably strong oldie at 2600 at age 65. I'll continue with those numbers for this month's list. But, it's not clear this model works well for extremely old players. For example, at age 95 the par adjustment is 600 elo. While playing at a Class A level at age 95 is notable, I'm not sure it makes sense to rank such a player alongside grandmasters. For this reason, I'll post a separate list of the nonagenarians and centenarians who I think are remarkably strong for their age, but without the par calculation. |
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Feb-06-25
| | beatgiant: Sensational Centenarians
Eligibility: Listed as active, born 1925 or earlier and at least 1700 rating. Order is by year born and then by rating.1. Alvarez Escudero, b. 1921, 1741
2. St.-Pierre, b. 1925, 1831
3. Liard, b. 1925, 1823
4. Cloutier, b. 1925, 1778.
Honorable mention:
Saeb, b. 1921, 1648, but 1762 (rapid) and 1728 (blitz). |
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Feb-06-25
| | beatgiant: Nonpareil Ninety-fivers
Eligibility: Listed as active, born 1926-1930 and at least 1900 rating. Order is by year born and then rating.1. Kripp, b. 1929, 1963
Kripp also is the earliest born player whose rating is higher than his year of birth. |
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Feb-06-25
| | beatgiant: From the 1930's we start to see titled players, which is a useful check to calibrate the model. Following I list the oldest active player to hold each title. GM: Hecht, b. 1939, 2292
IM: Vergara Duplaquet, b. 1938, 1939
WGM: Bellin, b. 1947, 1942
WIM: Teasley, b. 1941, 1922
FM: Rosen, b. 1933, 2110
WFM: Dotan, b. 1941, 1848; Goncharova, b. 1941, 1816 CM: Egan, b. 1937, 1616
WCM: Norman, b. 1946, 1797
Looking at numbers like these, one gains a new appreciation of players like Kripp, who is over 95 and rated above an IM about a decade younger. My conclusion is that 20 elo per year above age 65 is no overestimate. |
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Feb-06-25
| | beatgiant: Now, I'll do an example calculation of my "golden oldie index." I hope this will help those who didn't see my explanation a few years back, and more importantly it will help myself to make sure I get it right and also give plenty of chance for other kibitzers to spot and correct any mistakes. Let's consider Timman. He was born in 1951. We take 1960 as our base year, since that is 65 years ago. Timman's birth year is 9 years before that, so his par rating is 2600 - (9*20) = 2420. His actual rating is 2534, which is 2534 - 2420 = 114 above par. We convert this to years using our 20 points a year, and this gives 114/20 = 5.7. The intended interpretation is, "Timman is playing at a level 5.7 years younger than his age." In my following list, I will give name, year born, actual rating, par rating, and "years younger than age" calculation. |
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Feb-10-25
| | beatgiant: And here's the list. Accuracy/completeness far from guaranteed! I wasn't quite ready to put in the work to automate the process, but it's also a lot of work by hand. Golden Oldies
Eligibility: Listed as active, born 1960 or earlier, and rating is "above par for age." Ordered by "years younger than age." (Where par and years younger are as defined in kibitzes above.) 