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Member since Sep-23-04
Scott Thomson

The Perseus Project: The classics in Greek, Latin & English--hyperlinked

A link to a page with downloads from the Venetus A, the oldest complete manuscript of the Iliad, courtesy of Harvard:

From Google Books, a link to Tarrasch's book on the 1908 world championship. I've translated his notes on the game pages.

Lasker's book on St. Petersburg 1909

Tarrasch's <Dreihundert Schachpartien>, which covers his career from the beginning through his match with Chigorin in 1893

Chess-play is a good and witty exercise of the mind for some kind of men, and fit for such melancholy, Rhasis holds, as are idle, and have extravagant impertinent thoughts, or troubled with cares, nothing better to distract their mind, and alter their meditations; invented (some say) by the general of an army in famine, to keep soldiers from mutiny: but if it proceed from overmuch study, in such case it may do more harm than good; it is a game too troublesome for some men's brains, too full of anxiety, all out as bad as study; besides it is a testy choleric game, and very offensive to him that loseth the mate. William the Conquerer, in his younger years, playing at chess with the Prince of France (Dauphine was not annexed to that crown in those days) losing a mate, knocked the chess-board about his pate, which was a cause afterwards of much enmity between them.

--Burton, The Anatomy of Melancholy

"Just because many great chess players were obnoxious jerks, doesn't mean that if you're an obnoxious jerk you're a great chess player."


"You are also a machine, as are Anand, Carlsen, Kasparov, and Fischer. You and the others are just inferior machines. Your idea of beautiful chess is simply faulty chess that is not caught in its faults."


"Alas, before the post mortem the gods have placed the game."

--Phony Benoni

"A chess engine is a great antidote to human optimism."


"[Y]ou have not been mean to me. Being mean to me is accepting my sacrifices and then taking me to a lost ending."

--Sally Simpson

>> Click here to see keypusher's game collections. Full Member

   keypusher has kibitzed 26618 times to chessgames   [more...]
   May-07-21 Kenneth Rogoff (replies)
keypusher: Sorry, I was responding to the wrong offensive post by Big Troll. < George Wallace: <WPE: A sport where usually a foot touches the ball and not some baboon.> Like this baboon?
   May-07-21 Jeremy Lim
keypusher: I understand he was really good, but didn't Brazier burn out too quickly?
   May-06-21 Robert James Fischer (replies)
keypusher: <Viking707: keypusher: the term "communist" is inappropriate. > It's irritating to get a post like this after I wrote <* I'm using the term "Communist" loosely, obviously.>. <I have no idea what the political ideologies of Botvinnik, Smyslov or Tal were>. If you ...
   May-05-21 Fischer vs Stein, 1967 (replies)
keypusher: < beatgiant: <perfidious> Are you sure? User: Howard is showing <Last seen Aug-04-20> and his post on this page from that date is his last kibitz.> Good golly. Now who is going to look up those articles in Chess Life he was always planning to check?
   May-05-21 Eljanov vs Carlsen, 2010 (replies)
keypusher: < Messiah: Trademark Justin. He goes for a line that is nowhere near being easy and obvious, then showcases a total failure to understand the basic principles of chess.> <Classical games: Magnus Carlsen beat Pavel Eljanov 6 to 0. Including rapid/exhibition games: Magnus ...
   May-05-21 World Championship Candidates (2020/21) (replies)
keypusher: <And most of the usual suspects have already appeared here with the standard off-topic axes to grind.> <beatgiant> I usually whine a lot more than you do, but this is a pretty informative series of posts...more than I want to know, really. <alexmagnus> is a fount
   May-05-21 Short vs Seirawan, 1990
keypusher: Courtesy of SF, there is an unusual mate in seven in the final position: 33....Bg6 34.hg Rxc7 35.g7+ Ke7 36.g8/Q Nb7 37.Qxa8 Nd6 38.Qf8+! Kxf8 39.exd6 *any* 40.Rg8#. Not that a master would ever play that out...
   May-04-21 Spielmann vs Vidmar, 1926 (replies)
keypusher: < perfidious: Link to the image with the players at Semmering: Does Nimzowitsch <ever> look at the camera? Though a lot of them aren't, in that photo.
   May-03-21 Hans-Joachim Federer (replies)
keypusher: <optimal play> Look up "motivated reasoning." You actually know a lot about this topic, but you still can't write a convincing post. Think about why that is, and do better.
   Apr-30-21 Fischer vs Spassky, 1972
keypusher: <Joshka: <gezafan> <backhanded way to demean Fischer> This is done all the time on Bobby's page, so what else is new;-) Anyone know what the "novelty" is that would have won for Spassky according to Karpov? Got to meet Karpov once, and had I known about this, would ...
(replies) indicates a reply to the comment.

