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Feb-22-21
 | | MissScarlett: I've never bought this BS about 'I'm only interested in the games.' In the words of <John Wayne>: <The hell you are!> |
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Feb-22-21
 | | saffuna: Here's Einer Einarsson calling '61' a fraud:
https://my61fraud.blogspot.com
<From: Einar S Einarsson
Sent: Wednesday, July 22, 2009 5:09 PM
To: 'Edward Labate'; SIGMAR B. HAUKSSON
Cc: Yasser Seirawan
Subject: RE: EAT
Sorry to hear about all of this EAT @#$%*&!#
which pisses me and all Icelanders off totally.
What an asurd extreme and nonsense.
I contacted both F.Friedel at Chessbase.com
and D.J.t Guesendam at NIT and they do not want
dignify and publish anything about this rubbish hoax and blog which has sunken below all common sense. Still what Ed Trice says or asserts about me and others of Bobby´s fair friends does not bother us a bit. End of story.
Sincerely
Einar S. Einarsson
Chairman RJF Committee> |
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Feb-22-21
 | | saffuna: What kind of book is never offered for sale, either online or in bookstores? |
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Feb-22-21
 | | keypusher: <saffuna: What kind of book is never offered for sale, either online or in bookstores?> The Book of Mormon? The Bhagavad Gita? (Don't ruin it by proving me wrong.) |
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Feb-22-21 | | Petrosianic: <MissScarlett: I will ask Donaldson if he thinks its a forgery.> If Donaldson says it isn't a forgery (assuming he does) and Fischer says it is, I think I'd go with Bobby <‘Some time after he came home [from hospital] we became aware of a new book in circulation, My 61 Memorable Games, which was claimed to be by Bobby. The book supposedly contained the 60 games that he had selected and annotated in his book My 60 Memorable Games with the addition of one game from his match against Spassky in 1992. Every time he had discussed the possibility of re-issuing this book [My 60 Memorable Games] he had been opposed to my idea of publishing it with revised annotations by himself and others, which I was convinced would make the book even more valuable. To Bobby, it was more important that the original sources should be preserved in their original form. To meddle with the text of an already published book was so ridiculous to him that I doubt whether he would have agreed to correct even obvious spelling mistakes, if found. My 60 Memorable Games was no less dear to him than many of his victories in chess. He was therefore very sad when I brought him the news of that counterfeit publication, which, we discovered later, had been illustrated with the Icelandic flag and photographs taken for private use by Icelanders with whom he was no longer associated.’> -- Yfir farinn veg með Bobby Fischer by Garðar Sverrisson |
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Feb-22-21
 | | Check It Out: <eggman> The brief interview is hilarious. <Int: "Would you call yourself a misogynist?"BF: "Excuse me, what's the definition of that word?" I: "What do you think of women?"
BF: "When it comes to chess, not too much. "
I: "What about outside chess?"
BF: "I don't think they should mess in intellectual affairs. They should keep strictly at home." I: "A woman's place is over the hot stove, eh?"
BF: "No, they can't cook."
I: "What can they do?!"
BF: "You know, just be at home, waiting for their man to come home."> Granted, he was young in that interview, but lordy. |
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Feb-22-21 | | Petrosianic: <Granted, he was young in that interview, but lordy.> Are you sure it's genuine? I've seen similar comments, but not that bad. In the early 60's, Tal mentioned being impressed that Fischer was familiar with some of the games from the Women's Championship, and they knew nothing about them. "Who has the time to look?", or something like that was Tal's comment. Of course in those days just FINDING games was a chore. Not like now when you can just go to a database and pull it all up. |
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Feb-22-21
 | | Check It Out: <Are you sure it's genuine?> It's a live interview, check the video <eggman> posted. |
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Feb-22-21 | | Petrosianic: I guess it's genuine, then. I'd cut him a lot of slack on what he said as a child, though. Apart from his mother and sister, what women did he even know about? (At a guess, I'd say that Regina Fischer was a lousy cook.) |
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Feb-22-21 | | Petrosianic: <The interviewer was no Art Linkletter, by the way. What kind of question is that, to ask a kid if he considers himself a misogynist, and then refuse to define the term on request?> I think he was showing off. (You may be a grandmaster, kid, but I know some big words you don't.) |
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Feb-22-21
 | | Check It Out: <What kind of question is that, to ask a kid if he considers himself a misogynist, and then refuse to define the term on request?> To be fair, he did define the word on request. He said in response to BF's definition query, <"A woman hater."> I agree though, these were loaded questions to be asking a young chess player. Can you imagine someone asking Karjakin or Carlsen those questions when they were 17-ish? I can't. |
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Feb-22-21 | | Petrosianic: OK, then it was just missing from the transcript. If he defined it, that's something.. It still seems a bit of a dirty question to ask a kid (inter-gender rivalry is a big thing for a lot of kids at that age). |
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Feb-22-21
 | | keypusher: Yes, some of those quotes are famous, including spotting the woman's world champion a knight. Which he probably could have done against the incumbent Bykova (whom he mentions), but not Gaprindashvili, who clobbered her the following year. |
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Feb-23-21