1. FM Afromeev, b. 1954, 2603 (par 2480), 123/20 = 6.15 yrs 2. GM Timman, b. 1951, 2534 (par 2420), 114/20 = 5.7 yrs 3. GM Hecht, b. 1939, 2292 (par 2180), 112/20 = 5.6 yrs 4. FM Brostrom, b. 1942, 2329 (par 2240), 89/20 = 4.45 yrs 5. GM Vukic, b. 1942, 2326 (par 2240), 86/20 = 4.3 yrs 6. Tauber, b. 1940, 2273 (par 2200), 73/20 = 3.65 yrs 7. GM Vaisser, b. 1949, 2452 (par 2380), 72/20 = 3.6 yrs 8. GM Murey, b. 1941, 2282 (par 2220), 62/20 = 3.1 yrs 9. FM Haakert, b. 1941, 2280 (par 2220), 60/20 = 3 yrs 10. FM Lee, b. 1943, 2319 (par 2260), 59/20 = 2.95 yrs 11. GM Christiansen, b. 1956, 2571 (par 2520), 51/20 = 2.55 yrs 12. FM Rosen, b. 1933, 2110 (par 2060), 50/20 = 2.5 yrs 13. GM Vaganian, b. 1950, 2449 (par 2400), 49/20 = 2.45 yrs 14. GM Kurajica, b. 1947, 2386 (par 2340), 46/20 = 2.3 yrs 15. IM Bhend, b. 1931, 2065 (par 2020) 45/20 = 2.25 yrs 16. GM Hort, b. 1944, 2315 (par 2280), 35/20 = 1.75 yrs 17. GM Nunn, b. 1955, 2533 (par 2500), 33/20 = 1.65 yrs 18. IM Donchenko, b. 1940, 2232 (par 2200), 32/20 = 1.6 yrs 19. Bikmukhametov, b. 1937 2188 (par 2160), 28/20 = 1.4 yrs 20. GM Jansa, b. 1942, 2267 (par 2240), 27/20 = 1.35 yrs 21. IM Bangiev, b. 1946, 2346 (par 2320), 26/20 = 1.3 yrs 22. IM Antunac, b. 1945, 2321 (par 2300), 21/20 = 1.05 yrs 23. IM Klundt, b. 1941, 2238 (par 2220), 18/20 = 0.9 yrs 24. GM Torre, b. 1951, 2417 (par 2400), 17/20 = 0.85 yrs 25. GM Beliavsky, b. 1953, 2474 (par 2460), 14/20 = 0.7 yrs 27-28. IM Marangunic, b. 1943, 2264 (par 2260), 4/20 0.2 yrs 27-28. GM Knaak, b. 1953, 2464 (par 2460), 4/20 0.2 yrs |
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Feb-10-25
| | beatgiant: Almost all the Golden Oldies are titled players, a good validation for the method. The exceptions are Tauber and Bikmukhametov. Does anyone have any idea who they are? |
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Feb-11-25
| | beatgiant: I see a mistake in my list on GM Torre. He's performing very close to par (actual 2417, par 2420). |
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Feb-21-25
| | beatgiant: Also my numbering is off at the end. Here's a corrected bottom of the list. 23. IM Klundt, b. 1941, 2238 (par 2220), 18/20 = 0.9 yrs 24. GM Beliavsky, b. 1953, 2474 (par 2460), 14/20 = 0.7 yrs 25-26. IM Marangunic, b. 1943, 2264 (par 2260), 4/20 0.2 yrs 25-26. GM Knaak, b. 1953, 2464 (par 2460), 4/20 0.2 yrs |
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Mar-01-25
| | alexmagnus: March:
European Union:
1. Firouzja 2757
2-3. Fedoseev 2739
2-3. Duda 2739
4. Giri 2737
5. Vachier-Lagrave 2725
6. Keymer 2719
7. Topalov 2717
8. Rapport 2713
9. Deac 2692
10. Nguyen 2677
Former Soviet Union:
1. Abdusattorov 2773
2. Nepomniachtchi 2753
3. Mamedyarov 2748
4. Sindarov 2707
5. Dubov 2701
6. Radjabov 2692
7. Artemiev 2688
8. Grischuk 2687
9. Kasimdzhanov 2675
10. Vokhidov 2670
Former British Empire:
1. Nakamura 2802
2. Gukesh 2787
3. Caruana 2783
4. Erigaisi 2777
5. Praggnanadhaa 2758
6-7. So 2748
6-7. Aronian 2748
8. Anand 2743
9. Dominguez 2741
10. Niemann 2734
Asia:
1. Gukesh 2787
2. Erigaisi 2777
3. Abdusattorov 2773
4. Wei 2760
5. Praggnanandhaa 2758
6. Anand 2743
7. Le 2739
8. Ding 2734
9. Aravindh 2731
10. Vidit 2720
Born later than the world champion:
1. Murzin 2658
2. Maurizzi 2622
3. Gurel 2620
4. Pranav 2615
5. Daneshvar 2609
6. Erdogmus 2605
7. Mishra 2600
8. Yoo 2588
9. Pranesh 2584
10. Lazavik 2572
Nuclear powers:
1. Nakamura 2802
2. Gukesh 2787
3. Caruana 2783
4. Erigaisi 2777
5. Wei 2760
6. Praggnanandhaa 2758
7. Firouzja 2757
8. Nepomniachtchi 2753
9-10. So 2748
9-10. Aronian 2748
Old Guard:
1-2. Mamedyarov 2748
1-2. Aronian 2748
3. Anand 2743
4. Dominguez 2741
5. Topalov 2717
6. Svidler 2698
7. Grischuk 2687
8. Bu 2684
9. Kasimdzhanov 2675
10-11. Eljanov 2666
10-11. Leko 2666 |
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Mar-17-25
| | beatgiant: Speaking of Golden Oldies, who the heck is Xavier Moos? His FIDE card claims he was born in 1900, was active last month, and is rated 1498! If the birth year is correct, he would even be notable as the oldest living person, let alone still being able to win a few games of chess. |
