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| Jul-16-08 | | patzer2: White's first mistake appears to be 12. Bb5?, when 12...c6!  may be the winning move which set up the rest of Black's combination(s).Instead, 12. Bxd5 Qxd5  keeps White in the game. |
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| Jul-16-08 | | patzer2: <PinnedPiece: Unsatisfactory puzzle.> Well, I'd say it's tougher than our usual Wednesday fare if you consider the declined options. However, "unsatisfactory" or not is an individual's personal call. For me, I rather enjoyed the mental work out -- even if it was far more than what I was expecting for a mid-week puzzle. |
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| Jul-16-08 | | Grampmaster: Why 16...b5. Why not 16...Qh3 immediately? If 17.Nf6+ gxf6 and only 18.Qxf4 exf4 stops the immediate mate by Black, who is now left with a Queen advantage versus two White bishops after one of the bishops captures the remaining hanging Black knight.
What am I missing with this line?
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| Jul-16-08 | | zenpharaohs: patzer2: "Here's my computer-checked analysis:
<14...Bf3!!>
This demolition decoy (sham) sacrifice offer wrecks White's pawn structure, and gives Black a decisive attack against the resulting weakened King position. <15. gxf3>"
If you let the computer run a bit longer, you will not see 15 gxf3 recommended. It is Rybka's move up to 13 ply, but in the 14th ply Rybka changes to 15 Ng3, and then 15 Qe3. This move is preferred for several more ply, and then 15 Rfe1 comes into the picture. The thing about Qe3 and Rfe1 is that there is a transposition: 15 Qe3 Bxg2
16 Rfe1 Re6
and
15 Rfe1 Bxg2
16 Qe3 Re6
which takes a while for the computer to figure out.
I ran this for quite a while last night and still haven't sorted out what is the correct reply to 14 ... Bf3, but at the moment it looks like 15 Qe3 or 15 Rfe1 could be the way to go. This problem is a lot more complicated than the advertised difficulty. |
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| Jul-16-08 | | MiCrooks: I think it is simply that you have Qh3 in hand to force White to give you the Q for the Knight, so until White threatens to give himself some way out, you can do other things instead that in the long run give you a better position. |
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| Jul-16-08 | | patzer2: <zenpharaohs> Thanks for your commentary on the declined responses to 15...Bf3! I'm interested at how your deeper computer look goes. I'm pretty much playing it out move-by-move (with a lot of sliding back and forth) against Friz 8 at 15 ply with my hash table set at 512MB (2 Ghz 64 bit AMD processor with 2Meg of Ram), but I suspect I have no where near your capability --especially if you're running a multiple processor version of Rybka |
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| Jul-16-08 | | mworld: <JonathanJ: what about f5 ... Qg5?> realizing that the white knight was the queen's protection I too was looking at f5 as the move to scare away the knight...the only problem was that white had the reply Bb3+ that seemed to throw a wrench in my knights plans to attack the queen (since I would have to capture the checking bishop or block the check) |
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| Jul-16-08 | | kevin86: I saw the 14...Nh3+ sac (followed by Bf3). I don't know if it goes anywhere,but I thought it looked good |
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| Jul-16-08 | | Turkito: if 16. move of white is knight on g5 how would black respond? |
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| Jul-16-08 | | YouRang: Hey, whattya know, I got it! :-)
Sort of. I really wanted to play ...Qg5, but the white knight was preventing me. Looking for ways to bother the knight, I considered 14...Bf3!, threatening to eat the knight or the g2 pawn. White is thus compelled to capture with 15.gxf3 after which h3 is unguarded and 15...Qh4 threatens ...Qh3 followed by ...Qg2# or ...Qxf3+, whichever way things go. White has even helpfully constructed a wall of pawns (on f2 and f3) preventing white defenders from helping out the their king. :-) I didn't see any good way for white to get out of trouble. It appeared that he would have to give up his queen for lesser material to prevent mate. |
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| Jul-16-08 | | YouRang: <Turkito: if 16. move of white is knight on g5 how would black respond?> If referring to the game as played, then 16.Ng5? Qxg5 17.Kh1 Qg2# Or were you referring to some other variation? |
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| Jul-16-08 | | YouRang: I have to admit that I didn't give much serious consideration to lines if white declines the bishop sac. I figured that at worst I had ...Bxg2, blowing the lid off of black's defense, and making a huge hole on h3 which my knight and (shortly) my queen can get to. Adding pressure with the rook lift (...Re6 and ...Rg6/...Rh6) also looks inviting. So, I had no concrete plan for that contingency, but I had a warm feeling about it. :-) |
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| Jul-16-08 | | Turkito: Yourang, just forget it.Sometimes neurons in the brain loose their way to go home. :-)) |
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| Jul-16-08 | | Some call me Tim: I'm with <awfulhangover>...I can't see why Black did not play ...Qh4 after 15. Bb4. But W's move hardly rates a ?? since he is lost no matter what he does. I agree this was harder than most Wednesdays but it is instructive. Amazing how helpless White is against the attack. His pieces are far from the castle and can do nothing. White may decline with 15. Ng3 but 15...Bxg2 wins a pawn and still produces a brutal attack. Too bad he can't play 15.g3 as 15...Nh3 is mate. |
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| Jul-16-08 | | ray564k: Bit of a beginner here but I was wondering about
12 Nc4-
seems that white has then to play
13. Qe1
Nxg2!
