< Earlier Kibitzing · PAGE 173 OF 173 ·
|Jan-08-14|| ||MarkFinan: Okay. Now the..... has gone, what do you think of these comments about Pele and Messi that I found on a blog? I think Pele was overrated because of the things this guy says. I've thought it for years. I also think Messi/Maradona is the greatest player of all time. I can't seperate the two, lol. And for those who say Messi got went Messing at the last Wc he *still* made team of the tournament and he had 2-3 players man marking him! If he'd been given the freedom that Carlos Bilardo gave Maradona himself in 86 it may have been a different story, but no matter what happened last WC I think it was just destined to be Spains tournament. That group of players don't come along very often... |
<Being too young to have ever seen him in action, I've had to go off what i've been told and heard about him in regards to him being the greatest ever. I know he's most famous for winning 3 world cups, and for scoring over 1000 goals in his career, which by itself does make it sound like he is head and shoulders above anyone else to ever play the game.
However I was reading about him last week and there are a lot of people who feel his talent has been greatly exaggerated, based on a few things.
Firstly his goal scoring record, which apparantley stands at 1280 career goals. However, nearly 500 of these goals were in "unofficial or friendly matches", including matches against factory teams and local teams which would have been greatly inferior to Santos's quality level. If you remove these friendly matches, his goal total at Santos drops from 1088 to 643.
Secondly, despite winning three world cup medals, he did not play a major role in all of them. In his 1962 World Cup Win, he only played in two group stage games before picking up an injury, and did not play in the rest of the tournament. In addition, the team that won the 1970 world cup is often referred to as one of the greatest teams of all time, and while Pele was no doubt a massive component of that, he certainly wasn't the sole reason they won the world cup, as opposed to other world cup winning teams that have definitely relied on one star.
Thirdly, there wasn't a proper Brazilian national league until the 70's, and the majority of Pele's appearances and goals came in games in the Sao Paulo state league. I suppose our equivilent would be having a league for London based teams, while there would be some other strong teams, there would also be some minor @#$%ty teams.
Fourthly, the fact that he never played in Europe in a more competitive league. Do you think if he'd been playing in Europe he would have scored anywhere near the amount of goals he has? For all their brilliance, Ronaldo has only scored 292 goals in his career, while Messi has only scored 288. Each of these totals are less than half of Pele's total for Santos, although both still have a lot of years left in them.
In conclusion, i'm not trying to convince people one way or the other, really the point of this topic was to see other peoples opinion's on him, because at the same time the articles i've read about him could have been extremely biased the other way and if there's people that actually watched him that can testify to his brilliance, then I may be completely wrong.
If you do think he is overrated, who would you say is the best player of all time? Do you think Messi or Ronaldo have the potential to ever be called the greatest ever?
I'm 23 so was too young to be able to see Pele of Maradonna stut their stuff but something that I have heard about Pele is that as coverage of his matches in between world cups was obviously non existent back when he was playing he started to get a mythical status about him that further enhanced his reputation. Also a lot of what us the younger generation see of him is from youtube videos and where it all looks amazing as you say some of the quality of players he is up against jsut can not even begin to compare.
I also detest his arrogance these days. When talking about Messi and someone asks him if he could be the Greatest player of all time Pele replies come back to me when he scores 1200 goals and wins three world cups.> *some deleted as post too long*
Both these guys have some very good points for both arguments. Notice that one doesn't say to the other, "you a junkie coke head crack smoking British arrogant and I hate your guts!".
All the best, Meloncio.
|Jan-08-14|| ||valiant: <I don't know what you mean about Tottenham Hotspur having "left leaning fans".>|
I meant Adele & Bob Marley. Tottenham is a Labour Party stronghold ...
"Tottenham is represented by nine local council wards: Seven Sisters, Harringay, St Ann's, Tottenham Hale, Tottenham Green, White Hart Lane, West Green, Northumberland Park and Bruce Grove. Councillors in 8 of these wards represent the Labour Party, the ninth (Harringay) being represented by the Liberal Democrats."
|Jan-08-14|| ||Jim Bartle: Salman Rushdie is a Spurs fanatic. He wrote an article about his devotion in the New Yorker: http://www.newyorker.com/archive/19...|
|Jan-08-14|| ||Shams: <JB> Apropos of nothing, Rushdie also declared himself master strength...at "Angry Birds".|
|Jan-08-14|| ||KKDEREK: Spurs? Jesus..I would understand Doug Sahm lol
I liked NJ Nets . Had that grey jersey..But after went to Brooklin..
|Jan-09-14|| ||MarkFinan: <valiant: <I don't know what you mean about Tottenham Hotspur having "left leaning fans".>
I meant Adele & Bob Marley. Tottenham is a Labour Party stronghold ...|
"Tottenham is represented by nine local council wards: Seven Sisters, Harringay, St Ann's, Tottenham Hale, Tottenham Green, White Hart Lane, West Green, Northumberland Park and Bruce Grove. Councillors in 8 of these wards represent the Labour Party, the ninth (Harringay) being represented by the Liberal Democrats.">
Well Tottenham as a place is horrible but I don't see how that affects Tottenham Hotspur FC? It doesn't really matter!!
|Jan-13-14|| ||KKDEREK: Congratz to C. Ronaldo, well deserved!
