< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 5820 OF 5820 ·
|Apr-25-15|| ||Stevie King: Too sexy in here. Danko Jones, "Bounce": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNQ...|
|Apr-25-15|| ||ljfyffe: Many an artist has been criticized because they were able to enrich themselves by the very system they criticize; but the artist was not rolling in dough when starting out. For example, the music and message of an artist must connect with the audience or else the musician would not be able to make a living at it. Capitalism causes alienation by its very nature in that its workers must be able to sell labour in an attempt to gain a decent living. If the music and lyrics provide the workers relief from their baffling situation, there is money to be
made, and in some cases, lots of it.
<"There must be someway out if here", said the joker to the thief/
There is too much confusion", I can't get no relief/Businessmen, they drink my wine, ploughman dig my earth/None of them along the line know what any of it is worth,> In other words, there is an intuitional feeling within the human spirit that suggests there be things that money just cannot be the measure of; Dylan's transcendental message expresses this, thereby giving some relief to the alienated; he is far from a postmodernist or existentionalist, as some crutics would have it. His music is an escape, if only for a short
time, from the black dog of alienaton. Country and Westen musuc, is a genre that serves much the same function.
|Apr-25-15|| ||ljfyffe: critics, music|
|Apr-25-15|| ||Karposian: <ljfyffe: Dylan's transcendental message expresses this, thereby giving some relief to the alienated; he is far from a postmodernist or existentionalist, as some crutics would have it. His music is an escape, if only for a short time, from the black dog of alienaton. Country and Westen musuc, is a genre that serves much the same function.>|
You know, <ljfyffe>, as I'm sure you know, in academic circles the term ‘postmodernism’’ is often used to describe the cultural conditions of late capitalism. The very same conditions Bob Dylan lashes out against in, say, "Maggie's Farm", which is the most powerful renunciation of wage labor in the modern capitalist society that I can think of:
<I ain’t gonna work for Maggie’s brother no more/No, I ain’t gonna work for Maggie’s brother no more/Well, he hands you a nickel/He hands you a dime/He asks you with a grin/If you’re havin’ a good time/Then he fines you every time you slam the door/I ain’t gonna work for Maggie’s brother no more>
And remember, in popular music, ‘postmodernism' is used to identify the mixing of popular and art music, as exemplified by Bob Dylan and late Beatles.
So, the postmodernist element in Dylan's artistic output is well documented.
BTW, I kow it wasn't your intention, but I think you are selling Dylan a bit short when you refer to his music as a sort of escapism. He is so much more politically and culturally significant than that, as your own interesting posts on Dylan here on this forum illustrate so well.
Country and Western music on the other hand, now, <that is> escapism (although there are some major exceptions to that rule, the great Johnny Cash, for example).
|Apr-25-15|| ||Travis Bickle: Hey how about a couple tunes from Captain Beefheart!? ; P|
Upon The My O My
Big Eyed Beans From Venus
|Apr-25-15|| ||Stevie King: Too freaky-scary.|
|Apr-25-15|| ||Stevie King: ljfyffe, wait! Escapism isn't necessarily a bad Word...escapism can be great; you two are just tough guy chessplayers mad about reality and sacrifice. Lol.
But ljfyffe's on to something That C&W has a palliative tome whereas hip hop I guess reminds you of how hard it is.
But remember what's idealized--economically for hip hop it's the nouveau riche lifestyle and for C&W it's rural life by definition, although there's clearly crossover.
It breaks my heart to see someone only like Johnny Cash's music in C&W.
Or even just musicians of his era.
Genres don't have quality difference, by definition.
|Apr-25-15|| ||Travis Bickle: Go Blackhawks!!
Free For All - Ted Nugent
|Apr-25-15|| ||Travis Bickle: AP - This just in off the wire... The Chicago Blackhawks have defeated the Nashville predators 4-3 to win the series!! ; P|
Sound the goal aye!!
|Apr-25-15|| ||Travis Bickle: The Hawks they were Smokin' on the ice tonight Aye! ; P|
Smokin' - Boston
|Apr-25-15|| ||Travis Bickle: It's A Long Way To The Top (if you wanna Rock n Roll) - ACDC
|Apr-25-15|| ||Travis Bickle: Here were the Blackhawks just a short time ago...
|Apr-25-15|| ||Travis Bickle: Let It Roll - BTO
|Apr-25-15|| ||Travis Bickle: http://chi-guy.com/wp-content/uploa...|
Coach Q - "OK men listen up. Nice game there aye... Go ahead on Rush Street and drink yer beers & yer whiskey, kiss a few pretty girls, get in a few fights & be back on Monday fer practice aye? Good game... Now i'ts time to go to work and play some good hockey aye!?"