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Mar-17-25
| | beatgiant: The oldest active player born each year:
1900*: Moos, 1498 (*can't be accurate)
1921: Alvarez Escudero, 1738
1923: Moral Gonzalez, 1582
1924: Royakkers, 1537
1925: St.-Pierre, 1831
1926: Pipitone, 1624
1928: Leonhardt, 1764
1929: Kripp, 1963
1930: Santos, 1878
1931: IM Bhend, 2065
1932: Krueger, 2045
1933: FM Rosen, 2099
1934: FM Gruzmann, 2072
1935: Hildebrand, 2017
1936: FM Kornasiewicz, 2056
1937: Bikmukhametov, 2188
1938: FM Watzka, 2130
1939: GM Hecht, 2292
1940: Tauber, 2273
1941: GM Murey, 2282
1942: FM Brostrom, 2329
1943: FM Lee, 2319
1944: GM Hort, 2315
1945: IM Antunac, 2321
1946: IM Bangiev, 2341
1947: GM Kurajica, 2386
1948: FM Kirpichnikov, 2326
1949: GM Vaisser, 2436
1950: GM Ubilava, 2395
1951: GM Timman, 2536
1952: IM Haik, 2371
1953: GM Knaak, 2472
1954: FM Afromeev, 2603
1955: GM Nunn, 2528
1956: GM Speelman, 2494
1957: GM Mestel, 2449
1958: GM Boensch, 2470
1959: GM Gurevich, 2572
1960: GM Jussupow, 2554
1961: GM Bischoff, 2425
1962: GM Ehlvest, 2532
1963: GM Krasenkow, 2516
1964: GM Kruppa, 2572
1965: GM Illescas Cordoba, 2594
1966: GM Kozul, 2505
1967: GM Agdestein, 2573
1968: GM Gelfand, 2652
1969: GM Anand, 2743
1970: GM Hracek, 2537
1971: GM Adams, 2663
1972: GM Shirov, 2652
1973: GM Nielsen, 2617
1974: GM Kamsky, 2607
1975: GM Topalov, 2717
1976: GM Svidler, 2698
1977: GM Morozevich, 2656
1978: GM Movsesian, 2593
1979: GM Kasimdzhanov, 2675
1980: GM Malakhov, 2642
1981: GM Fressinet, 2591
1982: GM Aronian, 2748
1983: GM Dominguez Perez, 2741
1984: GM McShane, 2615
1985: GM Mamedyarov, 2748
1986: GM Harikrishna, 2704
1987: GM Nakamura, 2802
1988: GM Mamedov, 2657
1989: GM Wang, 2701
1990: GM Carlsen, 2833
1991: GM Le, 2739
1992: GM Caruana, 2783
1993: GM So, 2748
1994: GM Giri, 2737
1995: GM Fedoseev, 2739
1996: GM Rapport, 2713
1997: GM Oparin, 2660
1998: GM Duda, 2739
1999: GM Wei, 2760
2000: GM Sevian, 2692
2001: GM Deac, 2692
2002: GM Esipenko, 2691
2003: GM Erigaisi, 2777
2004: GM Abdusattorov, 2773
2005: GM Praggnanandhaa, 2758
2006: GM Gukesh, 2787
2007: GM Maurizzi, 2622
2008: GM Gurel, 2620
2009: GM Mishra, 2600
2010: GM Zemlyanskii, 2550
2011: GM Erdogmus, 2605
2012: Yang, 2337
2013: IM Oro, 2427
2014: FM Zhu, 2301
2015: FM Shogdzhiev, 2348
2016: CM Protopopescu, 2056
2017: Le Doan, 1857
2018: Quintans, 1738
2019: Vu, 1565
2020: Ailan, 1529 |
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Mar-17-25
| | beatgiant: I hope the huge list above doesn't seem like spam. But I think it shows some interesting trends. Age distributions: We start to see masters around age 10, GMs around age 15, top players in the world around age 20-35, and then a gradual dropoff in strength. The list stops being exclusively GMs around age 75, and starts having many untitled players around age 85. Geographic distributions: It's majority Europeans until about 1985 and majority Asians since about 2003. Germany has a lot of strong older players, some of whom settled there from Eastern Europe. |
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Mar-19-25
| | beatgiant: If I ever do this type of survey again, I'll go for something less fine-grained like decades instead of years. It's too hard for the eye to take in a list of about 100 rows like that, I'd hate to abuse the hospitality of <alexmagnus> in his forum, plus it's a lot of work to put the info together. But, with permission, I will follow up with a few posts in more depth about some of the trends revealed above. |
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Mar-21-25