Kibitzer's Corner
< Earlier Kibitzing  · PAGE 44 OF 44 ·  Later Kibitzing>
Premium Chessgames Member

<Ybr> diceman has a point, thinking less about BP couldn't hurt.

Feb-26-21  Ybr: <keypusher: <Ybr> diceman has a point, thinking less about BP couldn't hurt>

Of course.

<Diceman> makes good points from time to time and i took his point with humility and gratitude , quietly , while expressed my apologies explicitly.


P.s. some people may say that (i) <big pawn> is cultist and dangerous and therefore (ii) <ybr> is giving less attention than required not more to <big pawn>

However , i don't agree with point (ii)

I agree with <diceman> and you. Gratitude to both of you again. Regards.

Feb-26-21  Ybr: Part 2

Also , one more thing about <diceman> that inspires admiration - <diceman> and his fellow elite posters 'vowed ' that they would never post again in rogoff forum .

<Diceman> showed integrity in being true to his words - same can not be said about some of his fellow elite posters.

Strength of character and maturity of <diceman> is edifying.

I do miss insightful , incisive posts of <diceman> in rogoffland - especially his true love and concerns for chicago and black people. I can very well imagine how tough it would have been for <diceman> to stop posting about his true love in rogoffland. His strength of character is awe inspiring.


Mar-13-21  Ybr: As i relentlessly climb towards mountain top of meditation - level of purity of heart of jesus - i feel grateful to <johnlspouge> and <keypusher> for helping me by being stand for clarity/depth of thinking/understanding.

2) <we are impersonal love of jesus (compassion ) and intelligence (clarity/depth of thinking ) in action > - nisargadatta maharaj

3) <keypusher> says that he is not spiritual - of course , he is not , because unlike me , he is not seeking to know deepest/ultimate reality in an earnest manner , so unlike me , he is not a spiritual seeker.

However , if the touchstone of enlightened people (those people who are in league of jesus ) is compassion and intelligence , then he is far, far ahead of almost all religious christians.

4) and if we believe the philosophy of Absolute , at some point , (in this life or next incarnation ) , <keypusher> and <johnlspouge> would reach such a high level of compassion and intelligence that they will have spontaneous transcendental experience and would know deepest/ultimate reality spintaneously without ever deliberately seeking it.

5) even though, these days , i am striving to stay away from contentious conversations , i got to say this for the sake of completion - during capitol riots , anyone who disagreed with trump , was a traitor (so much so that 'hang mike pence ')

And on this site , anyone who disagrees with trump followers , is a traitor and therefore <keypusher> is a 'traitor' , is not a true conservative, is rino/lib/conservative poseur etc.

What do these guys want ? That <keypusher> should be a cultist like them instead of thinking for himself and being true to his stand for clarity/depth of thinking/understanding else instead of refuting his piint , they would attack him and call him 'traitor' and such ? Jesus ! Even Alex jones had to say like <enough is enough ! Line is crossed . I have to say that Qanon nonsense is absolute craziness > . At some point , everyone says <limit/line has been crossed, i got to speak up> . Everyone has some limits but not the cultists. I guess <keypusher> had to say for the sake of his integrity that <white genocide> is nonsense.

That is hopefully last i am talking about any issue that cultists don't want to hear - like i said , no point in engaging with cultists after i did my best and still in vain and after <keypusher> tried too but in vain.

Thank you . Regards.