Sweet Home Chicago - Eric Clapton's Blues Players from Crossroads Concert in Chicago... ; P
|Apr-26-15|| ||Mr. V: Can a premium member do a search for me? I'm looking for a game I recall I really enjoyed, but all I remember is it contained a kibitz post of a Joseph Conrad quote about resignation.|
If a premium member out there could be so kind as to find this game with the "search Kibitzing" feature, I'd really appreciate it.
|Apr-26-15|| ||ljfyffe: <Karposian>Agreed: postmodernism is both a style of art (fragmented presentation) corresponding to a cultural outlook (one viewpoint is just as good as another), but, as you
point out Dylan lashes out at the latter by attacking how capitalist society imprisons and alienates the wage-earner, a romantic notion of the transcendentalists that we are born free, but everywhere we are in chains. Marx would later say that the workers have nothing to lose but their chains.
<Darkness at the break of noon/
Shadows even the silver-spoon/
The handmade blade, the child's baloon/
Elipses both the sun and moon/
To understand you know too soon/
There is no sense in trying>
Referencing Arthur Koestler(Darkness At Noon), who himself turned from the bleakness of extentialism of a noncaring Universe to the optimism of a caring one revealed through transcendal intuition: offers hope of removing society's pliers that bend us out of shape.
I woud call Dylan's music diversionary and escapist in the sense that it does not urge confrontation of capitalism head on, ie that one must not only interpret society, one must change it. And music of all types gives some form of relief from the humdrum of everyday labouring for another's profit; even "cry in your beer" Country and Western with its "ye who
enters here, abandons all hope" mentality. But, for the most part, the quality of that music
compares poorly with that of Dylan's, for sure.
|Apr-26-15|| ||Stevie King: ljfyffe, I just woke up and tied on my housecoat and I'm getting my instant coffee and cheese on toast and sitting down to "Meet The Press".
In other words, give me some time to consider your academic work on here and maybe I coule type up a rebuttal some time later today.|
|Apr-26-15|| ||offramp: <Karne: I am very curious, who has the played the most chess games in history? Viktor Korchnoi seems to be an interesting candidate, with over 4,000 games>|
It is a guy named Farago. He hasn't got many games here at cg.com (but look at the kibitzing on his page) but other sources well give you well over 4000 top-class games.
|Apr-26-15|| ||Stevie King: <Why does everybody want to bring a little bit of where they're from to where they are?>|
|Apr-26-15|| ||HeMateMe: how to go drinking in Korea:
I would guess it's similar to drinking in Japan, among businessmen. If you are a foreigner over there, it's expected that you will go out with your clients and get piggy drunk.
How do these people live to be 100 if their livers get such abuse?
|Apr-26-15|| ||ljfyffe: Typos:balloon, existentialism, transcendentalism
in my above statement.
|Apr-26-15|| ||Stevie King: ljfyffye, I doubt Dylan uses the word postmodern in his conversation much. Or capitalism. Too on the nose.
But he will say "Democracy don't rule the world/ you better get that through your head/ the world is ruled by violence but I guess that's better left unsaid".
So I think he's into pursuing the truth but he also wants to obscure it a little, oh...'bout 90% to 10%.|
|Apr-26-15|| ||ljfyffe: <Stevie King> I don't recall whether or not Dylan ever used the word "capitalism" in his protest days, but you don't have to be a whether man to kow what he was singing about in Maggie's Farm, Masters of War, and having a thousand telephones that don't ring. Like wise, with postmodernism when he says don't pay much attention a lot of contemporary music, but listen to old folk and blues stuff. And the dark existential element of post modern philosophy, if you can call it that is seen in lyrics like:
<Every moment of existence seems like some dirty trick/Happiness can come suddenly and leave just as quick/Any minute of the day the bubble can burst/Try to make things better for some, sometimes you just end up making it tousands times worst>.
But Dylan boarded the Titanic on the transcendental side:<The boulevards of cypress
trees,/The masquerade of birds and bees,/the petals blinking white, the wind has blown,>
Without having to be a weatherman, blowing throughout the old folk and blues songs, Dylan felt the transcendental winds a-blown'.|
|Apr-26-15|| ||ljfyffe: to know, attention to|
|Apr-26-15|| ||ljfyffe: As Woody Guthrie said, "If you want to learn anything, steal it!".|
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