| | beatgiant: On the topic of the supercentenarians, we need to understand that a FIDE card is not the same thing as a birth certificate. For example see Andreas Dueckstein (kibitz #31) where we found Igor Zaitsev's FIDE card gives his birth year as 1937 but other high quality sources give it as 1938. If Xavier Moos were really born in 1900, this would make him by far the oldest currently living man and also the oldest man who ever lived, so there would be lots of reports about him in the media and in gerontology journals, and he'd be a top celebrity in the chess world too. Also, Moos is South African. If we include inactive players, we find four other South Africans whose year of birth is given as 1900. One of these others has games in 2022, so the explanation is not just that he's long dead but not yet removed from the FIDE list. The next oldest South Africans (including inactive) weren't born until 1931, and the next oldest active not until 1947. So it seems much more likely that some South African tournament director just estimated the year of birth of a bunch of older players with the nice round number of 1900. This raises a similar question about the Canadian centenarians. I find a lot of Canadian players with a year of birth of 1920, and a lot of players with a year of birth of 1925, and nothing in between, and nothing else in the rest of the decade until 1929. Some of these players have recent tournament activity. Are they really 100 or 105 years old and achieving ratings in the 1500-1800 range? I think we need to put an asterisk around these players as well. A similar comment applies to Ghasemi, an Iranian player currently inactive but with rated games from 2016. Her year of birth is listed as 1901 and her rating is 1762, which would make her a top Golden Oldie if the year of birth were accurate. Given all these issues, I'll have to revise my Sensational Centenarian list above and at least add asterisks to some of them. |
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Mar-21-25
| | alexmagnus: <It's too hard for the eye to take in a list of about 100 rows like that, I'd hate to abuse the hospitality of <alexmagnus> in his forum, plus it's a lot of work to put the info together.> No problem. I'm quite a freak when it comes to sports statistics, so you can post whatever you find on the subject. |
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Mar-21-25
| | alexmagnus: And sports + longevity statistics is combining my two top interests :) |
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Mar-27-25
| | alexmagnus: With Karpov now being the oldest living world champion, this means that we might be close to the point where my "Earliest WC match with living players" statistics might soon enter the FIDE/Classical split era. So, to avoid future confusion, I present here now how my profile will deal with that era: 1) Both world championship lines are recognized but handled separately. That is, as long as the "FIDE" and "Classical" answers will be different, both will be listed 2) "WC match" in the context of this will be
a) in case of a match WC - well, the match itself b) in case of a knockout: the final
c) in case of a tournament WC (FIDE 2005 and undisputed 2007) - all players are counted as "match" participants. That is, all eight players of the respective tournament must be alive to count for the "both players living" category Knockout WCs: everything from the quarterfinal onwards is counted as "Candidates". The 2005 FIDE WC is considered its own Candidates tournament. Not the case with the 2007 WC, as it had an actual Candidates. The "Interzonal" statistic will be dropped past-1993, the "Soviet Championship" statistic post-fall of the USSR. Soviet Championships held in the Swiss system: only top 20 players are counted. |
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Mar-27-25