Mar-15-21  Ybr: < al wazir: <OhioChessFan: Among the liberals, I have <Willber> left.> How embarrassing. <Willber G>, what are you doing wrong?>

It is just a matter of time.

Recently , <keypuaher> criticized a post of <saffuna> and cultists including <ocf> and <keyser soze> were having glee and using that criticism of <keypusher> , were hurling insults/ridicule at <saffuna>

None of the libs ganged up on <keypusher> , none of the libs said anything against <keypusher> for criticizing post of <saffuna>

And when <keypusher> refuted <white genocide> nonsense , these cultists ganged up against <keypusher>

<Keypusher> has integrity (he often criticizes position of libs ) , libs in rogoffland have integrity. Cultists have no integrity/honesty (therefore, sooner or later , <ocf> would turn on <willber g> too)

That is why i am not engaging with cultists any more . This is my last post on this cringe worthy subject.


Mar-15-21  Ybr: <Colonel Mortimer: <Jambow:> Excellent posts>

Yes, good posts by <jambow>

If <jambow> shows integrity/honesty , then it would be good to have second honest conservative in this forum after <keypusher>

2) can <jambow> see the dishonesty of cultists like <ohiochessfan>, <big pawn>/<george wallace> , <keyser soze> , <gezafan>

<Mort> can see their dishonesty and stupidity and that is why he was so quiet past few days as cultists were embarrassing themselves with <white genocide> nonsense

3) if <jambow> can see the dishonesty of cultists , then he would note what kind of a person <george wallace>/<big pawn> is.

Look at <big pawn> talking about <genetic fallacy> in post of <diademas> today

And for four hour non stop other day, he repeatedly committed <genetic fallacy> and <straw man> fallacy instead of answering refutation of <omv argument> based on Absolute. And i calmly , in a very civil and focused manner repeatedly corrected his logical fallacies. That did not stop him playing his stupid/dishonest games - he continued committing <genetic fallacy> and <straw man> fallacy and hurling vulgarity , vile abuses and such for four hours non stop because he knew he had lost debate very badly and he had no answer to refutation and i kept calm, civil , focused in response

4) <mort> knows that and that is why he was so quiet in all that embarrassment for cultists

5) i hope <jambow> sees what kind of person <george wallace>/<big pawn> is - <big pawn> is expert in spotting logical fallacies in post of others and he is a bigger expert in committing logical fallacies by tonnes when he or his fellow cultists lose debates. Whenever they lose debates <big pawn> goes in overdrive committing logical fallacies and vulgarity, vile abuses and such.

Mar-15-21  Ybr: <Colonel Mortimer: If we had honesty on this page, libs would be decrying how awful Biden is - crap speeches he can barely read off the teleprompter and a refusal to answer questions or give a single press conference. If we had honesty..>

Fine .

Libs don't have honesty.

I call out libs when it needs to be done (of course , i can not engage with every conversation - i don't have time , energy for that , not every topic interests me either)

And honesty of <big pawn>/<george wallace> ?

Consider this :

<Nok> is like : <<gezafan> , did you see that <ybr> refuted/destroyed your <white genocide> nonsense ?>

<Gezafan> is like : <well, i will ignore refutation and instead will commit genetic fallacy by hurling insults at <ybr>. And <big pawn>/<george wallace> is the most dishonest person in this forum. He would fool me and use me by saying that my <white genocide> nonsense is very smart and he would also , instead of answering refutation , commit <genetic fallacy> and hurl vulfarity, vile abuses and such at <ybr>>

<Big pawn> /<george wallace> is like <you got it right <gezafan>. Whenever i and my fellow cuktists lose debate , i go in overdrive committing <genetic fallacy> and other logical fallacies and hurling vulgarity, vile abuses and such. Your <white genocide > nonsense is awesome and i am going to hurl abuses/vulgarity at <ybr> now >

<Keypusher> is like : <argument of <ybr> is very cogent and thoroughly refutes <white genocide> nonsense. Let me explain how...>

<Big pawn>/<george wallace> is like <same routine to <keypusher> now. I will commit logical fallacy and hurl abuses at <keypusher> now>

<Ohiochessfan> , <keyser soze> are like <yes , <big pawn> , we will join you in abusing <keypusher> and <ybr> and committing <genetic fallacy>>

And today <big pawn>/<george wallace> is pointing out <genetic fallacy> in the post of <diademas> and <ocf> saying that all libs except <willber g> are dishonest.