Hi <meloncio> just found this nice article, a "list" of who would have won Fifa's Ballon D'or, since 1950. Some sure bets and as usual , some controversial(use google translator).
|Jan-13-14|| ||Jim Bartle: I see Pele was a four-time Globo de Oro winner, spread over ten years. That sort of makes <markfinan's> claim that Pele was not a great player (backed by a quote from a white-superiority website) is just silly.|
|Jan-13-14|| ||KKDEREK: yeah, a "myth" .|
|Jan-15-14|| ||MarkFinan: Neymar pocketed £35m out of that transfer fee Barcelona paid for him! Nice work if you can get it, eh? 😉|
|Jan-18-14|| ||MarkFinan: Did you see Messi's two comeback goals?? Was that second a bit special or what? 1,2,3,4 players and skipped over the keeper! He's not human, lol. |
|Jan-18-14|| ||harrylime: I love football.
When is Blatter gonna fook off and when is football gonna be rid of endemic corruption and injustice ?
Bring in 10 min sin bins and cam in the sky technology ..
Football needs to drag itself reluctantly into the 21st century ..
|Jan-18-14|| ||MarkFinan: Did you see FIFA team of the year, Hazzard? Wow! Blatter is a blatant anti premier league president, and the sooner he goes the better.. but guess who'll replace him?? Yup, that lovely Frenchman, Platini! And his thoughts on the premier league are well known too.. |
Don't expect a major tournament over here again in our lifetimes!
|Jan-18-14|| ||harrylime: Platini was dancing around the pitch waving a trophy in the air when 'fans' were taking in their last breaths on this earth .. |
And he's now at the top of the tree in football ... lol lol
YOU COULD'NT MAKE THIS UP . lol
|Jan-18-14|| ||MarkFinan: <harrylime: I love football.
When is Blatter gonna fook off and when is football gonna be rid of endemic corruption and injustice ?>|
<harrylime: Platini was dancing around the pitch waving a trophy in the air when 'fans' were taking in their last breaths on this earth ..>
Hazzard, your words move me.. I love it how you don't go way over the top, and type with your head and never the heart! Don't ever change, Hazzard lolol.
|Jan-18-14|| ||harrylime: <MarkFinan: <harrylime: I love football. When is Blatter gonna fook off and when is football gonna be rid of endemic corruption and injustice ?>
<harrylime: Platini was dancing around the pitch waving a trophy in the air when 'fans' were taking in their last breaths on this earth ..>|
Hazzard, your words move me.. I love it how you don't go way over the top, and type with your head and never the heart! Don't ever change, Hazzard lolol.>
|Jan-24-14|| ||MarkFinan: Barcelona president gone over the €35 to Neymar/Neymars parents "scandal!". On a footballing note he's doing a lot better at Barcelona than Bale is for Real so far. I'd still prefer Bale to Neymar though. I think Man City will beat Barcelona over 2 legs in the European Cup, but only if they keep Messi quiet. I know Barcelona have other fairly good players, just a bit lol, but I think they're on the wane. Man City are scoring for fun this season, over 100 so far I think, so I just think they'll score more goals than Barcelona over 2 legs .. And that's what it's all about ⚽⚽⚽⚽|
|Feb-09-14|| ||NakoSonorense: Tremendo chubasco en Sevilla!|
|Feb-09-14|| ||falso contacto: Se llovió todo. Lástima el resultado. La próxima.|
|Feb-09-14|| ||NakoSonorense: <fc> <Lástima el resultado.> ?|
Has de ser madridista!
|Feb-18-14|| ||MarkFinan: 3-1 to Man City tonight.. You heard it here first, lol 😃|
|Feb-18-14|| ||MarkFinan: I take that back! Peggy's playing Negrado, Fernandinhio, Toure and Silva together!? Brilliant for the neutral though, lol. I predict Messi aka the greatest man who ever kicked a ball will have a field day, to coin a phrase.. I know City are at home and that stadium gets loud with those Mancs but Messi interchanging with the midfield, dropping back and picking it up and *running* at city's defence!? 2-2 😃|
|Feb-18-14|| ||MarkFinan: I don't know where you are meloncio but I'm guessing it's a happy place seeing as you're not here, lol. Anyways, I didn't finish my last post! I was going to say <2-2....on aggregate AFTER!!!!!!!!! two legs>|
Sorry about that, sometimes I forget to finish my posts. Only last week I meant to shout "Mine forever x" to this chick, and ended up shouting "Mine For-Reh...!" and got arrested for Nazism and crimes against humanity, lol.
^^ Can just tell I'm having a cheeky gallon down the Redlol, haha 😃
|Feb-18-14|| ||MarkFinan: Messi?!? #rubbish! I know he scored a penalty but I *seriously* mean.. He was rubbish compared to his usual standards! I don't even know that Barca manager but why not just put the best player on the planet where he played Sanchez? He was busy, looked the best I ever seen him. I don't know who that lad who came on for Fabregas was but I bet his mum was thinking "Better go call Pedro in, it's bedtime!" lol. Looked *literally* no older than 13!|
Arghh. Bring back that Pele bloke! He'd have scored 9 goals in that strong Brazilian league against all those international players! LOL 😃
And every single time, without fail, that I see Roberto Martinez speak, all I hear is.. "No dollar for Pablo? I feed you to de pigz hombre, tooooo de pigz!?" haha. 😃
|Feb-20-14|| ||TheAlchemist: <meloncio> Damn you! :-) So close, but so far. A good game and objectively a great result, but Sevilla has an advantage now for the second leg.|
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