Either
14 Kxg2
Qh4
and then white cannot prevent mate.
Or White plays Qc1, but Nf4 forces white to move his queen again? Leaving Bf3 to move to a mate... There must be a flaw somewhere but maybe someone would help me find it!? |
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| Jul-16-08 | | Kasputin: Darn - a dumb oversight! I thought 14 ...Nc4 would win the white bishop. I could see that White shouldn't play 15. Qc1 because ...Ne2+. I also saw that taking the black c4 knight, allows the capture of the white queen with the black queen - just didn't see that the black queen was protected :( |
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| Jul-16-08 | | Kasputin: Well, after quickly playing through the game moves and glancing at the comments of the other kibitzers, I am almost glad that I made such an embarassing oversight :-) |
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| Jul-16-08 | | Hector Maluy: In this position I would do 14)..Bf3. My plan is to put my queen in h4.
If black takes bishop 15)gxf3 Qh4 seems to be dangerous, how could white stop 16)..Queen to h3?
What do you think? |
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| Jul-16-08 | | YouRang: <ray564k: Bit of a beginner here but I was wondering about 12 Nc4-
seems that white has then to play
13. Qe1
Nxg2!
Either
14 Kxg2
Qh4
and then white cannot prevent mate.
Or White plays Qc1, but Nf4 forces white to move his queen again? Leaving Bf3 to move to a mate... There must be a flaw somewhere but maybe someone would help me find it!?> I'm having a hard time making sense of this. :-(
When you say <12 Nc4->, do you mean that to be black's 12th move (i.e. 12...Nc4)? If so, white would just take the knight: 13.Bxc4.
Perhaps you meant 12...Nf4? If so, it's not a bad move, but I don't see why this compels 13.Qe1. Or maybe you got the move numbers wrong, and you meant 14...Nc4? But again, it doesn't compel 15.Qe1. So, please check your moves and move numbers, and try again. :-) |
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| Jul-16-08 | | RandomVisitor: After 8...0-0
1: William Nicholas Watson - Praveen Mahadeo Thipsay, Frunze (Kyrgyzstan) 1985
click for larger viewAnalysis by Rybka 2.3.2a mp : <23-ply> 1. = (0.18): 9.Ng5 Na5 10.Qh5 h6 11.Ne4 Nxc4 12.dxc4 Nf4 13.Bxf4 exf4 14.Qe5 Qd7 15.Qxf4 Qc6 2. = (0.16): 9.Qe1 Re8 10.Ng5 Bf5 11.Rb1 f6 12.Ne4 b6 13.Bd2 Qd7 14.f3 Na5 15.Bxd5+ Qxd5 |
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| Jul-17-08 | | zenpharaohs: After 24 ply Rybka values 14 ... Bf3 at -2.77 and continues 15 Qe3 Bxg2
16 f3 Bxf1
17 Rxf1 b5
18 Bb3 Nxb3
19 axb3 a5
20 Qe1 a4
21 bxa4 Rxa4
22 Bc1 f5
23 Ng3 Ra2
click for larger viewRybka values this as -3.82 at 22 ply. White has some of the most useless pieces I've seen in a while. |
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| Jul-17-08 | | Zorts: Nice theme. This trapping behind one's own doubled pawns should be covered more in tactics books. |
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| Jul-17-08 | | ray564k: Yourang thanks for replying but looking back I now see I was not only wrong, but also got the numbers mixed up as well! Amazing how looking back over something makes such a difference... |
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| Jul-17-08 | | kelvi: Amazing combination. Chess is fun :)!
Praveen Thipsay is a seven time winner of the National A championship which is the top chess championship in India. His best days were just before the emergence of Anand in the Indian chess scene, this games seems to be proof of his strength during those days of no computer-aid in preparation. |
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| Jul-18-08 | | TheaN: 5/5
I think... hm.
14....Bf3
This is NOT a Wednesday puzzle. I got to see a few seconds of it Wednesday itself and it never even got up to me. 15.gxf3
I'll leave the variations, as the variations do win: if within 50 moves. If the Queen protects herself from the pin with Qe3, Black only wins a crucial pawn with Bxg2. Happy finishing I guess. 15....Qh4
With Qh3 and Qg2‡. Take note that Kh1 with Rg1 doesn't work because of Qxf3† and Qxg2‡. I didn't look further, but I'm still giving the point, as this puzzle is way beyond Wednesday. If White were to play Qxf4, he'd be down B+N vs Q, and Black should only be wary of moves like, indeed, Bb4, winning another piece after Qh3? Qxf4 (which is actually the only move to avoid mate but it wins). But I didn't look that far: Black should be able to wrap up. |
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Kibitzing
sac: 14...Bf3