Mar-15-21  Ybr: Part 2
So <mort> , it seems that you and i both want honesty in this forum.

Tell me any topic where libs are dishonest. I may not have time to research , so i would request <keypusher> about that topic (we can hope that <keypusher> would be kind enough to help , if and when he has time) and this way you and i both will make libs honest , first

And after that we will make <big pawn>/<george wallace> and other right wingers honest .

Deal , <mort > ?

Thank you . Regards.

Premium Chessgames Member
  gezafan: I read Nizzy's comments about how my contention that White Genocide is taking place has been "refuted." It has not. I'm guessing his contention is based on ignorance of what genocide is.

Many people think of genocide as being strictly limited to physical violence. This is called hard genocide.

There is another kind of genocide called soft genocide. It's genocide through other means. This is what is happening to white people.

For example there is a plan and concerted effort to persuade white people not to have children or to have non-white children instead in order to reduce their numbers. This meets the definition of genocide as defined by the UN.

I made a lengthy exposition of genocide in Big Pawn's Free Speech forum. It discusses the 10 elements of genocide, 9 of which are happening to white people.

Anyone interested in why I think White Genocide is taking place should read it.

Mar-17-21  Ybr: <gezafan><Many people think hard genocide is the only kind of genocide there is. So when these people don't see a hard genocide taking place they dismiss White Genocide. This is a mistake.>

So , no hard genocide happening in america ? So , you see and admit that you were making a fool of yourself all along for years by posting cases of any random murder of some white by some black and screaming '<whitegenocide> , <white genocide >' ?

Don't do that . <big pawn> and other ekite posters of his gang make fools of themselves all the time however they never concede when refuted , instead , they hurl <genetic fallacy > and other logical fallacies and vulgarity , vile abuses and such while labeling the refuted nonsense as 'awesome posts'.


Mar-17-21  Ybr: The cherry picking that <gezafan> has been doing for years , he could as well have done that cherry picking as follows (it would still be extremely ridiculous but still less ridiculous than his usual cherry picking )

 1) <It also found anti-Latino hate crime rose 8.7% from 485 in 2018 to 527 in 2019 to the highest total since 2010. The killing of 22 people at the El Paso Walmart last year is the worst hate crime attack ever recorded by the FBI, according to the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism.> <Gezafan><22 latinos killed at el paso by a white man...only reason they were killed is because they were latinos.... Latino genocide by white people and far right crazies like <big pawn> and <gezafan> don't care >

2) <Black people were targeted in hate crimes more than any other group in the US. > <Gezafan>< white people are killing black people all over america. <Black geocide> by white people and far right crazies like <big pawn> and <gezafan>don't care >

Premium Chessgames Member
  diceman: <Ybr:

<big pawn>/<george wallace> <mort>
<big pawn>
<Ohiochessfan> <Nok>
<keyser soze>
<willber g>
<johnlspouge> >

Poor, poor, keypusher!

<Ybr: <diceman> and his fellow elite posters 'vowed ' that they would never post again in rogoff forum .>

I did no such thing liar.


He says "regards" but as a decade long repeat offender, he has no regard for this site, its rules, the administrators, or the posters on it.

Just a bigoted, broken, low intelligent, emotional train wreck, who obsesses over BP 24/7.

His only real job is to have Goebbels media
drag his low intelligence around by the nose hairs.

Ybr, a true <cultist>!

Mar-17-21  Ybr: What is your problem <diceman> ?

Your hero <big pawn> was refuted both in <omv argument> and <white genocude> . He lost debate badly and in return he hurled <genetic fallacies> and vulgarity , vile abuses and such in tonnes and still doing it. I would not be seen in rogoffland for many days now and your hero <big pawn> would keep on spewing his dishonesty and venom every day in rogoffland.