 | | HeMateMe: didn't kasparov play a match against a guy rated around 2200, in which every game featured Kasparov spotting the guy two pawns, a different two pawns? If memory serves, the fellow in question had been a promising junior player but hadn't played serious chess in years. Still, he beat Kasparov in a couple of those games. I would think anyone at the 2000 level (a young, active player) could beat any GM in the world given Knight odds in a serious match of several games. Lets give the GM a couple of draws because of vast experience, knowing so many ways to create a draw with a material disadvantage. The match would go to the person with the extra Knight. I see all of those USSR women beating Fischer if given knight odds. One might note that there would have been some nice publicity in it yet Fischer never pressed the topic. I'm guessing someone in Russia could have come up with some money for a short match, maybe 4 games, knight odds. Fischer would have gotten killed. |
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Feb-23-21 | | Petrosianic: <keypusher: Yes, some of those quotes are famous, including spotting the woman's world champion a knight. Which he probably could have done against the incumbent Bykova (whom he mentions), but not Gaprindashvili, who clobbered her the following year.> THAT quote I've heard about. It was in a more famous interview. Not sure if even Bykova could have been given a Knight. He'd have been The Bobby Riggs Before Bobby Riggs if he'd tried it. |
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Feb-23-21
 | | keypusher: <HMM I would think anyone at the 2000 level (a young, active player) could beat any GM in the world given Knight odds in a serious match of several games. > I think you're mistaken, but there isn't a lot of data. (Does Carlsen vs G Jones, 2018 count? Carlsen tosses a piece to a GM and then beats him. That game shows what a wide range in strength there is among GMs, too.) At blitz I would guess the GM could give a 2000 at least a rook, maybe a queen. Soltis wrote an old column about an odds tournament at the Marshall Chess Club in the 70s or 80s at a 30/30 time control or thereabouts. If there was a rating difference of more than 200 points, the stronger player gave pawn and move. If 400 to 599 points, knight odds. If 600 or more, rook odds. He wrote that people thought the odds were too steep, but in fact out of 40 games at odds the lower-rated player won only once. (See <Karl Marx Plays Chess> at 90.) Morphy won a knight-odds match against Thompson, one of the better American players, in 1859. Game Collection: Morphy's Knight Odds Match vs Thompson So given those data points, I would bet on the GM at knight odds even at standard time controls. Especially if the GM was at Carlsen or Caruana level rather than "only" 2500 or so. |
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Feb-23-21
 | | fabelhaft: <Can you imagine someone asking Karjakin or Carlsen those questions when they were 17-ish? I can't> The interview was made in 1962, just before Fischer turned 19. He was rather young, but still, I think few top players would express themselves like that at the same age. Women should avoid all intellectual fields, they belong at home, they can’t even cook, etc. Maybe such views were more common 60 years ago, but it all sounds very immature. |
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Feb-23-21
 | | keypusher: < fabelhaft: <Can you imagine someone asking Karjakin or Carlsen those questions when they were 17-ish? I can't>
The interview was made in 1962, just before Fischer turned 19. He was rather young, but still, I think few top players would express themselves like that at the same age. Women should avoid all intellectual fields, they belong at home, they can’t even cook, etc. Maybe such views were more common 60 years ago, but it all sounds very immature.> Honestly I think they were quite rare even in 1961. And I don't think Carlsen ever had such opinions. But one big difference between 18 y/o Carlsen and Fischer is that Carlsen had a familial and professional support group that helped with public relations, among other things. Even if he had ideas like that, he'd have been told to keep them to himself! |
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Feb-23-21
 | | Eggman: Surely the biggest difference between Magnus and Bobby is that the former was born 47 years after the latter. |
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Feb-23-21
 | | perfidious: The opinions expressed by Fischer in 1962 were, I believe, hardly his alone, immature though he surely was in many ways outside chess. I rather suspect that if one were to go to a dusty little town in Louisiana, or backwoods Vermont, to name merely two places which I have either visited or lived in, that the ideas articulated by those people may not have been so different. |
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Feb-23-21 | | Petrosianic: The opinions he expressed in 1992 are more troubling than those he expressed in 1962. |
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Feb-23-21
 | | Check It Out: Kids are much more media-savvy these days with the proliferation of phone recordings and social media. Back then it was much harder for an immature teen to understand the potential ramifications of permanent recordings and the media. As for these views:
Women can't cook: utter hogwash. Julia Child started her TV career months after this interview. She could have had a young Fischer on as a guest and showed him a thing or three about French cuisine. Women should not "mess" with intellectual affairs: complete tripe. Even tripe is better, usually in pho. |
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Feb-23-21
 | | Eggman: A longer clip of Fischer's 1963 interview with the CBC in Canada: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdA... |
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Feb-23-21
 | | MissScarlett: Women who can’t cook and who mess in intellectual affairs....Bob was obviously talking about his Mom. |
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Feb-23-21
 | | Eggman: <MissScarlett> Good insight. I think we always have specific examples in mind, even when generalizing. |
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