| | alexmagnus: <Soviet Championships held in the Swiss system: only top 20 players are counted.> Same goes for Interzonals in the Swiss system. |
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Mar-27-25
| | alexmagnus: Btw, this ruling means that the FIDE 2005 championship will never be the "earliest FIDE championship with all players living", as that would mean both Kasimdzhanov and Adams are alive and therefore 2004 is an earlier one. Similarly, the 2007 championship can never be the earliest classical one, as that would mean both Kramnik and Leko being alive, going back to the classical 2004 one. The 2007 championship might one day end up being the earliest FIDE one though. |
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Apr-01-25
| | alexmagnus: April:
European Union:
1. Firouzja 2757
2-3. Duda 2739
2-3. Fedoseev 2739
4. Giri 2738
5-. Rapport 2722
5-6. Vachier-Lagrave 2722
7. Keymer 2718
8. Topalov 2717
9. Van Foreest 2681
10-12. Nguyen 2668
10-12. Deac 2668
10-12. Svane 2668
Former Soviet Union:
1. Abdusattorov 2773
2. Nepomniachtchi 2757
3. Mamedyarov 2748
4. Sindarov 2706
5. Dubov 2693
6. Radjabov 2692
7. Grischuk 2682
8. Artemiev 2679
9. Kasimdzhanov 2678
10. Kovalenko 2676
Former British Empire:
1. Nakamura 2804
2. Gukesh 2787
3. Erigaisi 2782
4. Caruana 2776
5. Praggnanandhaa 2758
6. Aravindh 2749
7. So 2748
8. Aronian 2747
9. Anand 2743
10. Dominguez 2738
Asia:
1. Gukesh 2787
2. Erigaisi 2782
3. Abdusattorov 2773
4-5. Praggnanadhaa 2758
4-5. Wei 2758
6. Aravindh 2749
7. Anand 2743
8. Ding 2734
9. Le 2729
10. Vidit 2720
Born later than the world champion:
1. Murzin 2658
2. Gurel 2636
3. Pranav 2628
4. Erdogmus 2618
5. Daneshvar 2616
6-7. Maurizzi 2605
6-7. Mishra 2605
8. Yoo 2588
9. Lazavik 2577
10-11. Pranesh 2572
10-11. Samunenkov 2572
Nueclear powers:
1. Nakamura 2804
2. Gukesh 2787
3. Erigaisi 2782
4. Caruana 2776
5-6 .Praggnanandhaa 2758
5-6. Wei 2758
7-8. Nepomniachtchi 2757
7-8. Firouzja 2757
9. Aravindh 2749
10. So 2748
Old Guard:
1. Mamedyarov 2748
2. Aronian 2747
3. Anand 2743
4. Dominguez 2738
5. Topalov 2717
6. Svidler 2698
7. Bu 2684
8. Grischuk 2682
9. Kasimdzhanov 2678
10. Eljanov 2668 |
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May-01-25
| | alexmagnus: May:
European Union:
1. Firouzja 2757
2-3. Duda 2739
2-3. Fedoseev 2739
4. Giri 2738
5. Vachier-Lagrave 2723
6. Rapport 2722
7. Keymer 2720
8. Topalov 2717
9. Van Foreest 2687
10. Nguyen 2674
Former Soviet Union:
1. Abdusattorov 2771
2. Nepomnaichtchi 2757
3. Mamedyarov 2746
4. Sindarov 2706
5. Esipenko 2695
6. Dubov 2693
7. Radjabov 2692
8. Grischuk 2682
9. Artemiev 2679
10. Kovalenko 2676
Former British Empire:
1. Nakamura 2804
2. Gukesh 2787
3. Erigaisi 2782
4. Caruana 2776
5. Praggnanandhaa 2758
6. So 2751
7. Aravindh 2749
8. Aronian 2747
9. Anand 2743
10. Dominguez 2738
Asia:
1. Gukesh 2787
2. Erigaisi 2782
3. Abdusattorov 2771
4-5. Praggnanandhaa 2758
4-5. Wei 2758
6. Aravindh 2749
7. Anand 2743
8. Ding 2734
9. Le 2729
10. Vidit 2720
Born later than the world champion:
1. Murzin 2658
2. Gurel 2636
3-4. Pranav 2621
3-4. Daneshvar 2621
5. Erdogmus 2618
6. Maurizzi 2607
7. Mishra 2605
8. Yoo 2588
9. Lazavik 2577
10. Pranesh 2576
Nuclear powers:
1. Nakamura 2804
2. Gukesh 2787
3. Erigaisi 2782
4. Caruana 2776
5-6. Praggnanandhaa 2758
5-6. Wei 2758
7-8. Firouzja 2757
7-8. Nepomniachtchi 2757
9. So 2751
10. Aravindh 2749
Old Guard:
1. Aronian 2747
2. Mamedyarov 2746
3. Anand 2743
4. Dominguez 2738
5. Topalov 2717
6. Svidler 2698
7. Bu 2684
8. Grischuk 2682
9. Kasimdzhanov 2675
10. Eljanov 2668 |
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< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 57 OF 57 ·
Later Kibitzing> |
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Kibitzing