Instead of barking at me , spewing venom at me , go talk to <big pawn> and see if you can teach him some honesty . And learn some honesty yourself too. Instead of worrying if i am obsessed , go take care of obsession of your hero <big pawn> . Look at what he doing at rogoffland everyday. How come you have nothing to say about his madness and by implication your madness too.

You people are out of your minds. When you lose debates so thoroughly/decisively , have some dignity to show some honesty. stop wasting your lives , stop talking to me. Go talk to your hero <big pawn> , if you have any shame and sense.

Mar-17-21  Ybr: After losing debate to me , for 4 hours non stop , <big pawn> , hero of <diceman> hurled <genetic fallacy> and other logical fallacies and vulgarity and vile a uses and such at me because he had no answer to refutation

And i calmly , in a civil manner , remained focused and corrected his logical fallacies non stop.

And <diceman> has problem with me and not with his hero <big pawn> . If <diceman> had any shame and decency he would never show his face to me or any other person who has to suffer such kind of behavior non stop by his hero <big pawn>

Don't you see how thoroughly your hero <big pawn> lost debates and after that what he is doing.? Go talk to <big pawn> and tell him to have some honesty and decency and then you won't need to talk to me

Or may be your point is that <big pawn> is not a human but a disgrace to humanity instead , so why bother about him - is that your point ? And are you any better than him ?. This is the last time i am bothering to talk to you <diceman> unless you show me you deserve any response from me.

And for next many days , i won't be seen in rogoffland , because as you rightly say , people like you and <big pawn> should be avoided by civilized people.


Mar-18-21  Ybr: Today is my last day , this is my last post at ever (or at least for a long time...for many months now , I would be gone) , destiny willing.

1) I have thoroughly/decisively defeated <big pawn> in omv argument debate .

However , we know what kind of a person <big pawn> is - dishonest and ...

When I am gone , he will talk all kind of rot behind me. If <keypusher>/<johnlspouge>/<willber g> /<tomlinsky> and/or others ask me to defeat him once more in <omv argument> , I will come back to put this dishonest person in his place once again.

Remember the standards of debate at <free nonsense zone> - if someone fails to answer the refutation , he loses.

<big pawn>/<George wallace> came to debate me however he had no answer to refutation , so instead of answering refutation , he asked me to teach philosophy of Absolute to him , apparently , confident in his arrogance that he would show that he is smart and I don't know what I am talking about . It ended up very badly for him , I answered all his questions and then he ran away saying like < even though <ybr> answered all questions of <big pawn> , <ybr> spoke blather too along the way>

And then after a month or so , he came back to debate me , apparently hoping that he would do better this time . This time too , he had no answer to refutation, and once again he asked me to teach philosophy of Absolute to him , once again I answered all his questions and this time , I did not even give him chance to say like < even though <ybr> answered all questions of <big pawn> , <ybr> spoke blather too along the way>

For four hours non stop , he hurled <genetic fallacy> and other logical fallacies and vulgarity,vile abuses , blather and such and I calmly in a civil focused way corrected his logical fallacies for four hours non stop.

According to the standards of debate of <free nonsense zone> , one loses debate for much , much less.

<big pawn> failed to answer refutation.

He does not understand philosophy of Absolute let alone understanding refutation of <omv argument> based on Absolute.

Even <troller> hinted at the refutation of <omg argument> based on Absolute - see my last post at his forum

Once again - body dies , not us , we are eternal Absolute , there is no god other than us. Subjective empirical evidence of this fact is had once we reach very high level of compassion , clarity/depth of thinking/understanding, dispassion. Perhaps , <keypusher>/<johnlspouge> would reach that level in this life or next and then they would have spontaneous subjective empirical experience of deepest/ultimate reality

Mar-18-21  Ybr: Part 2

2) I have thoroughly/decisively defeated <gezafan>/<big pawn> in his stupid <crime post> debate too

I am pained at the attacks at white people.

At the same time

 i) <It also found anti-Latino hate crime rose 8.7% from 485 in 2018 to 527 in 2019 to the highest total since 2010. The killing of 22 people at the El Paso Walmart last year is the worst hate crime attack ever recorded by the FBI, according to the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism.> 

<22 latinos killed at el paso by a white man...only reason they were killed is because they were latinos....  far right crazies like <big pawn> and <gezafan> don't care. Rather they enjoy it >

ii) <Black people were targeted in hate crimes more than any other group in the US. > 

< white people are killing black people all over america.  far right crazies like <big pawn> and <gezafan>don't care . Rather they enjoy it>

(iii) in response to the stupid <crime post> of <gezafan> , such posts can be posted everyday.

Thank you guys .

Good bye for now. Regards

Premium Chessgames Member
  keypusher: <YBr> <gezafan> <diceman>

Hi. Sorry, I'm not a very reliable reader of my own forum.

<gezafan> <YBr> To a first approximation, there is no hate crime in the U.S. There's just crime.

Mar-24-21  Ybr: keypusher: <I think <keypusher> has made it clear that he is against curbing speech of any sort. > That is not true. Repeating myself yet again, the First Amendment does not protect me if I tell you to drink strychnine to cure your constipation, or if I urge you to buy my beachfront property that is really swampland, or if I try to persuade you to buy shares in my worthless corporation.

Moving closer to what you have in mind (and repeating myself again), the Supreme Court in NY Times v. Sullivan and Brandenburg v. Ohio limited the scope of the legal prohibitions against libel and incitement. But it did not eliminate them. And I'm fine with that.

There's a lot more to say about all these topics, but I don't have the time or inclination to dive in right now. But for now, BobDole says: <Stop lying about my record!>.

Mar-24-21  Ybr: <keypusher: <YBr> <gezafan> <diceman> Hi. Sorry, I'm not a very reliable reader of my own forum.

<gezafan> <YBr> To a first approximation, there is no hate crime in the U.S. There's just crime.>

Thank you for this post , <keypusher>.

I always thought so - that hate crime in america is almost non existent.


Mar-24-21  Ybr: keypusher: The number of hate crimes in the United States is, to a first approximation, zero. Seems like a good time to point that out. The latest proof of this is a <FACT SHEET> re <Anti-Asian Hate Crime Reported to Police in America's Largest Cities: 2020> courtesy of the Center for the Study of Hate & Extremism (CSUSB).

This document is the source of the heavily-reported stat that hate crimes against Asians in 15 major cities* in the U.S. increased by 150% in 2020 compared to 2019.

And yes, that is literally true. The number of anti-Asian hate crimes reported to police in those 15 cities increased from 49 (forty-nine) in 2019 to 122 (one hundred and twenty-two) in 2020. See page one of the link.

In other words, a rounding error increased to a rounding error. I said earlier that white people would die of old age while waiting to be genocided. Well, Asians will endure the heat death of the universe while waiting to be hate-crimed.

I'm going to repeat some numbers from 2018 I've posted before ( Kenneth Rogoff (kibitz #424663)) to reinforce the insignificance-verging-on-nonexistence of hate crime.

<According to the FBI, there were 4,748 hate crimes committed against persons in 2018. 78% consisted of simple assault or intimidation, which means that around 1,042 were more serious offenses (murder, rape, robbery, aggravated assault).

That same year, the total number of reported murders, robberies, rapes, and aggravated assaults in the United States was about 1.2 million. Hate crimes were 0.087% of that figure.>

Consistent with those numbers, in the 15 large cities discussed in the CSUSB report, <all> reported hate crimes in 2020 amounted to 1,717, incidentally a 7% decrease from 2019.

But just because Asians have nothing to worry about from hate crime does not mean they have nothing to worry about from crime. Asians are the great exception to the general rule in the United States that most crime is intra-racial. Percent of violent incidents against a race/ethnicity committed by offenders of same race/ethnicity, U.S., 2018:

White: 62.1%
Black: 70.3%
Hispanic: 45.4%
Asian: 24.1% (see p. 14)

Of all offenses against Asians, 24.1% are committed by whites, 27.5% by blacks, 7% Hispanic, and 14.4% by "other", a figure the report wisely advises be treated with caution.

Asians are not, however, particularly likely to be victims of crime -- rather the reverse. But they are even less likely to be perpetrators than to be victims. Comprising 6.3% of the overall American population, they are only 2.5% of the offenders and 4.2% of the victims in violent incidents. (see p. 12). Notably, although blacks account for 27.5% of violent crimes against Asians, Asian violent crime against blacks is for all practical purposes non-existent. Even more non-existent than hate crimes.

For you, geza: <As it does every year, black-on-white violent crime dwarfed white-on-black violent crime in 2018.>

<[T]he Bureau of Justice Statistics released its 2018 survey of criminal victimization. According to the study, there were 593,598 interracial violent victimizations (excluding homicide) between blacks and whites last year, including white-on-black and black-on-white attacks. Blacks committed 537,204 of those interracial felonies, or 90 percent, and whites committed 56,394 of them, or less than 10 percent. >

I expect the ratio will be more extreme in 2020.

I might write something about various aspects of the current racial hysteria, but it's all boring.

* San Diego, Cincinnati, Chicago, Phoenix, Denver, Houston, Washington, DC, Philadelphia, Cleveland, Dallas, San Francisco, San Jose, Seattle, Boston, Los Angeles, New York City. Combined population about 30 million. Number of Asians probably about 3-4 million.

Mar-25-21  Ybr: <Colonel Mortimer: <keypusher: The number of hate crimes in the United States is, to a first approximation, zero. Seems like a good time to point that out.> Way to go, you're in the liberal dog box now. Facts don't trump liberal narratives.>

<George Wallace: <Colonel Mortimer: <keypusher: The number of hate crimes in the United States is, to a first approximation, zero. Seems like a good time to point that out.> Way to go, you're in the liberal dog box now. Facts don't trump liberal narratives.>

Nah, all the libs know he's a lib too, so if he says something inconsistent, it pretty much gets swept under the rug.

<Keypusher> is a lib. He's 100% Orange Man Bad too.

Look at how the libs reacted to <al wazir> advocating strongly and stubbornly for pedophila. They let it go without an ounce of outrage.

And regarding hate crime, let us remember that America is so racist that Jussie Smollett had to hire to <black dudes> to commit a hate crime against him.>

Ok, i am for all practical purposes still on break from rogoff , however , i must point out that

1) the logical fallacy that <george wallace> and <mort> committed in this instance is called <genetic fallacy>

2) and as i repeatedly mentioned - <george wallace> and <big pawn> are very quick and sharp in pointing out <genetic fallacy> in the posts of others , however, they commit this very logical fallacy whenever they don't have reply to anything that they don't like, that contradicts their narrative.

3) so , in this case , they don't have any reopy to the post of <keypusher>

4) i wish <george wallace> , <big pawn> , <mort> stop dragging down the quality of forum and stop being sore losers. I wish they learn from elite posters and raise their level and stop being bottom feeders.


May-01-21  rbd: <keypusher: <diademas> <nok> I said it wasn’t possible to know what Jesus was really like, and I need to stick to that. But I re-read Mark’s Gospel (it’s pretty short) paying attention to the preaching, and stopping when I got to Holy Week. It's of a piece, it's coherent, it's not particularly political. Taking it on its own terms, you can see why its principal figure makes such an extraordinary impression on people. He seems very real.

He’s of humble background (Mark 6:3, when he goes back to Galilee and preaches in the synagogue, and the locals say [all quotes from the KJV] “Is this not the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.”) He preaches to humble people, publicans and sinners (Mark 2:15-17) in plain language.

Two themes predominate: he is against religious formalism (2:23-28, 3:1-16, 7:1-16 etc.) and he has an extremely demanding moral code (10:12 “Whoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her”). Sometimes the two themes come together, in very earthy language (7:18-23 “Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into a man, it cannot defile him; Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats? And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”) It’s also in Mark that he says that if your hand, foot, or eye offend you, cut it off or pluck it out, as applicable, because it’s better to be maimed and enter the kingdom of God than to be cast whole into hell fire “Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched” (9:43-50).

He definitely preaches to the poor, and is no admirer of the rich. It’s in Mark that he says it’s easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of Heaven. But note the context. A rich young man comes and asks what he must do. Jesus says he must keep the Commandments. The man says, I do that, what else? (10:21-23 “Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor [note that he DOESN’T say “give to me”], and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me. And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved; for he had great possessions. And Jesus looked round about, and saith unto his disciples, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!”).

Riches are bad because they separate you from God, but disdain of riches doesn’t seem to be tied to any political program. Which makes sense, because Jesus also thinks the end is at hand (9:1, “Verily I say unto you, That there shall be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.”) People who think the world is about to end rarely specialize in political agitation.

Now he very much preaches to the Jews. (A “Syrophenician” woman asked him to help with her possessed daughter, and he said bluntly (7:26-28) “Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children’s bread, and feed it unto the dogs. And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children’s crumbs.” And for her humility and quick wit her daughter is cured.) But within a couple of generations universal salvation was being preached in his name around the Mediterranean. And you can see that what we have in Mark would appeal to ordinary people, Jew or non-Jew.

Survivorship bias is real, texts and messages change. But it’s easier for me to believe that people who proselytized in his name took elements from his preaching that were actually there. Rather than that they took a first-century version of a Weather Underground leader and, more or less instantly, turned his message on its head.>

May-01-21  rbd: Part 2

Aren't you missing something, <keypusher> ?

2) you say like <jesus was very influential , his influence spread very quickly like a wild fire and very widely>

So , why was he influential ? Did you ask yourself that or you completely missed the only point that matters about jesus?

Do you think that jesus was influential because of the things you posted in this post of yours ? All that you posted here , which you call his teachings , can that nonsense which you label as teachings really influence anyone ?

This is the question that you need to ask otherwise you missing the point completely. And that is why i like to stay away from this site , generally - such superficial conversations and despite that people like <diademas> and <moronovich> have such high opinion of themselves .....

May-01-21  rbd: Part 3

If you want to know what jesus was like , then you need to look for the answer to the question "why was jesus so influential ?"

Of course you and i both know that all those stories about resurrection , walking on water and other miracles are laughable children's stories . So if we discount those stupid stories , was jesus influential because some idiots believed stupid stories (and still do) or there was something else which was cause of his influence - that is where you guys need to focus.

2) and focus of <nok> on his political thoughts/actions is completely ridoculous.

There is no reason to believe that jesus ever expressed any political thoughts publicly. Take the example of raman mahrishi - he spent all years of his long life in colonial india under imperial british rule (except last 3 years of his life) , however , he never talked about anything political , never got involved in politics - he was one of the greatest spiritual sages of modern india and there are many , many such examples.

3) jesus was killed because of his spiritual views , not because of his political view/actions - a simple google search would reveal that.


May-01-21  rbd: Pary 4

<Keypusher> and <diademas> are like : 1) anything that is written in bible has little historical significance. So from that perspective , there is no reason to believe that jesus existed.

2) so , let us discount bible

3) however , it is highly probable that jesus existed because reverence for him spread very fast like fire and spread very widely.

Me : ok. Fair enough. I am listening. Go on pleass.

<Keypusher> and <didaemas> are like : 4) well, now let us try to figure out what jesus was like.

5) and for that , let us go through bible

Me : 1)gentleman , isn't your point (5) contradicting your point (2)?

It is.

2) earlier , you guys said like <only way to know what jesus was like is divine intervention>

Well, divine intervention is sufficient but not necessary - high level of maturity and clarity/depth of understanding would also do.

I know someone who has that kind of maturity and he is not at all spiritual . He got that level of maturity by observing life/world and his own mind independently without ever formally studying psychology/spirituality/philosophy etc.

And he understands that part of bible when told to him which requires that kind of maturity to understand that part of bible.

So , from historical perspective , bible is worthless . However , from the perspective of 'philosophy'/spirituality , some part of bible is very mature.

You guys are focusing on that part of bible which is not only worthless from the perspective of 'philosophy'/spirituality but worthless from the perspective of history as well .

In short , you are trying to infer value from that part of bible which does not have any value and while you are at it you are wearing your fancy hats of world's best detective/investigative journalist/lawyer etc.

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